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Post by danorak on Jun 15, 2019 21:23:49 GMT
Something I had been wondering about the 53 change was how the new terminus would be described. The cut to Whitehall was technically to Trafalgar Square and it was described thus for a while until the Horse Guards description was adopted. Today, every 53 I have seen has displayed Lambeth North. Countdown has said County Hall. And the at-stop timetables say Lower Marsh. Of these, Lower Marsh is the most accurate as it is the first/last stop but it would be a rather esoteric blind. 'Lambeth North LOWER MARSH' would work I suppose. I say County Hall is better tbh. The reason why I say that is because it sounds more Central London-ish to me than Lambeth North. The name ‘Lambeth’ is associated with south London, not to mention it would probably give negative connotations to passengers. It would hark back to when it got curtailed from Whitehall before and passengers made enough of a fuss for TfL to restore it. Advertising as County Hall is a bit like advertising the now dead RV1’s terminus as ‘Covent Garden’ to make it look better and more attractive to customers imo. From what I can glean on Ian Armstrong's site, the intention is to display County Hall. However, for the passenger, the terminus is exactly the same as the Lambeth North one we had to put up with too often. Things are bad enough without trying to 'spin' destination blinds! The difference with the RV1 is that that did actually serve the Covent Garden area by having a stop in Russell Street (albeit in one direction only). The 53 doesn't get to County Hall if you're a passenger. Anyway, it'll be interesting to see how quickly the blinds get rolled out to bring it all into line. It would be useful if there could be an alighting point on the bus only bit of York Road - it would bring buses much closer to St Thomas' Hospital and make it easier to walk over Westminster Bridge. Incidentially, you didn't used to be able to turn right into Addington Street from there - there's a 'turn left' marking in the road. I assume this has been sorted.
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Post by george on Jun 15, 2019 21:26:13 GMT
Wasn't the 9 rerouted to speed up the journey? In my opinion going up to Trafalgar square makes it slower.
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Post by vjaska on Jun 15, 2019 21:40:55 GMT
I say County Hall is better tbh. The reason why I say that is because it sounds more Central London-ish to me than Lambeth North. The name ‘Lambeth’ is associated with south London, not to mention it would probably give negative connotations to passengers. It would hark back to when it got curtailed from Whitehall before and passengers made enough of a fuss for TfL to restore it. Advertising as County Hall is a bit like advertising the now dead RV1’s terminus as ‘Covent Garden’ to make it look better and more attractive to customers imo. From what I can glean on Ian Armstrong's site, the intention is to display County Hall. However, for the passenger, the terminus is exactly the same as the Lambeth North one we had to put up with too often. Things are bad enough without trying to 'spin' destination blinds! The difference with the RV1 is that that did actually serve the Covent Garden area by having a stop in Russell Street (albeit in one direction only). The 53 doesn't get to County Hall if you're a passenger. Anyway, it'll be interesting to see how quickly the blinds get rolled out to bring it all into line. It would be useful if there could be an alighting point on the bus only bit of York Road - it would bring buses much closer to St Thomas' Hospital and make it easier to walk over Westminster Bridge. Incidentially, you didn't used to be able to turn right into Addington Street from there - there's a 'turn left' marking in the road. I assume this has been sorted. I agree, County Hall isn't the alighting point after all so why display something it technically doesn't serve. I'm a bit perplexed about the negative connotations argument regarding showing Lambeth North because if thats the case, we can't show Peckham or Brixton on blinds in case people think they're heading into war zones full of guns, knifes & drugs - showing Lambeth North alongside Lower Marsh makes sense so that people have some sort of familiarity with the final destination. Like you, it would be great if the alighting point was much closer to the hospital - even if you can't turn right into Addington Street from York Road, why not run it along Lambeth Palace Road and let it stand at Lambeth Palace with the alighting point opposite the hospital - it's an absolutely bizarre decision that could of easily been sorted. Whilst your here, some pics of the leaflet I've been meaning to share www.flickr.com/photos/vjaska/48061833991/in/album-72157632471434893/www.flickr.com/photos/vjaska/48061941807/in/album-72157632471434893/www.flickr.com/photos/vjaska/48061848046/in/album-72157632471434893/www.flickr.com/photos/vjaska/48061898718/in/album-72157632471434893/
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Post by londontravel on Jun 15, 2019 22:28:10 GMT
From what I can glean on Ian Armstrong's site, the intention is to display County Hall. However, for the passenger, the terminus is exactly the same as the Lambeth North one we had to put up with too often. Things are bad enough without trying to 'spin' destination blinds! The difference with the RV1 is that that did actually serve the Covent Garden area by having a stop in Russell Street (albeit in one direction only). The 53 doesn't get to County Hall if you're a passenger. Anyway, it'll be interesting to see how quickly the blinds get rolled out to bring it all into line. It would be useful if there could be an alighting point on the bus only bit of York Road - it would bring buses much closer to St Thomas' Hospital and make it easier to walk over Westminster Bridge. Incidentially, you didn't used to be able to turn right into Addington Street from there - there's a 'turn left' marking in the road. I assume this has been sorted. I agree, County Hall isn't the alighting point after all so why display something it technically doesn't serve. I'm a bit perplexed about the negative connotations argument regarding showing Lambeth North because if thats the case, we can't show Peckham or Brixton on blinds in case people think they're heading into war zones full of guns, knifes & drugs - showing Lambeth North alongside Lower Marsh makes sense so that people have some sort of familiarity with the final destination. Like you, it would be great if the alighting point was much closer to the hospital - even if you can't turn right into Addington Street from York Road, why not run it along Lambeth Palace Road and let it stand at Lambeth Palace with the alighting point opposite the hospital - it's an absolutely bizarre decision that could of easily been sorted. Whilst your here, some pics of the leaflet I've been meaning to share www.flickr.com/photos/vjaska/48061833991/in/album-72157632471434893/www.flickr.com/photos/vjaska/48061941807/in/album-72157632471434893/www.flickr.com/photos/vjaska/48061848046/in/album-72157632471434893/www.flickr.com/photos/vjaska/48061898718/in/album-72157632471434893/I saw one bus on route 53 display County Hall this afternoon, but the next one had Lambeth North.
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Post by DT 11 on Jun 16, 2019 5:17:24 GMT
Yes I'd have gone for County Hall ibus and blinds on the 53. Same with I'd keep the blinds at Trafalgar Square on the 3. Whitehall, Horse Guards is more specific as it does not go to Trafalgar Square and terminates 1 stop before it. Lambeth North is better because it least it goes past the Station. The 53 doesn’t stop at County Hall so I wouldn’t agree. Really in would make sense to display “Waterloo, Lower Marsh”
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Post by redexpress on Jun 16, 2019 7:18:30 GMT
Looking at that leaflet, the wording for route 76 is a bit odd - "rerouted via St Paul's". It's been running past St Paul's for donkeys' years! Obviously "St Paul's" can only mean St Paul's Station to TfL...
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Post by rif153 on Jun 16, 2019 7:44:55 GMT
Wasn't the 9 rerouted to speed up the journey? In my opinion going up to Trafalgar square makes it slower. The 9 was rerouted via Piccadilly because TfL deemed there to be more demand along Piccadilly than Pall Mall. I got the 9 home on Friday and I counted five people getting on at Pall Mall. I liked the 9 going via Pall Mall to avoid some congestion, that was probably my favourite bit of the 9. TfL admitted rerouting the 9 would make it slower
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Post by rif153 on Jun 16, 2019 7:49:56 GMT
From what I can glean on Ian Armstrong's site, the intention is to display County Hall. However, for the passenger, the terminus is exactly the same as the Lambeth North one we had to put up with too often. Things are bad enough without trying to 'spin' destination blinds! The difference with the RV1 is that that did actually serve the Covent Garden area by having a stop in Russell Street (albeit in one direction only). The 53 doesn't get to County Hall if you're a passenger. Anyway, it'll be interesting to see how quickly the blinds get rolled out to bring it all into line. It would be useful if there could be an alighting point on the bus only bit of York Road - it would bring buses much closer to St Thomas' Hospital and make it easier to walk over Westminster Bridge. Incidentially, you didn't used to be able to turn right into Addington Street from there - there's a 'turn left' marking in the road. I assume this has been sorted. I agree, County Hall isn't the alighting point after all so why display something it technically doesn't serve. I'm a bit perplexed about the negative connotations argument regarding showing Lambeth North because if thats the case, we can't show Peckham or Brixton on blinds in case people think they're heading into war zones full of guns, knifes & drugs - showing Lambeth North alongside Lower Marsh makes sense so that people have some sort of familiarity with the final destination. Like you, it would be great if the alighting point was much closer to the hospital - even if you can't turn right into Addington Street from York Road, why not run it along Lambeth Palace Road and let it stand at Lambeth Palace with the alighting point opposite the hospital - it's an absolutely bizarre decision that could of easily been sorted. Whilst your here, some pics of the leaflet I've been meaning to share www.flickr.com/photos/vjaska/48061833991/in/album-72157632471434893/www.flickr.com/photos/vjaska/48061941807/in/album-72157632471434893/www.flickr.com/photos/vjaska/48061848046/in/album-72157632471434893/www.flickr.com/photos/vjaska/48061898718/in/album-72157632471434893/I agree with you the destination should not be advertised as County Hall. I think County Hall means nothing to many, especially young people, who don't know that the defunct County Hall was on the south side of Westminster Bridge, more people will be familliar with Lambeth North, its a tube station so that'll give most passengers some clarity over where they're being taken rather than County Hall. On a side not, where did you get that leaflet?
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Post by Volvo on Jun 16, 2019 7:55:30 GMT
I know I may get grilled for this but looking at the map of the now 45. Seeing as it is now cut so short and there are plenty of links between Brixton Hill and Elephant & Castle is there really a point of the current routing. I'm thinking perhaps they should have extended it further south?
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Post by rif153 on Jun 16, 2019 7:59:52 GMT
I know I may get grilled for this but looking at the map of the now 45. Seeing as it is now cut so short and there are plenty of links between Brixton Hill and Elephant & Castle is there really a point of the current routing. I'm thinking perhaps they should have extended it further south? The 45 does provide a unique Camberwell-Brixton Hill link. When I sampled the 45 end to end I found that the route was busy between Brixton Hill and Camberwell but once north of Camberwell passengers thinned out until there were only six people on the top deck leaving the Elephant. I do agree the 45 should be extended further south to connect new places to the Elephant
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Post by snowman on Jun 16, 2019 8:17:42 GMT
I agree with you the destination should not be advertised as County Hall. I think County Hall means nothing to many, especially young people, who don't know that the defunct County Hall was on the south side of Westminster Bridge, more people will be familliar with Lambeth North, its a tube station so that'll give most passengers some clarity over where they're being taken rather than County Hall. On a side not, where did you get that leaflet? It’s 33 years since abolition of GLC and the building (actually 3 buildings, the 4th the island annex was demolished) has not really used that name, so to use it as a destination is somewhere between misleading and nostalgic, either way not really accurate as head into 2020s. If a destination of Battersea Bridge south side is acceptable, I don’t see a problem with Westminster Bridge South side, but actually my preference is either use the name of the adjacent station, or a major current building (like a hospital) as a preferred destination (another bugbear is use of single road names, without a qualifier, especially when used for very long roads as too vague)
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Post by george on Jun 16, 2019 8:43:11 GMT
Wasn't the 9 rerouted to speed up the journey? In my opinion going up to Trafalgar square makes it slower. The 9 was rerouted via Piccadilly because TfL deemed there to be more demand along Piccadilly than Pall Mall. I got the 9 home on Friday and I counted five people getting on at Pall Mall. I liked the 9 going via Pall Mall to avoid some congestion, that was probably my favourite bit of the 9. TfL admitted rerouting the 9 would make it slower That's fair enough that they said it would make it slower. The 9 I was on laat night got turned at the last minute to Hyde Park Corner, probably because the traffic at Trafalgar Square was so bad. I liked the 9 going via Pall Mall as well and people could have easily of used the 6 and changed at Notting hill gate for a 23/9/10 onwards to Hammersmith.
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Post by vjaska on Jun 16, 2019 12:23:16 GMT
I know I may get grilled for this but looking at the map of the now 45. Seeing as it is now cut so short and there are plenty of links between Brixton Hill and Elephant & Castle is there really a point of the current routing. I'm thinking perhaps they should have extended it further south? Yes, the route is still very much needed as it provides an important link to my local hospital as well as linking the doctors surgery on Streatham Place with Kings College Hospital. I'd like a link to Wandsworth personally via Wandsworth Common but I can only keep dreaming. The option is extend it to Canada Water.
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Post by rif153 on Jun 16, 2019 18:26:10 GMT
The 9 was rerouted via Piccadilly because TfL deemed there to be more demand along Piccadilly than Pall Mall. I got the 9 home on Friday and I counted five people getting on at Pall Mall. I liked the 9 going via Pall Mall to avoid some congestion, that was probably my favourite bit of the 9. TfL admitted rerouting the 9 would make it slower That's fair enough that they said it would make it slower. The 9 I was on laat night got turned at the last minute to Hyde Park Corner, probably because the traffic at Trafalgar Square was so bad. I liked the 9 going via Pall Mall as well and people could have easily of used the 6 and changed at Notting hill gate for a 23/9/10 onwards to Hammersmith. Since when did the 6 go to Notting Hill Gate? I think you mean Hyde Park Corner
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Post by george on Jun 16, 2019 19:00:26 GMT
That's fair enough that they said it would make it slower. The 9 I was on laat night got turned at the last minute to Hyde Park Corner, probably because the traffic at Trafalgar Square was so bad. I liked the 9 going via Pall Mall as well and people could have easily of used the 6 and changed at Notting hill gate for a 23/9/10 onwards to Hammersmith. Since when did the 6 go to Notting Hill Gate? I think you mean Hyde Park Corner Mistake! I mean the 52 and I also mean High Street Ken as well. EDIT. Got all these routes totally mixed up. Forget all that I have said 😄
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