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Post by sid on Apr 24, 2015 10:16:44 GMT
I found his comments cheap and tacky, even including an expletive, and of course we all know that he would like to expand the TfL empire. South Eastern trains may not be perfect but I can't see how TfL could do any better given that much of the network is at full capacity. I agree that oyster should be extended to Dartford and possibly Swanley but on HS1 between St Pancras and Stratford? Surely that would be like expecting Virgin Trains to accommodate local passengers between Euston and Watford Junction? And it would appear that anybody can travel on LU, 'forget' to validate their oyster and then claim a refund when they touch out and get charged for an incomplete journey. The HS1 commitment is from South Eastern themselves so why the complete silence / lack of progress about it? I don't think South Eastern's network is full to capacity on evenings and Sundays when services could readily be doubled and longer trains run. I've read endless comments from people who rely on South Eastern who complain about inadequate evening services and short formation trains which are packed to capacity on Sunday afternoons. It doesn't take much to run extra off peak services to give people a reasonable service. The first thing LOROL are doing on West Anglia is to increase Sunday frequencies to match those on Saturdays. That's a decent first step. To be fair TfL are reflecting what the Mayor, commuters, London politicans and London businesses want - they want TfL to take on suburban services because they are not being run properly. TfL are there to do the Mayor's bidding and it has been Boris's policy since 2008 to take over suburban services. Therefore the Empire building accusation should be levelled at City Hall and politicians of all hues because all three main parties support the same policy. Also TfL have made no outrageous statements about peak services if they were to take on South Eastern. They have acknowledged that running extra trains would be very difficult and they could not "evict" longer distance trains from the tracks because access rights are determined independently. They have said they would buy extra trains to ensure peak trains run to the maximum feasible length so capacity is utilised as well as it could be. That's better than South Eastern manage because there has been no commitment from them or Government to buy extra trains despite years of growing patronage. I trust you have some experience / evidence to substantiate your remark about TfL processing refunds. It was in reference to Mr Hendys comment that if passengers make a mistake with their oyster on the tube then they will be refunded, how exactly does that work in practice?
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Post by Connor on Apr 24, 2015 10:24:59 GMT
Southeastern are due to receive 100 Class 377 trains from Southern/Thameslink. I imagine the cascade will only happen after all the 700's are in service, in around 3/4 years. Will they be additional or will South Eastern have to relinquish existing trains to cascade to electrification schemes elsewhere? Genuine question btw - I'm not fully up to speed with what is cascading where as the DfT keep changing things. Additional. I think their quote was that they would 'strengthen existing services'. By that I hope they aren't referring to 375 operated services...
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Post by snoggle on Apr 24, 2015 10:58:01 GMT
The HS1 commitment is from South Eastern themselves so why the complete silence / lack of progress about it? I don't think South Eastern's network is full to capacity on evenings and Sundays when services could readily be doubled and longer trains run. I've read endless comments from people who rely on South Eastern who complain about inadequate evening services and short formation trains which are packed to capacity on Sunday afternoons. It doesn't take much to run extra off peak services to give people a reasonable service. The first thing LOROL are doing on West Anglia is to increase Sunday frequencies to match those on Saturdays. That's a decent first step. To be fair TfL are reflecting what the Mayor, commuters, London politicans and London businesses want - they want TfL to take on suburban services because they are not being run properly. TfL are there to do the Mayor's bidding and it has been Boris's policy since 2008 to take over suburban services. Therefore the Empire building accusation should be levelled at City Hall and politicians of all hues because all three main parties support the same policy. Also TfL have made no outrageous statements about peak services if they were to take on South Eastern. They have acknowledged that running extra trains would be very difficult and they could not "evict" longer distance trains from the tracks because access rights are determined independently. They have said they would buy extra trains to ensure peak trains run to the maximum feasible length so capacity is utilised as well as it could be. That's better than South Eastern manage because there has been no commitment from them or Government to buy extra trains despite years of growing patronage. I trust you have some experience / evidence to substantiate your remark about TfL processing refunds. It was in reference to Mr Hendys comment that if passengers make a mistake with their oyster on the tube then they will be refunded, how exactly does that work in practice? It's the automatic refund process if you miss a touch in or touch out and TfL can ascertain a regular travel pattern. They will auto complete the missed validation, cancel any "standard fare" that's been charged and then charge you for whatever fare is due. Further if you have been charged a standard fare and TfL can't auto complete then they'll notify you. All this depends on you having a TfL Account linked to your Oyster Card or Contactless Payment Card. Clearly there may well be other circumstances where people have to call up and request a refund or to query their charges. Those processes are what I believe Mr Hendy is referring to. Clearly no TOC, other than Overground, can handle Oyster refunds because they've refused to modify their ticket office equipment to handle them and no passenger machine can do it. At LU's upgraded machines you can get a refund of your balance if it's less than £10 and your Oyster Card is also cancelled as part of the transaction. That's likely to be useful for visitors who don't wish to retain their card.
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Post by sid on Apr 24, 2015 12:43:55 GMT
Mr Hendy seems to be suggesting that if I make the mistake of not touching my oyster in at the start to my journey then it won't be a problem.
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Post by Hassaan on Apr 24, 2015 14:52:18 GMT
Will they be additional or will South Eastern have to relinquish existing trains to cascade to electrification schemes elsewhere? Genuine question btw - I'm not fully up to speed with what is cascading where as the DfT keep changing things. Additional. I think their quote was that they would 'strengthen existing services'. By that I hope they aren't referring to 375 operated services... I seem to recall it was 25 units of the original Class 377/1 batch that are getting transferred, and as they're all 4-car units then the "100" number mentioned earlier means 100 coaches = 25 units.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 24, 2015 18:43:09 GMT
Additional. I think their quote was that they would 'strengthen existing services'. By that I hope they aren't referring to 375 operated services... I seem to recall it was 25 units of the original Class 377/1 batch that are getting transferred, and as they're all 4-car units then the "100" number mentioned earlier means 100 coaches = 25 units. I believe East Midlands is due to receive the rest of the displaced 377s
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Post by Connor on Apr 24, 2015 19:40:41 GMT
I seem to recall it was 25 units of the original Class 377/1 batch that are getting transferred, and as they're all 4-car units then the "100" number mentioned earlier means 100 coaches = 25 units. I believe East Midlands is due to receive the rest of the displaced 377s Not heard that myself, unless serious electrification is on the cards; they have an all diesel fleet of trains... TSGN will receive some (21?) 377s for Cambridge/Kings Lynn services and 21 of the 40 365 (as well as the 387s) will move over to First Great Western after GWML is electrified.
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Post by DT 11 on Apr 24, 2015 19:47:03 GMT
I really hope TfL take over the Southeastern franchise as going by the number of times I've used London Overground, it will improve massively. I can't fault London Overground operation one bit. Have to agree with you on Southeastern, there trains always smell rancid
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Post by snoggle on Apr 24, 2015 19:56:46 GMT
I believe East Midlands is due to receive the rest of the displaced 377s Not heard that myself, unless serious electrification is on the cards; they have an all diesel fleet of trains... TSGN will receive some (21?) 377s for Cambridge/Kings Lynn services and 21 of the 40 365 (as well as the 387s) will move over to First Great Western after GWML is electrified. EMT will need EMUs for services as the Midland Main Line is electrified over the next few years. I can see EMUs being deployed on the slower services to Kettering and Corby. I believe there was a suggestion at one point that the stock from the East Coast route would move over to the MML for the faster services to Leicester, Nottingham, Derby and Sheffield. If they don't then a new fleet of trains will be required fairly soon.
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Post by sid on Apr 25, 2015 9:27:35 GMT
I really hope TfL take over the Southeastern franchise as going by the number of times I've used London Overground, it will improve massively. I can't fault London Overground operation one bit. Have to agree with you on Southeastern, there trains always smell rancid I think I'd be inclined to see how they get on with West Anglia before letting them loose on something as complex as the Southeastern network. Their only experience of anything similar is the Met Line and they haven't endeared themselves to many users there by removing off peak fast services apparently in the interests of standardization. I don't think all stops from Charing Cross to Gillingham for example will go down too well
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Post by Deleted on Apr 25, 2015 16:05:57 GMT
I believe East Midlands is due to receive the rest of the displaced 377s Not heard that myself, unless serious electrification is on the cards; they have an all diesel fleet of trains... TSGN will receive some (21?) 377s for Cambridge/Kings Lynn services and 21 of the 40 365 (as well as the 387s) will move over to First Great Western after GWML is electrified. There's plans for quite extensive electrification and cascades relating to such - stoppers will likely be 377s or 387s while long distance services will be 91 + Mk4s from the ECML. There's a cascade document released recently that documents the very complicated shuffling relating to electrification and removal of Pacers and eventually 153s
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Post by snoggle on Apr 25, 2015 17:46:33 GMT
Have to agree with you on Southeastern, there trains always smell rancid I think I'd be inclined to see how they get on with West Anglia before letting them loose on something as complex as the Southeastern network. Their only experience of anything similar is the Met Line and they haven't endeared themselves to many users there by removing off peak fast services apparently in the interests of standardization. I don't think all stops from Charing Cross to Gillingham for example will go down too well Three points here 1. TfL procure the service and other railway operators actually run it. Therefore LU's operation of the Met Line is of no relevance whatsoever. The objectives that drive the development of the tube timetable are different to those for Overground type services. 2. There is absolutely no evidence *at all* that TfL would remove semi fast trains if they took over the specification and procurement of part of the South Eastern operation. At best it is a scare story without foundation. 3. There is no reason to presume that TfL lack the requisite experience to specify a service level for South Eastern or any other part of the suburban rail network. People seem to forget that there are industry wide processes that control the planning and development of rail services. Network Rail would refuse to allow a timetable pattern which reduced the efficacy of the overall working timetable. Other operators would be required (under their franchise terms) to object to any change that increased the risk they faced when compared to the assumptions made when they started their franchise.
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Post by sid on May 2, 2015 6:00:31 GMT
Peter Hendy has now apologised for his ill advised rant and I would imagine any staff on TfL services using the word "sh*t" during a public announcement would be subject to disciplinary action.
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