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Post by busaholic on Jan 8, 2019 21:51:00 GMT
I totally agree with these thoughts. Clearly the document was a week late, but what we do not know is if a junior was tasked with doing it, or a manager did it him/herself. Maybe the scheduled person was off sick and the person doing it had no training on what should be there so 'winged it' It does appear to have been rushed, and not checked (based on multiple detail errors and poor punctuation). To me it appears to be poor (or negligible) training and any fault lies with the Manager whose team owns the document as they clearly had no backup plan for timely production. I would agree with this. I expect this has been put together by someone holding the fort over the Christmas/New Year period who doesn't normally do it. Rather than boiling them in oil, perhaps some proper desk instructions are needed to ensure whoever ends up doing it in future knows precisely what is needed. Yes, my career with London Transport didn't end with the task I was given about ten days before Christmas in the early 70s to apportion the amount that the various Home Counties should be asked to pay LT for the privilege of having red bus routes gracing their towns and villages (with it having to be written and typed up by Christmas Eve) but the response from management a month later made it clear to me that my dreams of making a meaningful career there, on the bus side at least, were shot. The most wounding remark was that I should have insisted on spending six months on it! i was just a trainee manager there to do as I was told: what's more, in those more 'liberal' days, the week before Christmas was pub and party time in 55 Broadway, with the sole exception of muggins and a reluctant assistant (from memory, Barry Arnold's wife!). My resignation followed at the end of January - my colleagues all thought I was mad and over-reacting, but, as far as I was concerned, my dreams were over and I could no longer work for such an unfair organisation. I might just add I was given virtually no guidance on how costs should be apportioned between the County Councils and LT, so I used two different templates which produced two entirely different results! i then expected the managers and politicians to decide which (if either) they wished to proceed with. None of the details I quoted on routes, geography, operating hours, etc, was incorrect either, but politics intervened!
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Post by snoggle on Jan 8, 2019 21:58:20 GMT
I know exactly where you're coming from - I've been in places where whole teams have disappeared and the loss of corporate and institutional memory has been alarming. The effects aren't always visible until some way down the line. You need fresh blood in a team to stop it ossifying but you also need a bedrock of experience to spot mistakes. I'll never forget the day I was able to shoot some bright spark's idea by telling them 'the coroner said it was dangerous'. I've seen it multiple times in LT / TfL despite endless fine words from Human Resources about knowledge retention blah blah blah. I suspect part of the mess we are seeing with bus network changes is because certain key individuals left who were very knowledgeable and who also had all the right connections with key people in the bus companies and boroughs. Just to rub salt in the wounds Mike Brown made the following comment to Assembly Members at the TfL Budget Review meeting on Monday 7/1. I paraphrase but when explaining how they'd rationalised staffing in departments he cited the Planning departments. "We used to have a Tube department, a Rail department and a Bus department all planning their own bits of the network. They did this in a silo without any cogniscence of what other departments were doing. In fact the Bus planners had a positive incentive to ignore what happened on rail and tube. That's why no buses were cut when we opened the East London Line. Now we have one department led by Geoff Hobbs and they're now making sure the right resources are in the right place." Now I don't understand why Mike Brown keeps making crass remarks like this but this is another example where he has deliberately dissed the bus people. I do think he must have had one hell of a falling out with someone or even multiple people on the bus side at some point. Clearly he doesn't know his history because the bus network has been adjusted multiple times, often severely and extensively, when tube and rail routes have opened. 1968 is a key example we've touched on recently but also with the DLR, Jubilee Line, Heathrow Terminal 5 changes. There were also changes to several routes in Dalston and Hackney *before* the so called integrated planning team was established. If nothing else it just proves he really doesn't understand what the bus network is for in London and how it is perfectly feasible, and indeed sensible, to have buses and tubes parallel each other. Even Tyne and Wear did not remove every parallel bus route when it integrated bus and Metro services together and the network there was far less dense than in London and much less used. It's no wonder the bus network is under attack when the man at the top doesn't understand them. It is also telling that he never speaks when the Mayor's bus policy has to be defended. Heidi Alexander always does this if she's present. She did it again at the Budget review meeting.
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Post by busaholic on Jan 8, 2019 22:25:53 GMT
I know exactly where you're coming from - I've been in places where whole teams have disappeared and the loss of corporate and institutional memory has been alarming. The effects aren't always visible until some way down the line. You need fresh blood in a team to stop it ossifying but you also need a bedrock of experience to spot mistakes. I'll never forget the day I was able to shoot some bright spark's idea by telling them 'the coroner said it was dangerous'. In fact the Bus planners had a positive incentive to ignore what happened on rail and tube. That's why no buses were cut when we opened the East London Line. He's right - not one of those multiple bph through Rotherhithe Tunnel ever got cut back.
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Post by redbus on Jan 10, 2019 21:25:19 GMT
I know exactly where you're coming from - I've been in places where whole teams have disappeared and the loss of corporate and institutional memory has been alarming. The effects aren't always visible until some way down the line. You need fresh blood in a team to stop it ossifying but you also need a bedrock of experience to spot mistakes. I'll never forget the day I was able to shoot some bright spark's idea by telling them 'the coroner said it was dangerous'. I've seen it multiple times in LT / TfL despite endless fine words from Human Resources about knowledge retention blah blah blah. I suspect part of the mess we are seeing with bus network changes is because certain key individuals left who were very knowledgeable and who also had all the right connections with key people in the bus companies and boroughs. Just to rub salt in the wounds Mike Brown made the following comment to Assembly Members at the TfL Budget Review meeting on Monday 7/1. I paraphrase but when explaining how they'd rationalised staffing in departments he cited the Planning departments. "We used to have a Tube department, a Rail department and a Bus department all planning their own bits of the network. They did this in a silo without any cogniscence of what other departments were doing. In fact the Bus planners had a positive incentive to ignore what happened on rail and tube. That's why no buses were cut when we opened the East London Line. Now we have one department led by Geoff Hobbs and they're now making sure the right resources are in the right place." Now I don't understand why Mike Brown keeps making crass remarks like this but this is another example where he has deliberately dissed the bus people. I do think he must have had one hell of a falling out with someone or even multiple people on the bus side at some point. Clearly he doesn't know his history because the bus network has been adjusted multiple times, often severely and extensively, when tube and rail routes have opened. 1968 is a key example we've touched on recently but also with the DLR, Jubilee Line, Heathrow Terminal 5 changes. There were also changes to several routes in Dalston and Hackney *before* the so called integrated planning team was established. If nothing else it just proves he really doesn't understand what the bus network is for in London and how it is perfectly feasible, and indeed sensible, to have buses and tubes parallel each other. Even Tyne and Wear did not remove every parallel bus route when it integrated bus and Metro services together and the network there was far less dense than in London and much less used. It's no wonder the bus network is under attack when the man at the top doesn't understand them. It is also telling that he never speaks when the Mayor's bus policy has to be defended. Heidi Alexander always does this if she's present. She did it again at the Budget review meeting. It doesn't matter which industry you are in, but support from the top is crucial.
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Post by redbus on Jan 10, 2019 22:14:37 GMT
You won't know this but every bit of work in TfL has formal instructions and processes. I was involved in the early LU part of this work. It was expanded and extended considerably after I left. Therefore I would certainly expect there to be instructions in place for the production of a public facing document. Now that's not a guarantee of perfection from someone tasked with producing something for the first time but it should mean something better than what was appeared in publication. As Snowman said the real issue here is the manager not ensuring that activities were covered by competent people over a holiday period. I had to explain to my boss who was doing what in my absence before I was allowed out the door. Part of that was because my department was responsible for time critical processes including payment of contractors and production of key documents that were used by the LU Board. In short those things couldn't be allowed to go wrong or be late. It's just common sense but it's born out of experience. I remain of the view that allowing decades worth of experience to leave and be replaced by people in their 20s with barely a few year's experience is daft. Only 1 or 2 of those 20+ year olds will be sufficiently adept at their age to perform at the same level of older employees. They tend to be the genuine "high flyers" who have exceptional skills and abilities and there aren't many of them about. You can't expect their performance levels from all of their compatriots. I know exactly where you're coming from - I've been in places where whole teams have disappeared and the loss of corporate and institutional memory has been alarming. The effects aren't always visible until some way down the line. You need fresh blood in a team to stop it ossifying but you also need a bedrock of experience to spot mistakes. I'll never forget the day I was able to shoot some bright spark's idea by telling them 'the coroner said it was dangerous'. This type of result is only too typical from these sort of restructures. Experience is not properly valued.
The fortnightly update document is usually late these dates and sometimes does have quality issues. This type of thing does of course reflect on the organisation, but also so do the problems reported here with bus stop tiles, timetables and so on. If you cut an organisation as TfL has been cut and cull experienced staff, no one should be surprised that this is the result. The remaining staff are no doubt working very hard, trying their best and so on, but there are limits to what they can achieve in such circumstances.
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Post by snowman on Jan 15, 2019 11:41:50 GMT
New fortnightly bus changes document is now out content.tfl.gov.uk/tfl-permanent-bus-changes.pdfH13 (late update) additional peak journey at school times N277 (update) 3 extra early morning journeys 357 (update) changes near Hoe Street 258 journeys extended by 5 mins (+2 mins at weekend) 603 frequency changes 20 additional bus stop 56 (update) changes at Whipps Cross 228 Driver changes mid route replaced by changes at Maida Hill W12, W15, W16 and N55 stop changes N9 2 extra Sunday evening buses N134 changed to Potters Bar garage (same as 134)
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Post by ibus246 on Jan 15, 2019 11:48:08 GMT
New fortnightly bus changes document is now out content.tfl.gov.uk/tfl-permanent-bus-changes.pdfH13 (late update) additional peak journey at school times N277 (update) 3 extra early morning journeys 357 (update) changes near Hoe Street 258 journeys extended by 5 mins (+2 mins at weekend) 603 frequency changes 20 additional bus stop 56 (update) changes at Whipps Cross 228 Driver changes mid route replaced by changes at Maida Hill W12, W15, W16 and N55 stop changes N9 2 extra Sunday evening buses N134 changed to Potters Bar garage (same as 134) The jargon used is very enthusiast orientated. In fact much of it looks copied and pasted from consultation documents - “the route will have a new stop” why on earth would Joe and Jenny care if a route has transferred garage or has a “new duty schedule” - or am I missing the information at who this document is aimed at?
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Post by dennistas on Jan 15, 2019 11:50:06 GMT
New fortnightly bus changes document is now out content.tfl.gov.uk/tfl-permanent-bus-changes.pdfH13 (late update) additional peak journey at school times N277 (update) 3 extra early morning journeys 357 (update) changes near Hoe Street 258 journeys extended by 5 mins (+2 mins at weekend) 603 frequency changes 20 additional bus stop 56 (update) changes at Whipps Cross 228 Driver changes mid route replaced by changes at Maida Hill W12, W15, W16 and N55 stop changes N9 2 extra Sunday evening buses N134 changed to Potters Bar garage (same as 134) Shocking that TFL have mixed up the boroughs for some East London routes, like Brent and Hammersmith 😮
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Post by Deleted on Jan 15, 2019 13:01:22 GMT
Good to see RATP putting the running time back in that they took out from their tender win schedule.
Reminds me of Abellio paying for an additional 427 bus having taking the resource out for their tender win.
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Post by snoggle on Jan 15, 2019 13:19:35 GMT
New fortnightly bus changes document is now out content.tfl.gov.uk/tfl-permanent-bus-changes.pdfH13 (late update) additional peak journey at school times N277 (update) 3 extra early morning journeys 357 (update) changes near Hoe Street 258 journeys extended by 5 mins (+2 mins at weekend) 603 frequency changes 20 additional bus stop 56 (update) changes at Whipps Cross 228 Driver changes mid route replaced by changes at Maida Hill W12, W15, W16 and N55 stop changes N9 2 extra Sunday evening buses N134 changed to Potters Bar garage (same as 134) Dear god - still riddled with errors and mistakes. The W16 is not affected by the Whipps Cross changes as it doesn't go past the hospital "roundabout". It's the W19. The new junction comes into service on 17th Jan 2019 with the bus changes from the 19th. (source - W Forest council freebie paper)
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Post by rj131 on Jan 15, 2019 16:52:20 GMT
New fortnightly bus changes document is now out content.tfl.gov.uk/tfl-permanent-bus-changes.pdfH13 (late update) additional peak journey at school times N277 (update) 3 extra early morning journeys 357 (update) changes near Hoe Street 258 journeys extended by 5 mins (+2 mins at weekend) 603 frequency changes 20 additional bus stop 56 (update) changes at Whipps Cross 228 Driver changes mid route replaced by changes at Maida Hill W12, W15, W16 and N55 stop changes N9 2 extra Sunday evening buses N134 changed to Potters Bar garage (same as 134) Dear god - still riddled with errors and mistakes. The W16 is not affected by the Whipps Cross changes as it doesn't go past the hospital "roundabout". It's the W19. The new junction comes into service on 17th Jan 2019 with the bus changes from the 19th. (source - W Forest council freebie paper) Are these seemingly experienced people writing these sorts of documents for the bus network (like the sign that was put up in Debden about the H98 instead of the 20) the same people who do this sort of thing for the tube? I never see such sloppy mistakes on things to do with the tube, only the buses.
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Post by snoggle on Jan 16, 2019 0:37:05 GMT
Are these seemingly experienced people writing these sorts of documents for the bus network (like the sign that was put up in Debden about the H98 instead of the 20) the same people who do this sort of thing for the tube? I never see such sloppy mistakes on things to do with the tube, only the buses. The main difference is that very little happens to the Tube network on a weekly or fortnightly basis in terms of change. New timetables take years to put in place. New infrastructure takes even longer. Therefore public and stakeholder comms can be prepared over a longer time period and usually only announced *after* a change has happened. The bus network is different as changes can occur daily (emergency road works / events) and there is far more scope for changes to be made earlier or later because of the issues with the tendering process as well as road schemes (gyratory removals) that re-route services. It's clear to me that reorganisation has resulted in the loss of experienced staff and the end result is there for all to see.
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Post by arrivaarriva on Jan 16, 2019 15:01:57 GMT
228 change involves Tower Transit's first foray into Harlesden/Park Royal resulting in a change from Enviro 200 vehicles to Streetlife DF in addition to the changeover point change.
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Post by kmkcheng on Jan 16, 2019 15:06:27 GMT
228 change involves Tower Transit's first foray into Harlesden/Park Royal resulting in a change from Enviro 200 vehicles to Streetlife DF in addition to the changeover point change. Technically not the first time Tower Transit are in the Park Royal/Harlesden area. They did operate the 266 through here and it is also where their Atlas Road base was before RATP taking over the base.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 17, 2019 7:55:09 GMT
Good to see RATP putting the running time back in that they took out from their tender win schedule.
Reminds me of Abellio paying for an additional 427 bus having taking the resource out for their tender win.
And Metroline with the 120 😉
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