Entire London bus network run by one operator?

[Deleted]

I just wondered if this could ever happen or is there something in place to legally prevent a monopoly. 

[ServerKing]

Can't see your post, but it has happened before. It was called London Regional Transport (LRT), forerunner to TfL. It was them, there was no one else. This was before 1989. Hope this helps

[snoggle]

Jan 4, 2016 15:32:15 GMT ServerKing said:

Can't see your post, but it has happened before. It was called London Regional Transport (LRT), forerunner to TfL. It was them, there was no one else. This was before 1989. Hope this helps

Not really correct though. LRT had the remit to tender out routes and the first went in 1985 with others following on quickly. LRT was also the holding organisation - the operating business was, I think, London Buses Limited. You really need to go back a little earlier to the GLC era when LT was still operating its bus network as a whole. Even then, though, there were plenty of areas with routes run into London from outside with other operators and we have the delightful quirk of the old 98B at Ruislip that was run by a series of private firms. The entire London bus network has probably never had one operator but I am sure the historians will correct me if I am wrong.

If the OP is suggesting we go back to times past with a monolithic sole operator then wake me up when the debate's done. We've debated it before and got nowhere then and it's not going to happen in reality.

[sid]

Jan 4, 2016 15:15:31 GMT slimjim said:

I just wondered if this could ever happen or is there something in place to legally prevent a monopoly. 

Stagecoach get my vote lol.

[ServerKing]

Jan 4, 2016 16:52:46 GMT sid said:

Jan 4, 2016 15:15:31 GMT slimjim said:

I just wondered if this could ever happen or is there something in place to legally prevent a monopoly. 

Stagecoach get my vote lol.

Don't vote! Metroline will get in!

[danorak]

I suppose so long as it was still tendered, just as one block, it could technically happen. But operators wouldn't like it as it would be all or nothing: lose the bid and the entire business is gone. And TfL wouldn't like it as it would eliminate competition and create one mammoth retendering exercise instead of spreading it over time. Drivers wouldn't like it as if you lose your job with Operator X, or fancy a change, where could you go?

And I expect the Competition & Markets Authority would take a dim view.

[wivenswold]

I'd vote for public ownership of all transport companies not to mention utility providers. It alarms me that the country managed to be brain-washed into thinking that essential services being run for the profit of the few was a good idea. Transfer of risk is all well and good but as Metronet proved, it's a one-way street and us taxpayers are the ones who end up footing the bill when it goes wrong. Rant over.

[danorak]

Incidentially, I got the book 'Privatising London's Buses' for Christmas: it's fascinating, lots of interviews with people involved in the process going right back to the setting up of the Districts, and lots of little asides dropped in that I was unaware of.

[westhamgeezer]

Jan 4, 2016 15:15:31 GMT slimjim said:

I just wondered if this could ever happen or is there something in place to legally prevent a monopoly. 

I believe seeing/reading/hearing somewhere that there is a 25% of network limit of which go-ahead are very close to. I could well be wrong, so please someone correct me if this isn't the case.

[vjaska]

Jan 4, 2016 18:27:42 GMT danorak said:

Incidentially, I got the book 'Privatising London's Buses' for Christmas: it's fascinating, lots of interviews with people involved in the process going right back to the setting up of the Districts, and lots of little asides dropped in that I was unaware of.

It's a book I've had my eye on since I spotted a mate with it at the Westbourne Park running day. The pictures got me hooked so I look forward to the written content when I do eventually buy the book lol.

[snoggle]

Jan 4, 2016 18:27:42 GMT danorak said:

Incidentially, I got the book 'Privatising London's Buses' for Christmas: it's fascinating, lots of interviews with people involved in the process going right back to the setting up of the Districts, and lots of little asides dropped in that I was unaware of.

Oooh hadn't seen that book. I know Roger Torode having worked with him on smart ticketing that eventually became Oyster.

He is infamous for being in charge of London Forest when it collapsed following the strike at Walthamstow Garage (due to tendering). The pickets famously put up placards saying "on the To-rode to ruin".



And a later strike about tendering with lots of Olympians in view.

[wivenswold]

That book is on my list too. I can also recommend the Chris Green book about preparing Network South East for privatisation.

[RM5chris]

Must admit the release of that book had passed me by too.....Amazon says unavailable so will have to wrangle a skive into IA at Waterloo and see if they have it....

[danorak]

Jan 4, 2016 18:49:11 GMT snoggle said:

Jan 4, 2016 18:27:42 GMT danorak said:

Incidentially, I got the book 'Privatising London's Buses' for Christmas: it's fascinating, lots of interviews with people involved in the process going right back to the setting up of the Districts, and lots of little asides dropped in that I was unaware of.

Oooh hadn't seen that book. I know Roger Torode having worked with him on smart ticketing that eventually became Oyster.

He is infamous for being in charge of London Forest when it collapsed following the strike at Walthamstow Garage (due to tendering). The pickets famously put up placards saying "on the To-rode to ruin".



And a later strike about tendering with lots of Olympians in view.

Somewhere on my shelves I have a copy of 'Champion!', the TGWU's view of that dispute.

As you'd expect, Roger Torode's version is slightly different, but does expand on the difficult industrial situation within London Forest at the time. I think all sides found the then London Forest chairman difficult to deal with - he comes across as a rather stereotypical Yorkshireman!

It's pricey at £35 but is the best bus book I've read in a long time. One relevant aside is Clive Hodson (formerly of London Transport Buses) mentioning that Ken Livingstone & Dave Wetzel initially wanted tendering ended but were restricted by the legislation.

[snoggle]

Jan 4, 2016 19:05:08 GMT RM5chris said:

Must admit the release of that book had passed me by too.....Amazon says unavailable so will have to wrangle a skive into IA at Waterloo and see if they have it....

For the first time in a long time I was in the Ian Allen shop before Christmas and it wasn't on the shelves otherwise I'd have looked at it for sure. Ditto the LT Museum shop. Looks to me like it's sold very well and the print run is exhausted. Let's hope they do another run given several people here missed it and would probably like to buy it.