How did early AM workers manage in the old days?

[Deleted]

I'm kind of interested in the history of London's buses although this community doesn't seem to have a "Historic" section.
Many routes seem to start much earlier today than they did 20-25 years ago.  How did early morning workers manage when the Night Bus network was only half of what it is today and most daytime routes didn't start until after 6AM.
I was on an E200 at 04:55 yesterday morning (first run of the day) and it was three quarters full on its way past Kensal Rise Station

[snoggle]

Dec 19, 2015 21:52:43 GMT slimjim said:

I'm kind of interested in the history of London's buses although this community doesn't seem to have a "Historic" section.
Many routes seem to start much earlier today than they did 20-25 years ago.  How did early morning workers manage when the Night Bus network was only half of what it is today and most daytime routes didn't start until after 6AM.
I was on an E200 at 04:55 yesterday morning (first run of the day) and it was three quarters full on its way past Kensal Rise Station

I think they managed because work start times were not as early nor were people commuting the vast distances that they can be doing these days.

I'm not sure that bus start times are generally that much earlier these days to be honest. Some routes do start earlier than they used to do but it's not a general rule across the board. Routes which served areas with a concentration of a trade or industry used to have special early journeys targeted for specific flows - some of these dated back a very long way. These days with the spread of night routes and 24 hour routes then there are more options for people and that in itself generates more travel. The growth of London's economy and its diversification has also altered travel patterns and the times people have to travel. I suspect that looking at what happens with the very first bus of the day doesn't give a real picture of demand. I think first buses of the day always have a bit of a "rush" of demand and subsequent buses are not that busy.

There is a good Flickr site where a Mr Grigg has scanned in old LT / LRT bus timetables. You could take a look at a sample of those to see if / how first bus times have changed. I suspect trunk routes are little different but suburban services do have earlier starts to give better connections to tubes and trains. Looking at the first few timetables on the Flickr site shows the 22 has similar start times from Putney Common today as it did in the late 80s (ignoring the N22). However the 313 has a rather better pattern of service and frequency from each end these days compared to a rather threadbare service in the late 80s.

[thesquirrels]

Dec 20, 2015 0:37:59 GMT snoggle said:

Dec 19, 2015 21:52:43 GMT slimjim said:

I'm kind of interested in the history of London's buses although this community doesn't seem to have a "Historic" section.
Many routes seem to start much earlier today than they did 20-25 years ago.  How did early morning workers manage when the Night Bus network was only half of what it is today and most daytime routes didn't start until after 6AM.
I was on an E200 at 04:55 yesterday morning (first run of the day) and it was three quarters full on its way past Kensal Rise Station

I think they managed because work start times were not as early nor were people commuting the vast distances that they can be doing these days.

I'm not sure that bus start times are generally that much earlier these days to be honest. Some routes do start earlier than they used to do but it's not a general rule across the board. Routes which served areas with a concentration of a trade or industry used to have special early journeys targeted for specific flows - some of these dated back a very long way. These days with the spread of night routes and 24 hour routes then there are more options for people and that in itself generates more travel. The growth of London's economy and its diversification has also altered travel patterns and the times people have to travel. I suspect that looking at what happens with the very first bus of the day doesn't give a real picture of demand. I think first buses of the day always have a bit of a "rush" of demand and subsequent buses are not that busy.

There is a good Flickr site where a Mr Grigg has scanned in old LT / LRT bus timetables. You could take a look at a sample of those to see if / how first bus times have changed. I suspect trunk routes are little different but suburban services do have earlier starts to give better connections to tubes and trains. Looking at the first few timetables on the Flickr site shows the 22 has similar start times from Putney Common today as it did in the late 80s (ignoring the N22). However the 313 has a rather better pattern of service and frequency from each end these days compared to a rather threadbare service in the late 80s.

If you look at his timetables for the 279 service (indeed right next to the 22 timetables) and the very early journeys to cater to Smithfield Market traffic (which has always traded in the small hours) you can get an example of where LT acknowledged and catered to that specific need for early morning services. The tradition for a large number of night routes to serve Fleet Street stems from the days of the press printworks long there, before they were moved out of central London.

But it is a valid observation. Demand can drive provision and provision can drive growth. In outer East London well into the 1990s there were some relatively major routes that didn't start on Sundays until very late by modern standards (in some cases 0730 or later). Those same routes are now loading well at 0530 or earlier.

[snoggle]

Dec 20, 2015 0:48:24 GMT thesquirrels said:

If you look at his timetables for the 279 service (indeed right next to the 22 timetables) and the very early journeys to cater to Smithfield Market traffic (which has always traded in the small hours) you can get an example of where LT acknowledged and catered to that specific need for early morning services. The tradition for a large number of night routes to serve Fleet Street stems from the days of the press printworks long there, before they were moved out of central London.

But it is a valid observation. Demand can drive provision and provision can drive growth. In outer East London well into the 1990s there were some relatively major routes that didn't start on Sundays until very late by modern standards (in some cases 0730 or later). Those same routes are now loading well at 0530 or earlier.

Yes the 279 is a good example and Fleet St is the other obvious one.

Sundays have obviously changed because Saturday night time activity stretches right through plus we now have work related travel because of Sunday trading rules being much relaxed compared to the 80s. Look at how late the 22 started on Sundays on those Flickr timetables. Comparing the W8 timetables back then with now shows a massive change in provision - starts nearly 2 hours earlier on Sundays and is twice as frequent early on and has 2 extra bph during the day.

I remember back in the 80s when LRT retendered the Waltham Forest network and decided that we couldn't have a Sunday bus to the Central on the 212 or 275 until gone 0900 - ridiculous. They actually shoved the start time back by about 1-2 hours. As soon as I moved away from that bit of Walthamstow the 275 went to x12 M-S and the 212 x10 M-S and got an earlier Sunday start time.