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Post by intransit on Oct 5, 2015 0:06:48 GMT
I have actually felt/witnessed the pressure from the controller being a middleman between driver and engineers when I had a ramp failure and I was told to isolate the bus and switch everything off etc, restart and check again at which point I explained that I had had the same bus a the day before with the exact same problem (ramp not working) anyhow I done as he had said and I reported back that it still didn't work and I was told to continue in service and given another mechanical reference to add to my VCR card.
Prior to reporting the ramp failure I had done a live changeover at around 2PM, so I checked the bus over at the other end and found the ramp not working, on the VCR card it had been reported that the oyster reader was not working and was given a mechanical reference and the time on the VCR was around 8.30 AM, so the bus was running in service for over 5-6 hours with a faulty oyster reader and when I say faulty it didn't accept any tap-ins.
So, we have two mechanical references, one for the oyster and one for the ramp. As I'm driving along I am thinking to myself, the poo will hit the fan if TFL find out that I have no Oyster Reader for 5-6 hours and then I have no Ramp for a predominantly older aged route (guaranteed ramp usage). Anyhow, I am 30 mins into my journey and the controller starts to call me up to change Mechanical Reference numbers on my VCR card and again further into my journey to change them again....
I was a bit green at the time, being a new driver and when I look back, I was altering a legal document to get those above out of the poo. Next time I will bluntly refuse! Because it stinks!
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Post by intransit on Oct 5, 2015 0:14:25 GMT
I know there is pressure from above...
But when there's shoddy maintenance and shoddy controllers are running and covering things up, I am on the fence as to who is at fault for accidents...
Manor park/Beckton being a few of them.
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Post by intransit on Oct 5, 2015 0:24:54 GMT
On a side note....
If any controller asked me to use my phone to speak directly to an engineer, I would think you were taking the pee/passing the buck, since I am not allowed to use a phone in the cab or anywhere in the bus apart from the back seat. So I would tell you that I either do not have a phone or have credit or if I wanted to be brutally honest ask Go-Ahead to buy me one for company use! lol
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Post by eggmiester on Oct 5, 2015 22:15:32 GMT
Well in the case of the aforementioned incidents I can't really comment and really wouldn't expect anyone else to be apportioning blame without knowing the true facts.
In term of "passing the buck" or "taking the p***" for being asked to call the engineer directly I fell is actually being a little bit harsh! I only ask drivers to call the engineers if they are either Unhappy with the response the engineer has provided by the usual driver - controller - engineer channels or if there is a problem with the voice communications or even the engineer may request the driver to call the, to further explain the fault to help diagnose the problem. The fact there is a rule that phones cannot be used in the cab is not really a hinderance either as I would personally instruct any driver asked to call via phone to make the bus safe, switch the engine off and leave the cab (or the vehicle if they so wish) to make the call.
What I would suggest is that maybe you contract your garages performance manager or ibus hub manager and ask if you could spend an hour in the ibus room with a controller and see how it all works. They will generally be quite accommodating to such a request.
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Post by sid on Oct 6, 2015 11:30:37 GMT
I have actually felt/witnessed the pressure from the controller being a middleman between driver and engineers when I had a ramp failure and I was told to isolate the bus and switch everything off etc, restart and check again at which point I explained that I had had the same bus a the day before with the exact same problem (ramp not working) anyhow I done as he had said and I reported back that it still didn't work and I was told to continue in service and given another mechanical reference to add to my VCR card. Prior to reporting the ramp failure I had done a live changeover at around 2PM, so I checked the bus over at the other end and found the ramp not working, on the VCR card it had been reported that the oyster reader was not working and was given a mechanical reference and the time on the VCR was around 8.30 AM, so the bus was running in service for over 5-6 hours with a faulty oyster reader and when I say faulty it didn't accept any tap-ins. So, we have two mechanical references, one for the oyster and one for the ramp. As I'm driving along I am thinking to myself, the sh*t will hit the fan if TFL find out that I have no Oyster Reader for 5-6 hours and then I have no Ramp for a predominantly older aged route (guaranteed ramp usage). Anyhow, I am 30 mins into my journey and the controller starts to call me up to change Mechanical Reference numbers on my VCR card and again further into my journey to change them again.... I was a bit green at the time, being a new driver and when I look back, I was altering a legal document to get those above out of the sh*t. Next time I will bluntly refuse! Because it stinks! But neither are safety issues and if you were told to carry on then.......................
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Post by moz on Oct 6, 2015 23:42:29 GMT
On a side note.... If any controller asked me to use my phone to speak directly to an engineer, I would think you were taking the pee/passing the buck, since I am not allowed to use a phone in the cab or anywhere in the bus apart from the back seat. So I would tell you that I either do not have a phone or have credit or if I wanted to be brutally honest ask Go-Ahead to buy me one for company use! lol I'm the opposite, even after we were told to call all mechanicals in via the radio I would still phone the engineers direct, then call the controller and tell them what the score was. I wasn't popular with the controllers, but eventually they gave up booking me as I kept walking out of the managers' office without award. Controller controls routes, engineers do the oily stuff - simple! Moz
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Post by intransit on Oct 10, 2015 2:25:26 GMT
Well in the case of the aforementioned incidents I can't really comment and really wouldn't expect anyone else to be apportioning blame without knowing the true facts. In term of "passing the buck" or "taking the p***" for being asked to call the engineer directly I fell is actually being a little bit harsh! I only ask drivers to call the engineers if they are either Unhappy with the response the engineer has provided by the usual driver - controller - engineer channels or if there is a problem with the voice communications or even the engineer may request the driver to call the, to further explain the fault to help diagnose the problem. The fact there is a rule that phones cannot be used in the cab is not really a hinderance either as I would personally instruct any driver asked to call via phone to make the bus safe, switch the engine off and leave the cab (or the vehicle if they so wish) to make the call. What I would suggest is that maybe you contract your garages performance manager or ibus hub manager and ask if you could spend an hour in the ibus room with a controller and see how it all works. They will generally be quite accommodating to such a request. If you had stated in your original reply that you ONLY tell drivers to call engineers directly IF they're unhappy with the response from engineers, then you may have saved myself from writing "passing the buck" or "taking the p***" and also have saved yourself from responding to my reply lol It does come across to me as it does on the radio that controllers are way too busy to deal with issues or it gets in the way of doing their job...for an example, getting cut off mid sentence OVER AND OUT...WTF I called you? I didn't say over and out
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Post by intransit on Oct 10, 2015 2:39:22 GMT
I have actually felt/witnessed the pressure from the controller being a middleman between driver and engineers when I had a ramp failure and I was told to isolate the bus and switch everything off etc, restart and check again at which point I explained that I had had the same bus a the day before with the exact same problem (ramp not working) anyhow I done as he had said and I reported back that it still didn't work and I was told to continue in service and given another mechanical reference to add to my VCR card. Prior to reporting the ramp failure I had done a live changeover at around 2PM, so I checked the bus over at the other end and found the ramp not working, on the VCR card it had been reported that the oyster reader was not working and was given a mechanical reference and the time on the VCR was around 8.30 AM, so the bus was running in service for over 5-6 hours with a faulty oyster reader and when I say faulty it didn't accept any tap-ins. So, we have two mechanical references, one for the oyster and one for the ramp. As I'm driving along I am thinking to myself, the sh*t will hit the fan if TFL find out that I have no Oyster Reader for 5-6 hours and then I have no Ramp for a predominantly older aged route (guaranteed ramp usage). Anyhow, I am 30 mins into my journey and the controller starts to call me up to change Mechanical Reference numbers on my VCR card and again further into my journey to change them again.... I was a bit green at the time, being a new driver and when I look back, I was altering a legal document to get those above out of the sh*t. Next time I will bluntly refuse! Because it stinks! But neither are safety issues and if you were told to carry on then....................... Exactly, I carried on....I'm just highlighting when controllers and engineers trip them selves up.... I had one engineer throwing a strop because he had to come and check a non working ramp, two engineers end up arguing because one is doing a late run-out sheet and the other was disturbed while he was sitting in his car on the phone at Silvertown and another engineer tries to start a WVL, twisting the starter knob while the bus was isolated, I point out what he is doing wrong and he throws a strop and tells me he knows what he is doing! lol All these guys get PAID more than ME.
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Post by eggmiester on Oct 11, 2015 12:52:10 GMT
It does come across to me as it does on the radio that controllers are way too busy to deal with issues or it gets in the way of doing their job...for an example, getting cut off mid sentence OVER AND OUT...WTF I called you? I didn't say over and out The radio system is unfortunately over saturated now and can sometimes be a nuisance. Some calls will connect others will not, some calls my only connect one way I.e. The driver can hear the controller but the controller cannot hear the driver and vice versa... TFL are in the process of procuring contracts for the introduction of radio system upgrades and the eventual replacement of ibus with a more up to date system so hopefully these issues will be addressed in the near future. I still feel a sense on negativity between yourself and the controllers at your garage, so I revert back to a previous post and say I think it would be a good idea if you approached the Performance or Road manager at your garage and ask to spend an hour in the ibus hub with an experienced controller on a busy day too see for yourself what the job of a controller entails etc. It's not an easy job, you can be responsible for up to 10 routes at a time or even a whole garage or two (on a dead late or dead early mostly), but on a normal day I may end up controlling an average 40 to 60 buses in one hit over various routes, mostly in central London, which is can be nerve racking if you've got heavy delays!! This is coming from someone who has worked in the industry for 10 years now, 8 of those years as a driver like yourself!
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Post by VPL630 on Oct 11, 2015 22:19:32 GMT
It does come across to me as it does on the radio that controllers are way too busy to deal with issues or it gets in the way of doing their job...for an example, getting cut off mid sentence OVER AND OUT...WTF I called you? I didn't say over and out The radio system is unfortunately over saturated now and can sometimes be a nuisance. Some calls will connect others will not, some calls my only connect one way I.e. The driver can hear the controller but the controller cannot hear the driver and vice versa... TFL are in the process of procuring contracts for the introduction of radio system upgrades and the eventual replacement of ibus with a more up to date system so hopefully these issues will be addressed in the near future. I still feel a sense on negativity between yourself and the controllers at your garage, so I revert back to a previous post and say I think it would be a good idea if you approached the Performance or Road manager at your garage and ask to spend an hour in the ibus hub with an experienced controller on a busy day too see for yourself what the job of a controller entails etc. It's not an easy job, you can be responsible for up to 10 routes at a time or even a whole garage or two (on a dead late or dead early mostly), but on a normal day I may end up controlling an average 40 to 60 buses in one hit over various routes, mostly in central London, which is can be nerve racking if you've got heavy delays!! This is coming from someone who has worked in the industry for 10 years now, 8 of those years as a driver like yourself! Is it also true that when it get's busy controllers can't seem to connect one to one to buses and have to do route group calls ?
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Post by capitalomnibus on Oct 11, 2015 22:59:33 GMT
It does come across to me as it does on the radio that controllers are way too busy to deal with issues or it gets in the way of doing their job...for an example, getting cut off mid sentence OVER AND OUT...WTF I called you? I didn't say over and out The radio system is unfortunately over saturated now and can sometimes be a nuisance. Some calls will connect others will not, some calls my only connect one way I.e. The driver can hear the controller but the controller cannot hear the driver and vice versa... TFL are in the process of procuring contracts for the introduction of radio system upgrades and the eventual replacement of ibus with a more up to date system so hopefully these issues will be addressed in the near future. I still feel a sense on negativity between yourself and the controllers at your garage, so I revert back to a previous post and say I think it would be a good idea if you approached the Performance or Road manager at your garage and ask to spend an hour in the ibus hub with an experienced controller on a busy day too see for yourself what the job of a controller entails etc. It's not an easy job, you can be responsible for up to 10 routes at a time or even a whole garage or two (on a dead late or dead early mostly), but on a normal day I may end up controlling an average 40 to 60 buses in one hit over various routes, mostly in central London, which is can be nerve racking if you've got heavy delays!! This is coming from someone who has worked in the industry for 10 years now, 8 of those years as a driver like yourself! Over 10 years ago we were promised an all singing all dancing radio system that was digital etc. we were to get calls clear as a landline phone. When the radio's and system was upgraded to ibus, it was not better imo after all the hype. In fact you got more hang up calls, having to change channels calling back a bus just to see if you could get clear reception etc. I have no confidence it would get better even if they introduce another system.
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Post by capitalomnibus on Oct 11, 2015 23:02:51 GMT
The radio system is unfortunately over saturated now and can sometimes be a nuisance. Some calls will connect others will not, some calls my only connect one way I.e. The driver can hear the controller but the controller cannot hear the driver and vice versa... TFL are in the process of procuring contracts for the introduction of radio system upgrades and the eventual replacement of ibus with a more up to date system so hopefully these issues will be addressed in the near future. I still feel a sense on negativity between yourself and the controllers at your garage, so I revert back to a previous post and say I think it would be a good idea if you approached the Performance or Road manager at your garage and ask to spend an hour in the ibus hub with an experienced controller on a busy day too see for yourself what the job of a controller entails etc. It's not an easy job, you can be responsible for up to 10 routes at a time or even a whole garage or two (on a dead late or dead early mostly), but on a normal day I may end up controlling an average 40 to 60 buses in one hit over various routes, mostly in central London, which is can be nerve racking if you've got heavy delays!! This is coming from someone who has worked in the industry for 10 years now, 8 of those years as a driver like yourself! Is it also true that when it get's busy controllers can't seem to connect one to one to buses and have to do route group calls ? First I have heard of that one.
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Post by Steve09 on Oct 11, 2015 23:23:21 GMT
The radio system is unfortunately over saturated now and can sometimes be a nuisance. Some calls will connect others will not, some calls my only connect one way I.e. The driver can hear the controller but the controller cannot hear the driver and vice versa... TFL are in the process of procuring contracts for the introduction of radio system upgrades and the eventual replacement of ibus with a more up to date system so hopefully these issues will be addressed in the near future. I still feel a sense on negativity between yourself and the controllers at your garage, so I revert back to a previous post and say I think it would be a good idea if you approached the Performance or Road manager at your garage and ask to spend an hour in the ibus hub with an experienced controller on a busy day too see for yourself what the job of a controller entails etc. It's not an easy job, you can be responsible for up to 10 routes at a time or even a whole garage or two (on a dead late or dead early mostly), but on a normal day I may end up controlling an average 40 to 60 buses in one hit over various routes, mostly in central London, which is can be nerve racking if you've got heavy delays!! This is coming from someone who has worked in the industry for 10 years now, 8 of those years as a driver like yourself! Is it also true that when it get's busy controllers can't seem to connect one to one to buses and have to do route group calls ? It is noticable when controllers get stressed and then some arent fair on the driver, had an occurance last week where I tried to call up several times with the green button, was getting the "call recieved" then nothing. Even tried from another bus then the controller phones back and barks down the phone at me and then ends the call before I've had the oppurtunity to respond. I welcomed him to check the CCTV for proof (on second thoughts the TA cab doesn't even have CCTV ) Some drivers would have reported it. The vast majority are decent and they appreciate the effort us drivers make and this is appreciated by the driver!
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Post by intransit on Oct 12, 2015 3:19:09 GMT
It does come across to me as it does on the radio that controllers are way too busy to deal with issues or it gets in the way of doing their job...for an example, getting cut off mid sentence OVER AND OUT...WTF I called you? I didn't say over and out The radio system is unfortunately over saturated now and can sometimes be a nuisance. Some calls will connect others will not, some calls my only connect one way I.e. The driver can hear the controller but the controller cannot hear the driver and vice versa... TFL are in the process of procuring contracts for the introduction of radio system upgrades and the eventual replacement of ibus with a more up to date system so hopefully these issues will be addressed in the near future. I still feel a sense on negativity between yourself and the controllers at your garage, so I revert back to a previous post and say I think it would be a good idea if you approached the Performance or Road manager at your garage and ask to spend an hour in the ibus hub with an experienced controller on a busy day too see for yourself what the job of a controller entails etc. It's not an easy job, you can be responsible for up to 10 routes at a time or even a whole garage or two (on a dead late or dead early mostly), but on a normal day I may end up controlling an average 40 to 60 buses in one hit over various routes, mostly in central London, which is can be nerve racking if you've got heavy delays!! This is coming from someone who has worked in the industry for 10 years now, 8 of those years as a driver like yourself! I have never had a problem with calling/connecting via the green button except for on one occasion when Blackwell tunnel went down (RTC) I ended up 1 round down and on my meal break time, so I spent the next 30 minutes trying to get a controller to acknowledge me via the green button/text messaging for a lost mileage REF instead of going 'missing in action' after getting no response (several times) I phoned direct to iBus and those incoming calls were being ignored...I actually thought at the time the controller went AWOL through the stress lol I had around 10 ignored calls to ibus control and I lost count of green button received/text messages. Oh yes, I am highly negative towards THOSE controllers I am not trying to hide it in any way shape or form and I have no intention of spending an hour or two with them to be sympathetic. Far too much trying to save mileage to the point where you get turned for running late and you're still running late after the turn, I should have at minimum the time it takes to do my log card, so for me, that is incompetence.
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Post by eggmiester on Oct 14, 2015 1:27:02 GMT
I'm somewhat disappointed you still feel that way towards your controllers. I could go on and explain the different methods of service control and delay mitigation controllers employ, particularly on occasions where heavy delays are being experienced (i e when the Blackwall Tunnel gets closed), but I won't as I think I've said enough really to get my point across and that's from a both a drivers and controllers perspective..
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