ZiyQ
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I am new here, but I have a lot to say about London's buses - perhaps too much sometimes...
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Post by ZiyQ on Apr 27, 2024 11:46:15 GMT
Definitely, especially considering how large the development is planned to be, and with Drumsheds already being an extremely busy venue when it is active. I expect some big bus changes to happen for the development (maybe not to the scale to what I had written). I reckon it will just be the W3 extended to Meridian Water and a swap of the W8/192 routings. The change that involved the 476 cut to Newington Green may be introduced as slightly amended, i don’t think TFL would hold back so easily. Probably an extension further north via Meridian Water while shorterning the western section, which would have the 73 already or a merge with another route from the North. I was thinking maybe the 41 extended up to Meridian Water via the 192 routing?? The main problem is that there aren't many places North that the 476 could further extend to, without reconverging with the A10 corridor. Chingford isn't an option either, as the 444 goes that direction, and northward towards Ponders End and Brimsdown may be too low frequency for the 476. There may be some merit in merging the 73 and 476 and extending it to Meridian Water (however it may make the route too long, and the high frequency of the 73 beyond Stoke Newington may be unnecessary), and converting the 444 to double deck operation and re-routing it through the Meridian Water development (the routings near North Middlesex Hospital should not be a problem as they are sometimes used for 144 diversions). I think the 41 was planned to be extended to Blackhorse Road, but a Meridian Water extension, as you had mentioned, would be a much better use of resources.
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Post by mondraker275 on Apr 27, 2024 17:04:17 GMT
As a W8 driver, I think your suggestion is excellent. Many new links would be created and increased capacity would be appreciated along the section to Tottenham Hale. I would also leave the W8 along Bounces Road...the 191 would suffer quote badly otherwise. I would also cut out the loop into the old IKEA Edmonton for reliability reasons. And all this would require a lot more buses but I'm sure there will be plenty of spare TE's laying around The W8 extension would definitely be great, and has been on the cards for TFL for a while now. I think the original plan was to have the W8 extended all the way to Walthamstow Central, via the 230's routing, but since the introduction of the SL1 and SL2, I don't think there is much stand space left in Walthamstow, so the originally planned further extension might not be happening anymore. What plans about W8 to Walthamstow? Did a quick search and found an FOI where TfL said there were no plans and then found a post in the 'new bus route ideas' thread that had a suggested extension to Walthamstow. We could be mixing realities here.
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Post by VMH2537 on Apr 27, 2024 17:23:33 GMT
The W8 extension would definitely be great, and has been on the cards for TFL for a while now. I think the original plan was to have the W8 extended all the way to Walthamstow Central, via the 230's routing, but since the introduction of the SL1 and SL2, I don't think there is much stand space left in Walthamstow, so the originally planned further extension might not be happening anymore. What plans about W8 to Walthamstow? Did a quick search and found an FOI where TfL said there were no plans and then found a post in the 'new bus route ideas' thread that had a suggested extension to Walthamstow. We could be mixing realities here. TfL has considered the idea of extending the W8 to Walthamstow in the past assuming it's already extended to Meridian Water. Though this is an old proposal from 2015 to bare in mind, proposals and ideas have likely changed since then. I highly doubt personally TfL will be willing to send another route down the corridor to Walthamstow with the SL1 already introduced despite how useful I'll personally find it. drive.google.com/file/d/199mEL_ed82FiDbmnJMJ-XOfxx1VvCWCk/view?usp=drivesdk
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ZiyQ
Cleaner
I am new here, but I have a lot to say about London's buses - perhaps too much sometimes...
Posts: 37
Member is Online
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Post by ZiyQ on Apr 27, 2024 20:08:53 GMT
The W8 extension would definitely be great, and has been on the cards for TFL for a while now. I think the original plan was to have the W8 extended all the way to Walthamstow Central, via the 230's routing, but since the introduction of the SL1 and SL2, I don't think there is much stand space left in Walthamstow, so the originally planned further extension might not be happening anymore. What plans about W8 to Walthamstow? Did a quick search and found an FOI where TfL said there were no plans and then found a post in the 'new bus route ideas' thread that had a suggested extension to Walthamstow. We could be mixing realities here. Though it directly hasn't been mentioned by TfL, there are actually a few cases of a W8 extension to Walthamstow being mentioned in the Meridian Water Masterplan. I should have some other old files mentioning it saved on my computer, but it's definitely being considered by TfL, even if the FOI may say it is not going ahead.
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Post by matthieu1221 on Apr 29, 2024 18:22:21 GMT
Definitely, especially considering how large the development is planned to be, and with Drumsheds already being an extremely busy venue when it is active. I expect some big bus changes to happen for the development (maybe not to the scale to what I had written). I reckon it will just be the W3 extended to Meridian Water and a swap of the W8/192 routings. The change that involved the 476 cut to Newington Green may be introduced as slightly amended, i don’t think TFL would hold back so easily. Probably an extension further north via Meridian Water while shorterning the western section, which would have the 73 already or a merge with another route from the North. I was thinking maybe the 41 extended up to Meridian Water via the 192 routing?? Cutting the 476 back further just risks evaporating more passengers (already that since the cutback to KX and it not stopping as per the consultation on Euston Road just outside of the station where it could help clear up 73 passengers... instead meaning it only fills up from Angel).
An extension of the 73 seems easiest imo, 1 in 2 can terminate at Stoke Newington which provides a 12m service beyond -- or if TfL feel the need to compensate for the loss of the 476's capacity, the 73 can notch back up to 5 mins, giving 10 mins beyond Stoke matching the current 476's frequency.
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ZiyQ
Cleaner
I am new here, but I have a lot to say about London's buses - perhaps too much sometimes...
Posts: 37
Member is Online
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Post by ZiyQ on Apr 29, 2024 19:40:14 GMT
I reckon it will just be the W3 extended to Meridian Water and a swap of the W8/192 routings. The change that involved the 476 cut to Newington Green may be introduced as slightly amended, i don’t think TFL would hold back so easily. Probably an extension further north via Meridian Water while shorterning the western section, which would have the 73 already or a merge with another route from the North. I was thinking maybe the 41 extended up to Meridian Water via the 192 routing?? Cutting the 476 back further just risks evaporating more passengers (already that since the cutback to KX and it not stopping as per the consultation on Euston Road just outside of the station where it could help clear up 73 passengers... instead meaning it only fills up from Angel).
An extension of the 73 seems easiest imo, 1 in 2 can terminate at Stoke Newington which provides a 12m service beyond -- or if TfL feel the need to compensate for the loss of the 476's capacity, the 73 can notch back up to 5 mins, giving 10 mins beyond Stoke matching the current 476's frequency.
A 73 extension would be ideal, and keeping half of the 73s at Stoke Newington is a good idea in my eyes, especially as the reliability should not suffer too much from the section North of Stoke Newington - it would be ideal to have both the merged 73 and W3 extended to Meridian Water, though that may not happen and would make the Northumberland Park bus stand defunct.
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Post by greg on Apr 29, 2024 19:50:19 GMT
I reckon it will just be the W3 extended to Meridian Water and a swap of the W8/192 routings. The change that involved the 476 cut to Newington Green may be introduced as slightly amended, i don’t think TFL would hold back so easily. Probably an extension further north via Meridian Water while shorterning the western section, which would have the 73 already or a merge with another route from the North. I was thinking maybe the 41 extended up to Meridian Water via the 192 routing?? Cutting the 476 back further just risks evaporating more passengers (already that since the cutback to KX and it not stopping as per the consultation on Euston Road just outside of the station where it could help clear up 73 passengers... instead meaning it only fills up from Angel).
An extension of the 73 seems easiest imo, 1 in 2 can terminate at Stoke Newington which provides a 12m service beyond -- or if TfL feel the need to compensate for the loss of the 476's capacity, the 73 can notch back up to 5 mins, giving 10 mins beyond Stoke matching the current 476's frequency.
I totally agree. The 476 carries nothing but air between Angel and King’s Cross and that’s because it starts journeys at Caledonian Road northbound and westbound doesn’t stop at the Kings Cross Station with the buses heading to Euston but the alighting point for buses to Holloway. Wasted resources there. A simple issue that could be resolved is rerouting the deadrun of the 476 via Midland Road to serve St Pancras International and Kings Cross Station northbound and it would pick up so much more, just as the 63 currently does. Where would you extend the 73 too? I think OXO to NP would be a very long route and quite unreliable seemingly with Hackney’s LTNs in Stamford Hill, Seven Sisters and South Tottenham. Perhaps a 476 from Islington Angel to Edmonton Green via Meridian Water instead of White Hart Lane from Scotland Green and a 73 from OXO to Stokey as usual
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ZiyQ
Cleaner
I am new here, but I have a lot to say about London's buses - perhaps too much sometimes...
Posts: 37
Member is Online
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Post by ZiyQ on Apr 30, 2024 18:06:01 GMT
Cutting the 476 back further just risks evaporating more passengers (already that since the cutback to KX and it not stopping as per the consultation on Euston Road just outside of the station where it could help clear up 73 passengers... instead meaning it only fills up from Angel).
An extension of the 73 seems easiest imo, 1 in 2 can terminate at Stoke Newington which provides a 12m service beyond -- or if TfL feel the need to compensate for the loss of the 476's capacity, the 73 can notch back up to 5 mins, giving 10 mins beyond Stoke matching the current 476's frequency.
I totally agree. The 476 carries nothing but air between Angel and King’s Cross and that’s because it starts journeys at Caledonian Road northbound and westbound doesn’t stop at the Kings Cross Station with the buses heading to Euston but the alighting point for buses to Holloway. Wasted resources there. A simple issue that could be resolved is rerouting the deadrun of the 476 via Midland Road to serve St Pancras International and Kings Cross Station northbound and it would pick up so much more, just as the 63 currently does. Where would you extend the 73 too? I think OXO to NP would be a very long route and quite unreliable seemingly with Hackney’s LTNs in Stamford Hill, Seven Sisters and South Tottenham. Perhaps a 476 from Islington Angel to Edmonton Green via Meridian Water instead of White Hart Lane from Scotland Green and a 73 from OXO to Stokey as usual Despite the numerous LTNs installed by Hackney North of Stoke Newington, the bus lanes on much of the A10 help reliability on its bus routes a lot. In my observations of the A10 in this section and having people I know driven the 76 along this section, the reliability of the A10 corridor North of Stoke Newington is quite good, and the 73 should not suffer if it were extended there. In regards to a 476 extension to Edmonton Green, I would question how many passengers would use the section between Meridian Water and Edmonton Green - the main way I see a through North-South link from Edmonton Green to Seven Sisters via Meridian Water is by using part of the A406, the entire length of Watermead Way, and via Tottenham Hale and Monument Way. A fast bus link parallel to the A10 corridor could prove quite useful and could achieve high levels of bus use, not only for people travelling to / from Meridian Water, but also through passengers wanting a faster link between the two areas. However, this route would only work well if appropriate bus priority measures are installed in Watermead Way (possibly a 24-hour Southbound bus lane with the central unused section becoming the Southbound road and the bus lane being where the existing Southbound road is). However a 476 extension along that corridor would eliminate most advantages of speed, if all current links to NP via Bruce Grove are to be retained.
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Post by mondraker275 on May 1, 2024 7:25:16 GMT
I totally agree. The 476 carries nothing but air between Angel and King’s Cross and that’s because it starts journeys at Caledonian Road northbound and westbound doesn’t stop at the Kings Cross Station with the buses heading to Euston but the alighting point for buses to Holloway. Wasted resources there. A simple issue that could be resolved is rerouting the deadrun of the 476 via Midland Road to serve St Pancras International and Kings Cross Station northbound and it would pick up so much more, just as the 63 currently does. Where would you extend the 73 too? I think OXO to NP would be a very long route and quite unreliable seemingly with Hackney’s LTNs in Stamford Hill, Seven Sisters and South Tottenham. Perhaps a 476 from Islington Angel to Edmonton Green via Meridian Water instead of White Hart Lane from Scotland Green and a 73 from OXO to Stokey as usual Despite the numerous LTNs installed by Hackney North of Stoke Newington, the bus lanes on much of the A10 help reliability on its bus routes a lot. In my observations of the A10 in this section and having people I know driven the 76 along this section, the reliability of the A10 corridor North of Stoke Newington is quite good, and the 73 should not suffer if it were extended there. In regards to a 476 extension to Edmonton Green, I would question how many passengers would use the section between Meridian Water and Edmonton Green - the main way I see a through North-South link from Edmonton Green to Seven Sisters via Meridian Water is by using part of the A406, the entire length of Watermead Way, and via Tottenham Hale and Monument Way. A fast bus link parallel to the A10 corridor could prove quite useful and could achieve high levels of bus use, not only for people travelling to / from Meridian Water, but also through passengers wanting a faster link between the two areas. However, this route would only work well if appropriate bus priority measures are installed in Watermead Way (possibly a 24-hour Southbound bus lane with the central unused section becoming the Southbound road and the bus lane being where the existing Southbound road is). However a 476 extension along that corridor would eliminate most advantages of speed, if all current links to NP via Bruce Grove are to be retained. I feel like Hackney is one of the better boroughs when it comes to bus priority and trying to keep them/add them. Slightly different from their neighbours in Waltham Forest.
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Post by matthieu1221 on May 1, 2024 17:08:03 GMT
Cutting the 476 back further just risks evaporating more passengers (already that since the cutback to KX and it not stopping as per the consultation on Euston Road just outside of the station where it could help clear up 73 passengers... instead meaning it only fills up from Angel).
An extension of the 73 seems easiest imo, 1 in 2 can terminate at Stoke Newington which provides a 12m service beyond -- or if TfL feel the need to compensate for the loss of the 476's capacity, the 73 can notch back up to 5 mins, giving 10 mins beyond Stoke matching the current 476's frequency.
I totally agree. The 476 carries nothing but air between Angel and King’s Cross and that’s because it starts journeys at Caledonian Road northbound and westbound doesn’t stop at the Kings Cross Station with the buses heading to Euston but the alighting point for buses to Holloway. Wasted resources there. A simple issue that could be resolved is rerouting the deadrun of the 476 via Midland Road to serve St Pancras International and Kings Cross Station northbound and it would pick up so much more, just as the 63 currently does. Where would you extend the 73 too? I think OXO to NP would be a very long route and quite unreliable seemingly with Hackney’s LTNs in Stamford Hill, Seven Sisters and South Tottenham. Perhaps a 476 from Islington Angel to Edmonton Green via Meridian Water instead of White Hart Lane from Scotland Green and a 73 from OXO to Stokey as usual Maybe an overlapping service could be considered for the 73? Oxford Circus <-> Stoke Newington & Euston <-> Meridian Water? Though I have very little hope in an even service being provided on the overlap. Personally I think though, the 73 wouldn't suffer with end to end services. I've been a regular on the 73 and 476 and they are remarkably reliable. Beyond Stoke Newington (discounting match days when I have no idea how bad things get) it's very good because of the bus lanes, the pinch point tends to be the congestion that sometimes occurs just north of Angel on Essex Road.
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Post by aaron1 on May 2, 2024 6:47:11 GMT
125 Have like a small extension to Colindale ASDA via 303 it's go give like Hendon and other parts of the route a link to ASDA
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Post by Busboy105 on May 2, 2024 11:45:03 GMT
125 Have like a small extension to Colindale ASDA via 303 it's go give like Hendon and other parts of the route a link to ASDA That would add an extra bus to a route that's been screwed over in terms of reliability in recent years. It is a good idea however
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Post by sdaniel on May 2, 2024 21:14:40 GMT
125 Have like a small extension to Colindale ASDA via 303 it's go give like Hendon and other parts of the route a link to ASDA Certainly agree with that extension.
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Post by bk10mfe on May 2, 2024 21:45:51 GMT
125 Have like a small extension to Colindale ASDA via 303 it's go give like Hendon and other parts of the route a link to ASDA That would add an extra bus to a route that's been screwed over in terms of reliability in recent years. It is a good idea however Could you possibly swap the 125 & 143 termini after Hendon, then extend the revised 143 to Colindale Asda, maybe with the route being decked too?
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Post by Busboy105 on May 3, 2024 6:17:16 GMT
That would add an extra bus to a route that's been screwed over in terms of reliability in recent years. It is a good idea however Could you possibly swap the 125 & 143 termini after Hendon, then extend the revised 143 to Colindale Asda, maybe with the route being decked too? That could work
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