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Post by intransit on Apr 2, 2015 2:30:44 GMT
Hi, I recently passed my test and have been sent to garage and then fast tracked through with a mentor(route learning, turns etc)......so I am looking for some advice.
While being mentored I found my self driving a bus (Enviro 200, single decker) that had a real harsh hissing sound from the nearside front wheel so I pointed this out to my mentor, at first he seemed concerned that it could be a puncture, after a brief moment, it was decided we would carry on and polish route learning on the way back to garage. For me, alarm bells started to ring as this was drilled into me from day one with air leaks?
Anyhow, we make it back to garage and the mentor runs into the engineers mess room, the engineer then comes out while the mentor disappears and gives me some old flannel that air leaks only get fixed when the bus goes in for a service, in other words, you drive them till they're fixed.
So, we head back out again on the same bus for more route learning with air leaks you can hear while stopped at lights etc, I brought the issue back up again about the air leaks in casual conversation and how it differs from what you are taught in prep school, he then spouted out that he could understand that I was a bit of a stickler but I had to accept that some buses have faults, for me that fault was a bit of a serious one.....
While browsing this forum I found 'categorisation of defects' post
Caught between a rock and a hard place.
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Post by intransit on Apr 2, 2015 2:59:25 GMT
I forgot to add a snippet from the 'categorization of defects'  |
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Post by intransit on Apr 2, 2015 4:00:42 GMT
OKAY, so I have hung around for an hour and so far.... 16 views to the post and no replies
I think everyone should have an opinion....
What would you do if were on earlies and it is your responsibility to take this bus out, how do you handle it?
Refuse it?
(sorry for being a bit green)
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Post by ServerKing on Apr 2, 2015 5:38:58 GMT
OP, Sorry for the late reply, I was working late. Please make sure you declare the defect to the relevant bodies at DVLA and fill out the T207 form  and have this sent off by your manager to the Tyre Inspectorate as soon as possible. My cousin who used to work for Red Rose failed to do this and got the sack   |
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Post by greeny253 on Apr 2, 2015 8:16:43 GMT
OP.. Welcome to the forum firstly. Glad to see the driver and vehicle section has been of help  Secondly, welcome to the bus industry. Unfortunately, whilst there are drivers like yourself that will point these things out, there are many more that will walk around a bus occasionally looking up and down and won't report it. Now with regards to your original defect - that hissing noise could have been anything from a leaky tyre or suspension airbag right up to a leak on a brake line. Either way, it's a fault that no matter how many times you report it, you'll find that vehicle keeps going out in service like it until one day when the fault isn't there. That is likely when the vehicle has gone in for service. Now my advice to you as a new driver would be to keep going with vehicle checks as you are. Make sure that you do a thorough first use check as the first driver as at the end of the day, you are signing a document to say the vehicle is fit for service. A document that if DVSA should find otherwise WILL be produced against you. With regards to PCV defects there are certain things that are a straight up no for service. This includes: - loose handrails. If even ONE of the handrails is loose, bus doesn't go out until it's fixed. - emergency exits. If the alarm doesn't sound when you open an emergency exit then get another bus. - low air alarms. If the low air buzzer does not sound then get another vehicle. Best way to test this is to pump the brakes with the engine off to drain the air then start the vehicle. - sharp edges. Anything that could cause injury or rip a passengers clothing should be rectified before you go out. - soiled seats/floor. If the vehicle has anything on the seats that could transfer to clothing or if there's vomit or the like on the floor (particularly on an ex night bus!) then it can't go out in service - tyres. If at ANY point during your first use check you find tyre cord exposed then you get another vehicle straight away. Tyre cord showing through the tyre wall is a big no no and if you get stopped it'll be you that's expected to explain it. If you check a vehicle and find anything you aren't happy with, in the first instance ask for a second opinion. If it's something you consider dangerous, ask for another bus. If your allocation supervisor gives you the answer "there's nothing wrong with that" in the second instance, offer him the vehicle defect sheet and ask him to sign it. Usually achieves the desired result! Lastly, don't feel pressured to keep to the time card. I found I used to get a lot less stressed (now a lorry driver) if I just went from A to B and back again without worrying whether I was late or not. If you're late, chances are you'll get turned. If not, get to the other end, take 5 minutes then go back. If your iBus controller ever calls and says that your the only late bus he's got then he's lying to you. There are a fair number of experienced drivers and controllers on these forums mate. If you ever have any questions feel free to post up and ask. |
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Post by eggmiester on Apr 2, 2015 10:14:16 GMT
An air leak could be from a number of sources as Greeny has mentioned, likes of Air Bag, Slow puncture (that would be noticeable though), door Rams, leak from Air and Brake Lines, even leaks from the brake caliper air seals (personally had that before). It could also be that the air system is over pressurising and it's the air exhauster valve that's releasing the excess air (if it didn't the air tanks would eventually explode).
A good way to tell if it's a major leak is if the air gauges on the dash start dropping and you get alarms or feel tales (lights) on the dash as a result of the leak.
These are just some of the areas I would be asking questions to drivers about when they report defects to me over the radio so I can provide as much info to the engineers as possible so effective action can be taken.
But at the end of the day it is your licence, you're the one that's out there driving the vehicle and if you think the air leak is excessive and or affecting the vehicles drivability then you need to tell the engineers and you rightly can refuse to drive the bus.
The ultimate question I always ask as a controller when such a defect is reported to me by a driver is 'is the vehicle, in your opinion, safe to drive?' There's only two answers to that question and when they say 'no' they're instructed to stay where they are and not move the vehicle until engineers have attended.
To end, I can't believe your mentor acted the way they did. In my opinion that slightly unprofessional! I used to be a mentor and if I was in that situation I would have returned the bus to the garage reported the fault and got another one.
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Post by rambo on Apr 2, 2015 21:03:36 GMT
Put everything on defect card.
And make a note in the back of your diary- date, veh number, and defect.
In the bus industry, if a bus moves, it will be sent out!
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Post by rambo on Apr 2, 2015 21:06:01 GMT
To end, I can't believe your mentor acted the way they did. In my opinion that slightly unprofessional! I used to be a mentor and if I was in that situation I would have returned the bus to the garage reported the fault and got another one.
I can believe it, mentors are under pressure from higher up................................................
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Post by intransit on Apr 2, 2015 22:33:57 GMT
OP.. Welcome to the forum firstly. Glad to see the driver and vehicle section has been of help Secondly, welcome to the bus industry. Unfortunately, whilst there are drivers like yourself that will point these things out, there are many more that will walk around a bus occasionally looking up and down and won't report it. Now with regards to your original defect - that hissing noise could have been anything from a leaky tyre or suspension airbag right up to a leak on a brake line. Either way, it's a fault that no matter how many times you report it, you'll find that vehicle keeps going out in service like it until one day when the fault isn't there. That is likely when the vehicle has gone in for service. Now my advice to you as a new driver would be to keep going with vehicle checks as you are. Make sure that you do a thorough first use check as the first driver as at the end of the day, you are signing a document to say the vehicle is fit for service. A document that if DVSA should find otherwise WILL be produced against you. With regards to PCV defects there are certain things that are a straight up no for service. This includes: - loose handrails. If even ONE of the handrails is loose, bus doesn't go out until it's fixed. - emergency exits. If the alarm doesn't sound when you open an emergency exit then get another bus. - low air alarms. If the low air buzzer does not sound then get another vehicle. Best way to test this is to pump the brakes with the engine off to drain the air then start the vehicle. - sharp edges. Anything that could cause injury or rip a passengers clothing should be rectified before you go out. - soiled seats/floor. If the vehicle has anything on the seats that could transfer to clothing or if there's vomit or the like on the floor (particularly on an ex night bus!) then it can't go out in service - tyres. If at ANY point during your first use check you find tyre cord exposed then you get another vehicle straight away. Tyre cord showing through the tyre wall is a big no no and if you get stopped it'll be you that's expected to explain it. If you check a vehicle and find anything you aren't happy with, in the first instance ask for a second opinion. If it's something you consider dangerous, ask for another bus. If your allocation supervisor gives you the answer "there's nothing wrong with that" in the second instance, offer him the vehicle defect sheet and ask him to sign it. Usually achieves the desired result! Lastly, don't feel pressured to keep to the time card. I found I used to get a lot less stressed (now a lorry driver) if I just went from A to B and back again without worrying whether I was late or not. If you're late, chances are you'll get turned. If not, get to the other end, take 5 minutes then go back. If your iBus controller ever calls and says that your the only late bus he's got then he's lying to you. There are a fair number of experienced drivers and controllers on these forums mate. If you ever have any questions feel free to post up and ask. An air leak could be from a number of sources as Greeny has mentioned, likes of Air Bag, Slow puncture (that would be noticeable though), door Rams, leak from Air and Brake Lines, even leaks from the brake caliper air seals (personally had that before). It could also be that the air system is over pressurising and it's the air exhauster valve that's releasing the excess air (if it didn't the air tanks would eventually explode). A good way to tell if it's a major leak is if the air gauges on the dash start dropping and you get alarms or feel tales (lights) on the dash as a result of the leak. These are just some of the areas I would be asking questions to drivers about when they report defects to me over the radio so I can provide as much info to the engineers as possible so effective action can be taken. But at the end of the day it is your licence, you're the one that's out there driving the vehicle and if you think the air leak is excessive and or affecting the vehicles drivability then you need to tell the engineers and you rightly can refuse to drive the bus. The ultimate question I always ask as a controller when such a defect is reported to me by a driver is 'is the vehicle, in your opinion, safe to drive?' There's only two answers to that question and when they say 'no' they're instructed to stay where they are and not move the vehicle until engineers have attended. To end, I can't believe your mentor acted the way they did. In my opinion that slightly unprofessional! I used to be a mentor and if I was in that situation I would have returned the bus to the garage reported the fault and got another one. Put everything on defect card. And make a note in the back of your diary- date, veh number, and defect. In the bus industry, if a bus moves, it will be sent out! To end, I can't believe your mentor acted the way they did. In my opinion that slightly unprofessional! I used to be a mentor and if I was in that situation I would have returned the bus to the garage reported the fault and got another one. I can believe it, mentors are under pressure from higher up................................................ Thanks for the welcome to the forum and bus industry and thanks for all the sound advice. A few of the buses I was mentored on also had loose upright hand grab rail/upright stanchions, these were loose in their ceiling fixing's with a movement of approx 1/2-1 inch rattling in their own fixings. I mentioned this to my mentor that it was a defect and his response was that "as long is it will not detach, it was fine" i.e loose was OKAY for service. I guess Rambo was right 'PRESSURE from ABOVE' I kinda sensed he was caught between a rock and hard place when I brought the defects up with him...hence why he called me a stickler....and I needed to MAN up when I didn't understand certain things, so yeah, you could say he was a unprofessional and you would be right.  I am starting to realise that these same defects will re-appear every day even after reporting them, so it is my job to keep reporting them to cover my own ass. |
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Post by rambo on Apr 3, 2015 6:46:02 GMT
And if the drivers seat is knackered, make sure you put it on the defect card!
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Post by sid on Apr 3, 2015 6:49:09 GMT
And if the drivers seat is knackered, make sure you put it on the defect card! They can often lead to back aches. |
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Post by greeny253 on Apr 3, 2015 8:05:19 GMT
With regards to the poles moving in their fixings, you're ok as long as it detaching from the fixings isn't imminent. Poles will rattle sure enough but one that's become detached shouldn't go out.
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Post by rambo on Apr 3, 2015 21:43:37 GMT
, so it is my job to keep reporting them to cover my own ass.
Thats the most important thing to remember!!!!!!!
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Post by rambo on Apr 8, 2015 19:33:18 GMT
And if the drivers seat is knackered, make sure you put it on the defect card! They can often lead to back aches. And back injuries, as I found out to my cost. Also cost GoAhead as it resulted in court action. |
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Post by sid on Apr 8, 2015 19:55:21 GMT
They can often lead to back aches. And back injuries, as I found out to my cost. Also cost GoAhead as it resulted in court action. I would say the drivers seat is one of the most important aspects of any vehicle and that if you can't sit comfortably then the vehicle is not fit for use. |
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