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Post by routew15 on Jul 14, 2014 10:31:28 GMT
(Thought it be a good idea to have a thread on this topic seeing as the topic is brought up in a lot of different threads)
It's been two years into the bridge closure on Palmerston Road and hopefully by 2015 the bridge will be open, but when it opens what will happen? There are many scenarios that could happen once the works on the bridge are done but the ones i think TfL may consider are
Option 1) Both Routes go back to there previous routing via Palmerston Road Option 2) Both Routes stay on their current routing (W15) via Blackhorse Road (W11) via Bell Corner Option 3) Route W15 returns to Palmerston Road and Route W11 stays via Bell Corner
It will be interesting to see everyone else's ideas/options and opinions.
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Post by snoggle on Jul 14, 2014 11:00:50 GMT
I do have another couple of options but I think they are very unlikely given the way TfL organise things.
1. Split the W11 into the W11 and the W21. The W11 would run via Palmerston Road on its old route. The W21 would run via Bell Corner on the temporary route. The service would be split 50% on each corridor giving a service via both routes albeit on a lower frequency on the unique legs. Passengers for Priory Court and Billet Road from the Central could use either route and run times would normally be similar so scheduling shouldn't be a problem. The only times it gets difficult are early mornings and Sunday evenings when the headway is low and splitting it would mean a bus every 40 or 60 minutes on the "unique" sections.
2. Split the W15 into the W15 and the W17. The W15 would run via Palmerston Road on its old route. The W17 would run via Blackhorse Road on the temporary route. The service would be split 50% on each corridor giving a service via both routes albeit on a lower frequency on the unique legs. There is a problem in that the run times would be different on the unique legs so you'd get an uneven headway from Cogan Avenue and Higham Hill. Again there is a question as to whether a lower frequency on the unique sections would be enough.
3. Don't restore any buses on Palmerston Road.
4. Split the W15 service at Walthamstow Central. Create a new service that runs both ways round in a loop.
Walthamstow Central - Palmerston Rd - Higham Hill - Cogan Av Est - Higham Hill - Forest Rd - Blackhorse Road - St James St - Walthamstow Central. This maintains the services on both sections and gives TfL the option to set an appropriate service level. The only problems with this would be stand capacity at the central for two more terminating services and the loss of through journeys across Walthamstow Central. This latter issue would probably be the killer problem with this proposal.
5. Run a new service Walthamstow Central - Palmerston Road - Higham Hill Rd - South Countess Rd - Palmerston Rd - Walthamtow Central. This gives a short service along Palmerston Road and wouldn't necessarily have to be very frequent but it would be extra cost over and above the W11 and W15 running as they do today.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 14, 2014 15:46:27 GMT
Although I agree with option 3 of route W15's proposal I would reroute the W11 via the temporary W15 route but let the W15 stay at palmerston road and reroute the W12 via hoe street forest road, palmerston road and back on to normal line of route. The W19 could also do this and terminate at coppermill lane and give the W12 the argall avenue terminus. I realise that they are optimistic and unlikely options but they could work. One thing is for sure is that the 123 and 158 both need more buses to cope with demand!
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Post by Deleted on Jul 18, 2014 19:11:06 GMT
If the Blackhorse Road diversion proves to be more useful than the palmerston road route the W15 may stay on its diversion which would mean that the W11 may return to Palmerston Road either way there has to be one route on that road as there are many passengers who did use their services to connect with Walthamstow High Street although I want reforms to the W12 and W19.
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Post by capitalomnibus on Sept 29, 2014 13:14:05 GMT
AFAIK the routes are due to return to Palmerston Road, there has been lots of complaints of the road closed and longer journey times and people down Palmerston Road denied access to buses. It was a very busy section.
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Post by snoggle on Nov 20, 2014 18:29:25 GMT
Although nothing has appeared in terms of consultation I suspect we might see some changes fairly soon.
The bridge has not yet reopened but Palmerston Road has been fully resurfaced by the council and the closed bus stops near the Palmerston pub have recently been rebuilt to the accessible standard. I can't see why this would have been done if there was no intention of returning buses to the road.
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Post by mondraker275 on Nov 21, 2014 7:35:00 GMT
Although nothing has appeared in terms of consultation I suspect we might see some changes fairly soon. The bridge has not yet reopened but Palmerston Road has been fully resurfaced by the council and the closed bus stops near the Palmerston pub have recently been rebuilt to the accessible standard. I can't see why this would have been done if there was no intention of returning buses to the road. I was told November back in Spring and so am not surprised and was told that the routes will return to normal. Therefore there is a high possibility that there will be no consultation. It is unlikely that they will have a consultation which could delay service on Palmerston Road by another 3 months especially with the Christmas Period coming up.
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Post by snoggle on Nov 21, 2014 10:20:57 GMT
Although nothing has appeared in terms of consultation I suspect we might see some changes fairly soon. The bridge has not yet reopened but Palmerston Road has been fully resurfaced by the council and the closed bus stops near the Palmerston pub have recently been rebuilt to the accessible standard. I can't see why this would have been done if there was no intention of returning buses to the road. I was told November back in Spring and so am not surprised and was told that the routes will return to normal. Therefore there is a high possibility that there will be no consultation. It is unlikely that they will have a consultation which could delay service on Palmerston Road by another 3 months especially with the Christmas Period coming up. I was told by Mike Weston (Buses MD) in a twitter session that there would be a consultation before any changes. I would not be astonished if what you've said turns out to be true. I will be massively disappointed to lose the W11 though.
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Post by mondraker275 on Nov 22, 2014 12:18:02 GMT
I was told November back in Spring and so am not surprised and was told that the routes will return to normal. Therefore there is a high possibility that there will be no consultation. It is unlikely that they will have a consultation which could delay service on Palmerston Road by another 3 months especially with the Christmas Period coming up. I was told by Mike Weston (Buses MD) in a twitter session that there would be a consultation before any changes. I would not be astonished if what you've said turns out to be true. I will be massively disappointed to lose the W11 though. Consultation becoming even more unlikely. Just noticed that W11 and W15 plates have been removed at 3 bus stops that I have seen. I have concluded that all the temporary bus stops have had their W11/W15 plates removed. The timetables have been kept. I think W11 and W15 could be on Palmerston Road this week or next weekend (my best guess). Sorry for all those who wanted the current diversions to be permanent, but in my opinion this is the best routing as it avoids Hoe Street (w11) and does no go the the long way round to Walthamstow (W15).
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Post by snoggle on Nov 22, 2014 12:30:40 GMT
I was told by Mike Weston (Buses MD) in a twitter session that there would be a consultation before any changes. I would not be astonished if what you've said turns out to be true. I will be massively disappointed to lose the W11 though. Consultation becoming even more unlikely. Just noticed that W11 and W15 plates have been removed at 3 bus stops that I have seen. I have concluded that all the temporary bus stops have had their W11/W15 plates removed. The timetables have been kept. I think W11 and W15 could be on Palmerston Road this week or next weekend (my best guess). Sorry for all those who wanted the current diversions to be permanent, but in my opinion this is the best routing as it avoids Hoe Street (w11) and does no go the the long way round to Walthamstow (W15). Time for very angry letter to be written to TfL then. Well a polite enquiry incorporating the Twitter exchange has been sent to TfL with a request for a response from Mike Weston and / or John Barry. Angry letter will follow if unacceptable reply comes back.
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Post by snoggle on Nov 23, 2014 10:49:38 GMT
Asked one of the regular drivers on the W11 this morning if he'd heard anything about a rerouting via Palmerston Road. He said that 1 December had been mentioned as a date but he thought that had been cancelled and a date in the New Year was more likely. There then followed the predictable "we'll be the last to be told, we'll only hear about it the day beforehand" remark. I said the route stickers had been removed from the stops and he said he hadn't noticed!!
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Post by routew15 on Nov 26, 2014 19:20:03 GMT
I think the route changes to the W15 and W11 have been around long enough to require a consultation, therefore I am not impressed by the fact that there hasn't been a consultation.
It seems that (espically with the Southbound W11) the improved Eastbound connection with the 123 and the Southbound connection with the 97/357 are appreciated. With the W15, the connection to/from Blackhorse Road Station and Higham Hill are really important to many commuters. While the W11's New 2012 rerouting has good connections, I think people will quickly forget it once they are wizzed along Palmerston Road which has less traffic in comparison to Hoe Street. While I do recognise the W15's New 2012 rerouting is long, it should be retained. I think their could be a lot of complaint to TfL about the overcrowding that is due to happen on the 158 once W15 is removed.
I often use the W15 from Blackhorse Road so I will be watching these changes very closely.
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Post by snoggle on Dec 2, 2014 16:48:35 GMT
Latest suggestion, from reliable sources, is that both routes revert to Palmerston Road as from 13 December 2014. No consultation going to undertaken either. If correct then I will be disappointed.
I have yet to receive a reply from TfL to my enquiry about the possible changes but we're still within the indicative response time for a reply.
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Post by mondraker275 on Dec 3, 2014 9:45:29 GMT
Latest suggestion, from reliable sources, is that both routes revert to Palmerston Road as from 13 December 2014. No consultation going to undertaken either. If correct then I will be disappointed. I have yet to receive a reply from TfL to my enquiry about the possible changes but we're still within the indicative response time for a reply. Just seen on LondonBusRoutes for 13 Dec. I think Palmerston Road could be opened sooner for general traffic as I think TfL just delaying the rerouting until the first available Saturday as they like that day for route changes for some reason. There was a giant sign outside Palmerston Road saying the road will open, but due to misted windows could not read the date.
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Post by snoggle on Dec 3, 2014 16:32:29 GMT
There was a giant sign outside Palmerston Road saying the road will open, but due to misted windows could not read the date. Went past earlier and the sign says the road fully reopens 1030 on 4/12/14 so only a few hours to go.
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