Route 339

[Deleted]

Often I see this route and it is very packed, particularly in Stratford City-Shadwell bit, not sure about the rest. What could be done? There are a number of issues with the obvious options.

Firstly, for those who don't know, the 339 is a route that runs Leytonstone-Shadwell via Stratford City using 9.3m and 9.6m E200s. The frequency is every 15 mins.

Obviously, the two options that come to mind are either to use longer buses or increase the frequency/PVR. However, there are some very tight turns on the route so using longer buses isn't practical. I believe 10.2m buses can just about handle it but they do struggle. With increasing the PVR, ths thing is, there is very little stand space at Shadwell and that road is quite narrow. Especially on the weekends, parked cars and 2-3 buses could easily block the road.

So, any suggestions?

[snoggle]

Nov 1, 2014 23:10:06 GMT @safwaanf1 said:

Often I see this route and it is very packed, particularly in Stratford City-Shadwell bit, not sure about the rest. What could be done? There are a number of issues with the obvious options.

Firstly, for those who don't know, the 339 is a route that runs Leytonstone-Shadwell via Stratford City using 9.3m and 9.6m E200s. The frequency is every 15 mins.

Obviously, the two options that come to mind are either to use longer buses or increase the frequency/PVR. However, there are some very tight turns on the route so using longer buses isn't practical. I believe 10.2m buses can just about handle it but they do struggle. With increasing the PVR, ths thing is, there is very little stand space at Shadwell and that road is quite narrow. Especially on the weekends, parked cars and 2-3 buses could easily block the road.

So, any suggestions?

Get rid of the Leytonstone - Stratford City bit. That can be covered by another route and should have been from day one.

Depending on the journey distribution I'd be tempted to lop the Mile End - Shadwell section off onto a standalone route. You can then deploy larger buses on the Stratford - Mile End section which is not quite as constrained as the Shadwell bit. My suggestion is not very efficient but as you are unlikely to be able to increase frequency by very much, because of the risk of buses being unable to pass each other on the very narrow sections, you need to sacrifice some efficiency if you want to raise capacity. As the Leytonstone section does not load heavily it would be pointless adding more buses to it as you're carting round fresh air. The 339 is a real problem route because demand is not uniformly distributed and the road network is poor. Diverting buses away from the back roads would not be popular because people like the local service - I've only ridden it once but it was clear there is a lot of that traffic. I doubt TfL would ever do what I suggest as they would argue that too many journeys would be broken - the traffic across Mile End is the crucial factor.

[Deleted]

I think their long term plan is to extend the 339 to whipps x hospital not cut it short

[routew15]

- 323 extended from Mile End to Shadwell
- Vehicle allocation changed from 10.2m to 9.6m 
- PVR increased from 4 to 6 
_{(Adding to Snoggle's idea)}

[Trident]

Nov 2, 2014 0:28:37 GMT snoggle said:

Nov 1, 2014 23:10:06 GMT @safwaanf1 said:

Often I see this route and it is very packed, particularly in Stratford City-Shadwell bit, not sure about the rest. What could be done? There are a number of issues with the obvious options.

Firstly, for those who don't know, the 339 is a route that runs Leytonstone-Shadwell via Stratford City using 9.3m and 9.6m E200s. The frequency is every 15 mins.

Obviously, the two options that come to mind are either to use longer buses or increase the frequency/PVR. However, there are some very tight turns on the route so using longer buses isn't practical. I believe 10.2m buses can just about handle it but they do struggle. With increasing the PVR, ths thing is, there is very little stand space at Shadwell and that road is quite narrow. Especially on the weekends, parked cars and 2-3 buses could easily block the road.

So, any suggestions?

Get rid of the Leytonstone - Stratford City bit. That can be covered by another route and should have been from day one.

Depending on the journey distribution I'd be tempted to lop the Mile End - Shadwell section off onto a standalone route. You can then deploy larger buses on the Stratford - Mile End section which is not quite as constrained as the Shadwell bit. My suggestion is not very efficient but as you are unlikely to be able to increase frequency by very much, because of the risk of buses being unable to pass each other on the very narrow sections, you need to sacrifice some efficiency if you want to raise capacity. As the Leytonstone section does not load heavily it would be pointless adding more buses to it as you're carting round fresh air. The 339 is a real problem route because demand is not uniformly distributed and the road network is poor. Diverting buses away from the back roads would not be popular because people like the local service - I've only ridden it once but it was clear there is a lot of that traffic. I doubt TfL would ever do what I suggest as they would argue that too many journeys would be broken - the traffic across Mile End is the crucial factor.

Having seen & used this route regularly since the extension I can vouch and say popularity between Leytonstone & Stratford City has grown. In addition, this route can become quite heavily used in the peaks and I don't think taking the 339 away will please people around Leytonstone, despite alternative routes.

[Deleted]

Extend the W14 from Leyton Asda to Stratford City. I've been saying this for ages. Would also provide links on the bus from South Woodford, Snaresbrook, Wanstead and Leytonstone. Sometimes the central line can be very unreliable. Would probably only need a PVR increase of 1 or the frequency could be increased further during peak times and have the 339 run from Stratford City to Shadwell.

[Deleted]

Nov 2, 2014 0:28:37 GMT snoggle said:

Nov 1, 2014 23:10:06 GMT @safwaanf1 said:

Often I see this route and it is very packed, particularly in Stratford City-Shadwell bit, not sure about the rest. What could be done? There are a number of issues with the obvious options.

Firstly, for those who don't know, the 339 is a route that runs Leytonstone-Shadwell via Stratford City using 9.3m and 9.6m E200s. The frequency is every 15 mins.

Obviously, the two options that come to mind are either to use longer buses or increase the frequency/PVR. However, there are some very tight turns on the route so using longer buses isn't practical. I believe 10.2m buses can just about handle it but they do struggle. With increasing the PVR, ths thing is, there is very little stand space at Shadwell and that road is quite narrow. Especially on the weekends, parked cars and 2-3 buses could easily block the road.

So, any suggestions?

Get rid of the Leytonstone - Stratford City bit. That can be covered by another route and should have been from day one.

Depending on the journey distribution I'd be tempted to lop the Mile End - Shadwell section off onto a standalone route. You can then deploy larger buses on the Stratford - Mile End section which is not quite as constrained as the Shadwell bit. My suggestion is not very efficient but as you are unlikely to be able to increase frequency by very much, because of the risk of buses being unable to pass each other on the very narrow sections, you need to sacrifice some efficiency if you want to raise capacity. As the Leytonstone section does not load heavily it would be pointless adding more buses to it as you're carting round fresh air. The 339 is a real problem route because demand is not uniformly distributed and the road network is poor. Diverting buses away from the back roads would not be popular because people like the local service - I've only ridden it once but it was clear there is a lot of that traffic. I doubt TfL would ever do what I suggest as they would argue that too many journeys would be broken - the traffic across Mile End is the crucial factor.

The thing is, the Shadwell-Bow link really needs to stay. Unless you split the route into Shadwell-Bow, Fish Island and Mile End-Leytonstone. But then that would increase congestion between Mile End and Bow Fish Island. And you don't want that.

[Deleted]

Nov 2, 2014 13:02:23 GMT routew15 said:

- 323 extended from Mile End to Shadwell
- Vehicle allocation changed from 10.2m to 9.6m 
- PVR increased from 4 to 6 
_{(Adding to Snoggle's idea)}

The thing there isn't enough space at Shadwell bus stand. That's one of the reasons why the PVR of the 339 can't really be increased.

[routew15]

Nov 2, 2014 17:00:53 GMT dannyl1989 said:

Extend the W14 from Leyton Asda to Stratford City. I've been saying this for ages. Would also provide links on the bus from South Woodford, Snaresbrook, Wanstead and Leytonstone. Sometimes the central line can be very unreliable. Would probably only need a PVR increase of 1 or the frequency could be increased further during peak times and have the 339 run from Stratford City to Shadwell.

The train is only 5 pence more (during off-peak, 15p more during peak) than the bus (W14) to travel the same distance (including travel to Stratford City)
Passengers before Leytonstone would not find this extension attractive because it is way to long and circuitous.
I think focus should be taken off of extending the W14 and W16 as it just won't work as good. 

[routew15]

Nov 2, 2014 23:15:30 GMT @safwaanf1 said:

Nov 2, 2014 13:02:23 GMT routew15 said:

- 323 extended from Mile End to Shadwell
- Vehicle allocation changed from 10.2m to 9.6m 
- PVR increased from 4 to 6 
_{(Adding to Snoggle's idea)}

The thing there isn't enough space at Shadwell bus stand. That's one of the reasons why the PVR of the 339 can't really be increased.

The idea original idea (that I had added on to) suggested removing the 339 and replacing it with a shorter route between Mile End and Shadwell. It also suggested introducing a route with more capacity to replace the rest of the 339 route (Mile End - Stratford City - Leytonstone and beyond) 
Just to clarify, I wasn't suggesting another route should stand at Shadwell alongside the 339. I was simply suggesting that the 323 could be a choice for a route between Shadwell and Mile End (then continuing to Canning Town).

[mondraker275]

339 does come for renewal soon, and so this route may be currently being analysed anyway. Definitely expect it to be extended to Whipps Cross considering the funding for the extension is available, and the Whipps Cross stand is being redeveloped soon pending Waltham Forest proposals and then (skipping) consultation and then implementation. Also it is a waste having it stand outside Leytonstone Station.
I dont see it that packed when I use it to get to Mile End from Leyton. Sometimes single decks always just look busy but I have not seen people get left behind for example. (getting left behind by a single deck reminds me of the days 212 was single deck). Having said that I can see usage continuing to grow.

On the 323, I would not be surprised if it is a candidate for the Silverlink crossing into Greenwich and so could be kept as it is for now.

[capitalomnibus]

One solution is make 357 permanent single deck and extend it to Stratford City, via the W15 route from Whipps Cross, then the current 339 route from Leytonstone.

[titan1mike]

In the ITT for the 339, there are no plans for it to be extended to Whipps Cross.

[snoggle]

Nov 9, 2014 21:30:14 GMT titan1mike said:

In the ITT for the 339, there are no plans for it to be extended to Whipps Cross.

Interesting but I'm not shocked to hear that. The plans to remodel Whipps Cross roundabout don't provide enough stand space for another route to terminate there.