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Post by Deleted on Nov 11, 2014 17:18:46 GMT
The main issue is that they provide unique links over a long distance. Therefore they attract both long, medium and short distance journies. Which bit of the 86 are you talking about? Is it east of Ilford because I rarely see overloaded 86s in Ilford or west thereof. The 25 tends to take more of a hit on this part of the corridor. If there was a view as to where the crowding is worst then you could perhaps consider extending something on from Ilford town centre part way towards Romford. Do you, for example, extend the 179 to Chadwell Heath? That would give another 5 bph in the peaks with empty buses starting part way along. The only issue is that the 179 is still not terribly reliable so it would need a full review of the schedule if it was to run a longer route. The only other option would be to extend the 147 east of Ilford. I would not recommend extending the already very long 123. Nearly all the other terminating routes in Ilford are single deckers. I couldn't see TfL wanting to run either the EL1 or EL2 across Ilford. I was talking about the whole route, one thing that I have realised is even when the 25 does parallel on Romford road, people still specifically wait for an 86 as it takes them into the bus station as opposed to the 25. I would say extending the 147 to around Goodmayes via the 86 should be some help as I doubt it is returning to Canning Rown anytime soon  147 Will be going back no later than Jan 15 - the only hold up is the removal of Tunnel machine Ellie at Victoria Dock Portal , this will be complete by Christmas. Back in the early 1990s the 147 used to run to Seven Kings on a Sunday and was also extended to Stratford via route 241. |
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Post by vjaska on Nov 11, 2014 18:50:37 GMT
The main issue is that they provide unique links over a long distance. Therefore they attract both long, medium and short distance journies. Which bit of the 86 are you talking about? Is it east of Ilford because I rarely see overloaded 86s in Ilford or west thereof. The 25 tends to take more of a hit on this part of the corridor. If there was a view as to where the crowding is worst then you could perhaps consider extending something on from Ilford town centre part way towards Romford. Do you, for example, extend the 179 to Chadwell Heath? That would give another 5 bph in the peaks with empty buses starting part way along. The only issue is that the 179 is still not terribly reliable so it would need a full review of the schedule if it was to run a longer route. The only other option would be to extend the 147 east of Ilford. I would not recommend extending the already very long 123. Nearly all the other terminating routes in Ilford are single deckers. I couldn't see TfL wanting to run either the EL1 or EL2 across Ilford. I was talking about the whole route, one thing that I have realised is even when the 25 does parallel on Romford road, people still specifically wait for an 86 as it takes them into the bus station as opposed to the 25. I would say extending the 147 to around Goodmayes via the 86 should be some help as I doubt it is returning to Canning Rown anytime soon In regards to the 86, I've seen that for myself everytime I've used the route. |
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Post by sid on Nov 11, 2014 21:39:50 GMT
From my random observations the 86 seems to struggle east of Ilford. I'd extend the 147 to Goodmayes and left to King George Hospital providing a useful new link. I would reroute the 62 (with double deckers) to Romford supporting that end of the 86 and extend the 368 to Marks Gate and maybe onto Collier Row or Chase Cross
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Post by Volvo on Nov 11, 2014 22:00:43 GMT
What sort of PVRs are you guys talking for the 5 pvr 31 and 86 pvr 30. I mean I thought those PVRs were high clearly not enough though lol.
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Post by Eastlondoner62 on Nov 12, 2014 6:53:38 GMT
From my random observations the 86 seems to struggle east of Ilford. I'd extend the 147 to Goodmayes and left to King George Hospital providing a useful new link. I would reroute the 62 (with double deckers) to Romford supporting that end of the 86 and extend the 368 to Marks Gate and maybe onto Collier Row or Chase Cross I fully support this idea, as London road definitely needs another route, and many people from a 62 to an 86 in Chadwell Heath. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 13, 2014 20:30:07 GMT
How many members of this forum remember the 193, running from Hornchurch to Barking via Ilford, withdrawn between Romford and Barking in 1982 ? Maybe its worth thinking about restoring the link to Barking. Why not extend the 238 to Becontree Heath, as previously thought of ?
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Post by wivenswold on Nov 14, 2014 17:16:14 GMT
Yep, I remember the old 193. Routemasters and all.
I think TfL dropped a clanger by getting rid of the 87. Back in the mid 80's they ran every 7-8 minutes between Barking & Becontree Heath with the 5 complimenting them with about 20 buses per hour. Then from East Ham to Canning Town the 5, 15 and 23 provided ample cover, until 1984 all were Routemasters which helped with dwell times. Considering the population has increased in East London and more people are using buses now, it seems strange that the 5 and 115 are expected to suffice.
I'd back NB4Ls on the 5 and 86 as an interim measure, or Bendies even. Shouldn't have got rid of them for political purposes, they had a job to do on some routes. An increased PVR and LT's would reduce dwell times and decrease bunching. [takes cover]
Do we think that TfL are too proud to look back at how these major route corridors used to be serviced or is this unfashionable area of London being overlooked once again?
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Post by Eastlondoner62 on Nov 14, 2014 17:38:19 GMT
Yep, I remember the old 193. Routemasters and all. I think TfL dropped a clanger by getting rid of the 87. Back in the mid 80's they ran every 7-8 minutes between Barking & Becontree Heath with the 5 complimenting them with about 20 buses per hour. Then from East Ham to Canning Town the 5, 15 and 23 provided ample cover, until 1984 all were Routemasters which helped with dwell times. Considering the population has increased in East London and more people are using buses now, it seems strange that the 5 and 115 are expected to suffice. I'd back NB4Ls on the 5 and 86 as an interim measure, or Bendies even. Shouldn't have got rid of them for political purposes, they had a job to do on some routes. An increased PVR and LT's would reduce dwell times and decrease bunching. [takes cover] Do we think that TfL are too proud to look back at how these major route corridors used to be serviced or is this unfashionable area of London being overlooked once again? I don't think having NBfLs on the 5 and 86 would be a smart move as they have a less capacity and I'm not even sure if they'll be able to do the southbound Western Road - Romford Station. Furthermore I will not accept having to see an LT everyday. I think a frequency increase is absolutely vital for 6 as a 6min headway just doesn't seem to work with the crowds it's getting. I still fully back the 62 to Romford idea as it will provide an alternative route between Barking and Romford via Becontree relieving the 5, and running via London Road and Chadwell Heath relieving the 86. |
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Post by smoothcriminal on Nov 14, 2014 18:10:24 GMT
Nbfl would be chaos on the 86 with the load's it carries as it's the same as the 25.
Loading at Stratford or anywhere down romford road would be a joke drivers just wouldn't be able to close the doors also there's not space at NS for these big white elephants.
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Post by wivenswold on Nov 15, 2014 14:51:15 GMT
Okay, how about this.
5 Increase frequency with additional Becontree Heath to Canning Town journeys.
86 Increase frequency.
115 Extend to Barking Garage.
205 Extend to Stratford.
238 Extend from Barking to Romford.
369 New route Chadwell Heath to Mansion House via Ilford, Stratford, Aldgate, Bank.
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Post by Eastlondoner62 on Nov 15, 2014 15:04:26 GMT
Okay, how about this. 5 Increase frequency with additional Becontree Heath to Canning Town journeys. 86 Increase frequency. 115 Extend to Barking Garage. 205 Extend to Stratford. 238 Extend from Barking to Romford. 369 New route Chadwell Heath to Mansion House via Ilford, Stratford, Aldgate, Bank. I don't think extending the 238 to Romford would be a wise move, Becontree Heath should be enough. I don't get why they haven't extended the 115, it's pretty short for a route. |
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Post by vjaska on Nov 16, 2014 0:44:07 GMT
Okay, how about this. 5 Increase frequency with additional Becontree Heath to Canning Town journeys. 86 Increase frequency. 115 Extend to Barking Garage. 205 Extend to Stratford. 238 Extend from Barking to Romford. 369 New route Chadwell Heath to Mansion House via Ilford, Stratford, Aldgate, Bank. Take out of the 369 and cut the 238 to Becontree Heath and its a yes from me. |
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Post by smoothcriminal on Nov 19, 2014 22:43:02 GMT
You know I was thinking an extension of the 425 to Forest gate police station would do a lot of good.
To counter the extension a bit id remove it from Homerton hospital in the peaks it takes ages to get round there.
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Post by Eastlondoner62 on Nov 20, 2014 18:32:43 GMT
You know I was thinking an extension of the 425 to Forest gate police station would do a lot of good. To counter the extension a bit id remove it from Homerton hospital in the peaks it takes ages to get round there. I don't think that extension would be enough, I would say Ilford but there is already a lack of Stand space there. |
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Post by snoggle on Nov 20, 2014 19:38:18 GMT
A question to the Mayor this week about route 5.
Bus Overcrowding in Barking and Dagenham
Question No: 2014/4327
John Biggs
Route 5 in B & D is massively overcrowded. I appreciate that there have been service increases but travel patterns in the borough have massively changed. It seems clear to me that a more fundamental service review, with an understanding of travel patterns and consideration of additional or extended services on the route is needed. Can you arrange for TfL in consultation with the Borough to explore this?
We'll see if TfL provide a response by the deadline of next Monday or whether this turns into a long wait for a response.
There are also other moans about
W4 bus being overcrowded
W19 bus being overcrowded (not sure if the comment relates to post the recent frequency increase or not)
the absence of shelters and seats at Wood Green (!!!! - one I commented about a few weeks ago)
The lack of buses through the Blackwall Tunnel (prompted by comparisons in the Silvertown Tunnel consultation)
Lack of buses from Wood Green to North Middlesex Hospital (seems the 444 apparently doesn't serve "Wood Green" and the 144 doesn't get close enough)
Lack of direct buses from Sutton to Epsom General Hospital given changes to referral patterns to local hospitals.
Growing number of questions about vehicle maintenance, crashes and TfL's oversight of operators. I'm beginning to spot a bit of a campaign emerging on this theme.
The bus map functionality on the TfL website not working properly.
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