|
Route 178
Sept 10, 2014 18:05:40 GMT
via mobile
Post by londontravel on Sept 10, 2014 18:05:40 GMT
Using this service regularly commuting to work is becoming a nightmare. Between 7:40 - 8:10 the buses are full because of thomas tallis school and myself and others on shooters hill rd and kidbrooke park rd see buses pass by as they can not let anyone on. As the traffic on route 89 is very heavy route 178 is used as it avoids it and people go to kidbrooke station. Is there any plans to provide extra capacity as I know cost is a factor but it can't cope .
|
|
|
Post by danorak on Sept 10, 2014 20:21:44 GMT
I'm not aware of any plans: there's still lobbying for it to be rerouted around Kidbrooke to serve a similar route to the B16 but that would make it even more indirect. Improvements may come as Kidbrooke Village grows, and pressure for a link from there to North Greenwich continues.
The 89 seems to be suffering badly at the moment: I wonder if this is due to the Lewisham roadworks, but I've had some pretty poor experiences with it lately.
|
|
|
Post by Mokujin on Sept 10, 2014 20:47:39 GMT
178 needs its frequency increased, it's mostly overcrowded just like the 47 and 225. Route 89 is mostly overcrowded in the mornings from my experiences considering that it serves Christ the King College and St Matthews Academy so the students all seem to use that.
The Lewisham works in general have made bus links really strainful to get - The Lewisham Station bus stops for 180, 199, 273, 380 and N89 and the Lewisham Police Station stop for Deptford and New Cross routes have all been closed in which people have to walk longer distances just be able to get a bus. Also not to mention the heavy traffic that occurs there every day. I've even noticed that the 261 has been quite poor recently aswell...
|
|
|
Post by vjaska on Sept 10, 2014 21:25:55 GMT
I'm not aware of any plans: there's still lobbying for it to be rerouted around Kidbrooke to serve a similar route to the B16 but that would make it even more indirect. Improvements may come as Kidbrooke Village grows, and pressure for a link from there to North Greenwich continues. The 89 seems to be suffering badly at the moment: I wonder if this is due to the Lewisham roadworks, but I've had some pretty poor experiences with it lately. I had a 20 minute wait for the 89 on Sunday morning and Lewisham was traffic free at the time.
|
|
|
Post by danorak on Sept 10, 2014 23:26:21 GMT
I'm not aware of any plans: there's still lobbying for it to be rerouted around Kidbrooke to serve a similar route to the B16 but that would make it even more indirect. Improvements may come as Kidbrooke Village grows, and pressure for a link from there to North Greenwich continues. The 89 seems to be suffering badly at the moment: I wonder if this is due to the Lewisham roadworks, but I've had some pretty poor experiences with it lately. I had a 20 minute wait for the 89 on Sunday morning and Lewisham was traffic free at the time. I wonder what the official figures are like for the 89: a friend of mine had a ridiculous wait in Bexleyheath the other Friday. Long gaps in service seem to be increasingly common.
|
|
|
Route 178
Sept 11, 2014 0:37:38 GMT
via mobile
Post by vjaska on Sept 11, 2014 0:37:38 GMT
I had a 20 minute wait for the 89 on Sunday morning and Lewisham was traffic free at the time. I wonder what the official figures are like for the 89: a friend of mine had a ridiculous wait in Bexleyheath the other Friday. Long gaps in service seem to be increasingly common. It's a shame to hear as when I used to use it far more regularly when it was PVL operated, it didn't run too bad.
|
|
|
Route 178
Sept 11, 2014 1:02:21 GMT
via mobile
Post by Nathan on Sept 11, 2014 1:02:21 GMT
178 needs its frequency increased, it's mostly overcrowded just like the 47 and 225. Route 89 is mostly overcrowded in the mornings from my experiences considering that it serves Christ the King College and St Matthews Academy so the students all seem to use that. The Lewisham works in general have made bus links really strainful to get - The Lewisham Station bus stops for 180, 199, 273, 380 and N89 and the Lewisham Police Station stop for Deptford and New Cross routes have all been closed in which people have to walk longer distances just be able to get a bus. Also not to mention the heavy traffic that occurs there every day. I've even noticed that the 261 has been quite poor recently aswell... The 180 bus stop being closed is an annoying one for me. Whenever I'm coming from Charlton, I always have to get off and walk through Tesco to get to the station to get my bus home. The crowded buses on the 54, 89, and 108 has been like that for years. And because so many people only go a few stops, there's not space downstairs. But, I have an idea for that which I'll be putting in another thread...
|
|
|
Post by eggmiester on Sept 11, 2014 1:43:51 GMT
I'm not aware of any plans: there's still lobbying for it to be rerouted around Kidbrooke to serve a similar route to the B16 but that would make it even more indirect. Improvements may come as Kidbrooke Village grows, and pressure for a link from there to North Greenwich continues. The 89 seems to be suffering badly at the moment: I wonder if this is due to the Lewisham roadworks, but I've had some pretty poor experiences with it lately. I had a 20 minute wait for the 89 on Sunday morning and Lewisham was traffic free at the time. You must have just missed one then as the 89 has a 20 min road all day on Sundays. All routes serving Lewisham are suffering due to the Lewisham Gateway works. We as operators are just having to try out best to maintain services in the area reporting all serious delays to tfl as they happen with the hope of some kind of resolution as the project continues. Having both driven and controlled route 89 in recent times, I can. Vouch that it does have a poor schedule, however the route is due to enter its PAP (Primary Assessment Period) this month so watch this space....
|
|
|
Post by snoggle on Sept 11, 2014 8:25:16 GMT
Using this service regularly commuting to work is becoming a nightmare. Between 7:40 - 8:10 the buses are full because of thomas tallis school and myself and others on shooters hill rd and kidbrooke park rd see buses pass by as they can not let anyone on. As the traffic on route 89 is very heavy route 178 is used as it avoids it and people go to kidbrooke station. Is there any plans to provide extra capacity as I know cost is a factor but it can't cope . I am not denying your experience of crowding at the height of the AM peak. I doubt TfL will be doing much to the 178 as its patronage is lower now than it was 7 years ago. It's had declining patronage for several years. I assume TfL have taken a look at bus services at Kidbrooke in the context of the estate's redevelopment and rerouting proposals. No proposals for extra buses emerged as part of that exercise.
|
|
|
Post by danorak on Sept 11, 2014 8:49:30 GMT
Using this service regularly commuting to work is becoming a nightmare. Between 7:40 - 8:10 the buses are full because of thomas tallis school and myself and others on shooters hill rd and kidbrooke park rd see buses pass by as they can not let anyone on. As the traffic on route 89 is very heavy route 178 is used as it avoids it and people go to kidbrooke station. Is there any plans to provide extra capacity as I know cost is a factor but it can't cope . I am not denying your experience of crowding at the height of the AM peak. I doubt TfL will be doing much to the 178 as its patronage is lower now than it was 7 years ago. It's had declining patronage for several years. I assume TfL have taken a look at bus services at Kidbrooke in the context of the estate's redevelopment and rerouting proposals. No proposals for extra buses emerged as part of that exercise. I think this is another case of where simple data can mislead. The reason for declining patronage on the 178 is because its main passenger source - the Ferrier Estate at Kidbrooke - has been progressively demolished over the last decade. Construction of the new estate going up in its place is ongoing so loadings should start to increase. Also the route has lost its Shrewsbury Lane section to the 244, and subsequently lost the Nightingale Vale section. So I don't think historical data tells us much about future loadings in this case, except perhaps what we might expect when the new estate is finished. Were loadings to increase on the 178 as the estate goes up, there is now the option to use double deckers.
|
|
|
Route 178
Sept 11, 2014 9:21:25 GMT
via mobile
Post by Nathan on Sept 11, 2014 9:21:25 GMT
I had a 20 minute wait for the 89 on Sunday morning and Lewisham was traffic free at the time. You must have just missed one then as the 89 has a 20 min road all day on Sundays. All routes serving Lewisham are suffering due to the Lewisham Gateway works. We as operators are just having to try out best to maintain services in the area reporting all serious delays to tfl as they happen with the hope of some kind of resolution as the project continues. Having both driven and controlled route 89 in recent times, I can. Vouch that it does have a poor schedule, however the route is due to enter its PAP (Primary Assessment Period) this month so watch this space.... Quick question: I know this is off topic, but what about the 180? I had to wait 40 mins at Thamesmead East, Yarnton Way for a bus going towards Lewisham. That can't be the fault of the Lewisham Gateway works, can it?
|
|
|
Post by danorak on Sept 11, 2014 10:01:36 GMT
Apologies for perpetuating the drift off topic, but if I'm interpreting the performance reports correctly, the 89 has not been meeting its targets. However, the 486, which parallels the 89 over the lengthy Bexleyheath to Baker Road stretch looks to be performing well which would seem to bear out the problem being at the Lewisham end. I wondered whether it might help if the 89 was trimmed back to Bexleyheath and the 486 extended to Slade Green in its place. Lewisham and Blackheath are easily reached by train from Slade Green and Barnehurst so few passengers would be adversely affected, given that the 486 already duplicates the 89 over so much of its route.
Now back to the 178....
|
|
|
Post by snoggle on Sept 11, 2014 12:04:25 GMT
I am not denying your experience of crowding at the height of the AM peak. I doubt TfL will be doing much to the 178 as its patronage is lower now than it was 7 years ago. It's had declining patronage for several years. I assume TfL have taken a look at bus services at Kidbrooke in the context of the estate's redevelopment and rerouting proposals. No proposals for extra buses emerged as part of that exercise. I think this is another case of where simple data can mislead. The reason for declining patronage on the 178 is because its main passenger source - the Ferrier Estate at Kidbrooke - has been progressively demolished over the last decade. Construction of the new estate going up in its place is ongoing so loadings should start to increase. Also the route has lost its Shrewsbury Lane section to the 244, and subsequently lost the Nightingale Vale section. So I don't think historical data tells us much about future loadings in this case, except perhaps what we might expect when the new estate is finished. Were loadings to increase on the 178 as the estate goes up, there is now the option to use double deckers. Hang on a minute. I was not making a forecast nor did I deny there was crowding at the height of the peak. I agree the redeveloped estate *may* bring about increased ridership but there is a significant surplus of capacity (albeit with a simplistic calculation). TfL will wait to see how ridership builds up before doing anything. It hasn't got the money to speculatively add capacity in the hope passengers turn up. The 343 at North Peckham shows us this - it only got fixed when capacity was completely exhausted and the locals were rioting.
|
|
|
Post by danorak on Sept 11, 2014 15:50:03 GMT
I think this is another case of where simple data can mislead. The reason for declining patronage on the 178 is because its main passenger source - the Ferrier Estate at Kidbrooke - has been progressively demolished over the last decade. Construction of the new estate going up in its place is ongoing so loadings should start to increase. Also the route has lost its Shrewsbury Lane section to the 244, and subsequently lost the Nightingale Vale section. So I don't think historical data tells us much about future loadings in this case, except perhaps what we might expect when the new estate is finished. Were loadings to increase on the 178 as the estate goes up, there is now the option to use double deckers. Hang on a minute. I was not making a forecast nor did I deny there was crowding at the height of the peak. I agree the redeveloped estate *may* bring about increased ridership but there is a significant surplus of capacity (albeit with a simplistic calculation). TfL will wait to see how ridership builds up before doing anything. It hasn't got the money to speculatively add capacity in the hope passengers turn up. The 343 at North Peckham shows us this - it only got fixed when capacity was completely exhausted and the locals were rioting. I wouldn't disagree that TfL won't just add capacity for the sake of it, and if there are improvements to Kidbrooke services, I would expect a service to North Greenwich to take priority over the 178. My comments are rooted in my long-held mistrust of raw data. I was simply noting that the last seven years don't tell us anything about services in Kidbrooke as the old Kidbrooke has gone. Relating to the original post, Thomas Tallis has been completely rebuilt on an adjacent site and is substantially larger than the old school. Meanwhile, Blackheath Bluecoats school has closed. School movements in the area have changed which may be a cause of the crowding. Anyway, I think we can both agree nothing will happen! Now, let's be friends....
|
|
|
Post by eggmiester on Sept 11, 2014 18:30:31 GMT
Back to the 89 briefly, you can't make comparisons between the 89 and 486 performance figures as they operate in differing traffic conditions, grated they share a common section, but that would be about it really.
The 486 is also a shorter route and has a very robust schedule, unlike the 89. It also has a higher PVR of 16 (89 is 15 mon to fri and 16 sat) and runs to a higher frequency (6 to 8 mins peak, 89 is 8 to 10 mins peak).
However I do think that there needs to be changes, extend the 486 to Slade Green is not a bad shout to be honest, curtail the 89 to BX and extend it to New Cross Gate via Deptford (N89 routing) PVR adjustments would be needed therefor thee would be a cost to such plans.
|
|