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Post by Eastlondoner62 on Nov 10, 2014 19:06:00 GMT
One thing I have realized with these two routes is that they are always overcrowded, and under-bussed. The 86 especially day in and day out gets more and more miserable as the crowds on it increase day by day. Surely a route of that popularity and length needs to have a higher PVR? and then you have a similar situation with the 5. Sometimes the crowds on the 86 can lead to bunchings and eventually one will end up turned
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Post by vjaska on Nov 10, 2014 19:22:41 GMT
One thing I have realized with these two routes is that they are always overcrowded, and under-bussed. The 86 especially day in and day out gets more and more miserable as the crowds on it increase day by day. Surely a route of that popularity and length needs to have a higher PVR? and then you have a similar situation with the 5. Sometimes the crowds on the 86 can lead to bunchings and eventually one will end up turned Agree with this though I wonder if upping the PVR will solve the issue?
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Post by thesquirrels on Nov 10, 2014 19:23:01 GMT
I do whatever I can to avoid the 86 (i.e. I'll get a GA train!). It is basically the 109 of East London, and the 5 isn't much better.. but there isn't really an option B to avoid the 5 for much of it's route!
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Post by Eastlondoner62 on Nov 10, 2014 20:32:19 GMT
I think a PVR increase would be the best, as it would prevent huge crowds building up at bus stops, and it would probably keep the crowds safe, which would work on the 5. But then again with a route full of traffic such as the 86, anything could happen
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Post by joefrombow on Nov 10, 2014 21:28:18 GMT
Increase PVR's by a couple buses and put some NB4L's on both routes should speed up boarding and alighting on both routes .
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Post by vjaska on Nov 10, 2014 21:54:57 GMT
Increase PVR's by a couple buses and put some NB4L's on both routes should speed up boarding and alighting on both routes . No NBfL's please lol.
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Post by joefrombow on Nov 10, 2014 22:06:59 GMT
Increase PVR's by a couple buses and put some NB4L's on both routes should speed up boarding and alighting on both routes . No NBfL's please lol. :-) OK then increased PVR's and some B5LHs or E400H's I never used to like Hybrids having been on a couple lately I must say I am becoming a fan .
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Post by snoggle on Nov 10, 2014 22:40:52 GMT
One thing I have realized with these two routes is that they are always overcrowded, and under-bussed. The 86 especially day in and day out gets more and more miserable as the crowds on it increase day by day. Surely a route of that popularity and length needs to have a higher PVR? and then you have a similar situation with the 5. Sometimes the crowds on the 86 can lead to bunchings and eventually one will end up turned The main issue is that they provide unique links over a long distance. Therefore they attract both long, medium and short distance journies. Which bit of the 86 are you talking about? Is it east of Ilford because I rarely see overloaded 86s in Ilford or west thereof. The 25 tends to take more of a hit on this part of the corridor. If there was a view as to where the crowding is worst then you could perhaps consider extending something on from Ilford town centre part way towards Romford. Do you, for example, extend the 179 to Chadwell Heath? That would give another 5 bph in the peaks with empty buses starting part way along. The only issue is that the 179 is still not terribly reliable so it would need a full review of the schedule if it was to run a longer route. The only other option would be to extend the 147 east of Ilford. I would not recommend extending the already very long 123. Nearly all the other terminating routes in Ilford are single deckers. I couldn't see TfL wanting to run either the EL1 or EL2 across Ilford.
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Post by vjaska on Nov 10, 2014 23:12:04 GMT
One thing I have realized with these two routes is that they are always overcrowded, and under-bussed. The 86 especially day in and day out gets more and more miserable as the crowds on it increase day by day. Surely a route of that popularity and length needs to have a higher PVR? and then you have a similar situation with the 5. Sometimes the crowds on the 86 can lead to bunchings and eventually one will end up turned The main issue is that they provide unique links over a long distance. Therefore they attract both long, medium and short distance journies. Which bit of the 86 are you talking about? Is it east of Ilford because I rarely see overloaded 86s in Ilford or west thereof. The 25 tends to take more of a hit on this part of the corridor. If there was a view as to where the crowding is worst then you could perhaps consider extending something on from Ilford town centre part way towards Romford. Do you, for example, extend the 179 to Chadwell Heath? That would give another 5 bph in the peaks with empty buses starting part way along. The only issue is that the 179 is still not terribly reliable so it would need a full review of the schedule if it was to run a longer route. The only other option would be to extend the 147 east of Ilford. I would not recommend extending the already very long 123. Nearly all the other terminating routes in Ilford are single deckers. I couldn't see TfL wanting to run either the EL1 or EL2 across Ilford. d*mn, I was going to say extend either the EL1 or 2 west of Ilford as there is serious overcrowding between Stratford & Ilford on the 86. Even more daring but probably unwise would be to extend the EL1 to Stratford and the EL2 to either Becontree Heath or Chadwell Heath to help out the 86.
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Post by vjaska on Nov 10, 2014 23:13:08 GMT
:-) OK then increased PVR's and some B5LHs or E400H's I never used to like Hybrids having been on a couple lately I must say I am becoming a fan . Euro VI Enviro 400H's would be great upon renewal if retained but I'd leave the Tridents in place until then.
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Post by Hassaan on Nov 11, 2014 2:05:25 GMT
I do whatever I can to avoid the 86 (i.e. I'll get a GA train!). It is basically the 109 of East London, and the 5 isn't much better.. but there isn't really an option B to avoid the 5 for much of it's route! With the 5, what about the 115 between East Ham and Canning Town as an alternative? Or the 387 between Barking and Becontree?
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Post by thesquirrels on Nov 11, 2014 8:09:03 GMT
I do whatever I can to avoid the 86 (i.e. I'll get a GA train!). It is basically the 109 of East London, and the 5 isn't much better.. but there isn't really an option B to avoid the 5 for much of it's route! With the 5, what about the 115 between East Ham and Canning Town as an alternative? Or the 387 between Barking and Becontree? The 387 is handy if one appears, but if the 5 has fallen over then it isn't going to move many intending passengers by itself. Granted, the Barking Road corridor is well served all round but Canning Town to East Ham is only two and a half miles of a ten mile route - about the same as the stretch the 128 covers at the other end. So, yes, some routes exist to cover more localised trips, but any major distance is left to the 5. Or, hobsons choice, a trek to the district line...
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Post by Volvo on Nov 11, 2014 14:36:51 GMT
Increase PVR's by a couple buses and put some NB4L's on both routes should speed up boarding and alighting on both routes . Increase the pvr by a couple buses then use NBFLs? which have reduced capacity per bus compared to normal diesels or hybrids? plus they would be taking up extra garage space. May aswell leave the pvr as it is using 'normal' buses
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Post by ThinLizzy on Nov 11, 2014 15:34:46 GMT
I do whatever I can to avoid the 86 (i.e. I'll get a GA train!). It is basically the 109 of East London, and the 5 isn't much better.. but there isn't really an option B to avoid the 5 for much of it's route! With the 5, what about the 115 between East Ham and Canning Town as an alternative? Or the 387 between Barking and Becontree? The 387 is only good if you're travelling as far as Goodmayes Lane. The issues with the 5 stretch back to when the 87 was withdrawn and the 5 was extended to Romford, even in the days of the 87 passengers were left behind at stops. Looking back a bit further, the Longbridge Road corridor had the 5, 87, 162, 238 and 287. As a daily user of the 5/387, the route struggles even at 5.30 in the morning where it's not unusual for buses to leave people at stops along Wood Lane and Longbridge Road (I've been left behind at my stop more times than I can count.) One of the issues for the 5 is the growth in people reliant on cheap public transport between Becontree Heath and Barking- the 387 is starting to struggle to/from Barking Station in the peaks- even the N15 is standing room only by the time it reaches Faircross at 3.30am. Perhaps the best solution was the abandoned extension of the 238 to Becontree Heath.
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Post by Eastlondoner62 on Nov 11, 2014 16:34:50 GMT
One thing I have realized with these two routes is that they are always overcrowded, and under-bussed. The 86 especially day in and day out gets more and more miserable as the crowds on it increase day by day. Surely a route of that popularity and length needs to have a higher PVR? and then you have a similar situation with the 5. Sometimes the crowds on the 86 can lead to bunchings and eventually one will end up turned The main issue is that they provide unique links over a long distance. Therefore they attract both long, medium and short distance journies. Which bit of the 86 are you talking about? Is it east of Ilford because I rarely see overloaded 86s in Ilford or west thereof. The 25 tends to take more of a hit on this part of the corridor. If there was a view as to where the crowding is worst then you could perhaps consider extending something on from Ilford town centre part way towards Romford. Do you, for example, extend the 179 to Chadwell Heath? That would give another 5 bph in the peaks with empty buses starting part way along. The only issue is that the 179 is still not terribly reliable so it would need a full review of the schedule if it was to run a longer route. The only other option would be to extend the 147 east of Ilford. I would not recommend extending the already very long 123. Nearly all the other terminating routes in Ilford are single deckers. I couldn't see TfL wanting to run either the EL1 or EL2 across Ilford. I was talking about the whole route, one thing that I have realised is even when the 25 does parallel on Romford road, people still specifically wait for an 86 as it takes them into the bus station as opposed to the 25. I would say extending the 147 to around Goodmayes via the 86 should be some help as I doubt it is returning to Canning Rown anytime soon
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