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Post by Alex on Jan 10, 2016 19:32:56 GMT
I'm sorry but you can throw all your politics in the bin, regardless of your philosophy Charming I won't keep quoting from the book because that's unfair to the author but it is featuring insights from a wide range of people who were there and knew what was going on and what was wrong. I was starting to think that it might not be worth looking for the book at this rate.......the wide range of people will be people the author has chosen though, I'm pretty certain there are many LT employees who worked very hard who would disagree with the description LT was a joke. When I lived in North Cheam my landlord was an ex conductor of Victoria and Putney garages, and his mate would come round once a week for a chat (ex driver at Victoria, Putney, Merton and Sutton). The stories they told me of the LT days were from another world. The staff were proud of the job they did and while there were times not far away from an episode of 'On The Buses' these times were not done just for the sake of it and to inconvenience all and sundry.......the skillset back then was phenomenal. The roadside controllers had no radios, no iBus, no tracking, it was all done by sharp eye and experience. The drivers and conductors had to rely on experience and 'tricks of the trade' to deliver the optimum service. It almost seems this book has been written in such a way to make privatisation sound wonderful. Talking to the two blokes I mentioned earlier, the time of the takeover was far from good....... I think that these days, if you bought back LT with the level of recording and technology that we have today, the picture would be very different. There are far more tools these days and the 'all seeing eye' is evident. Apologies to sound negative in this post but this book doesn't sound very nice. It seems to tarnish the reputation of many former transport workers in the capital Heading back to the original jist of the thread, I would indeed say that one operator would work best. It would be the best thing to resolve the issues that the Unite union are always looking into. I would also like to see the radically different conditions/agreements/working practices between each company raised to a better level, which this would also go a long way to solve too. Sadly I don't think it'll happen any time soon (if at all) but to answer the question about running as one operator - this forum member gives it the yes vote
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Post by danorak on Jan 10, 2016 22:03:41 GMT
I'm sorry but you can throw all your politics in the bin, regardless of your philosophy Charming I won't keep quoting from the book because that's unfair to the author but it is featuring insights from a wide range of people who were there and knew what was going on and what was wrong. I was starting to think that it might not be worth looking for the book at this rate.......the wide range of people will be people the author has chosen though, I'm pretty certain there are many LT employees who worked very hard who would disagree with the description LT was a joke. When I lived in North Cheam my landlord was an ex conductor of Victoria and Putney garages, and his mate would come round once a week for a chat (ex driver at Victoria, Putney, Merton and Sutton). The stories they told me of the LT days were from another world. The staff were proud of the job they did and while there were times not far away from an episode of 'On The Buses' these times were not done just for the sake of it and to inconvenience all and sundry.......the skillset back then was phenomenal. The roadside controllers had no radios, no iBus, no tracking, it was all done by sharp eye and experience. The drivers and conductors had to rely on experience and 'tricks of the trade' to deliver the optimum service. It almost seems this book has been written in such a way to make privatisation sound wonderful. Talking to the two blokes I mentioned earlier, the time of the takeover was far from good....... I think that these days, if you bought back LT with the level of recording and technology that we have today, the picture would be very different. There are far more tools these days and the 'all seeing eye' is evident. Apologies to sound negative in this post but this book doesn't sound very nice. It seems to tarnish the reputation of many former transport workers in the capital Heading back to the original jist of the thread, I would indeed say that one operator would work best. It would be the best thing to resolve the issues that the Unite union are always looking into. I would also like to see the radically different conditions/agreements/working practices between each company raised to a better level, which this would also go a long way to solve too. Sadly I don't think it'll happen any time soon (if at all) but to answer the question about running as one operator - this forum member gives it the yes vote The conclusions of the book (which I won't reveal) are rather more balanced and fair-minded than you give the author credit for. One interviewee in particular recounts experience of the 'sharp end' of privatisation. It wouldn't do anyone any good if the book sugar-coated history, nice or not. You only have to look back at old LOTS reviews and books like 'Reshaping London Buses' to see how things were.
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Post by snoggle on Jan 10, 2016 23:07:35 GMT
I'm sorry but you can throw all your politics in the bin, regardless of your philosophy Charming Not meant at you personally. It was a general remark that I don't think people, regardless of their politics, are or should be tolerant of poor service or having money wasted. I won't keep quoting from the book because that's unfair to the author but it is featuring insights from a wide range of people who were there and knew what was going on and what was wrong. I was starting to think that it might not be worth looking for the book at this rate.......the wide range of people will be people the author has chosen though, I'm pretty certain there are many LT employees who worked very hard who would disagree with the description LT was a joke. When I lived in North Cheam my landlord was an ex conductor of Victoria and Putney garages, and his mate would come round once a week for a chat (ex driver at Victoria, Putney, Merton and Sutton). The stories they told me of the LT days were from another world. The staff were proud of the job they did and while there were times not far away from an episode of 'On The Buses' these times were not done just for the sake of it and to inconvenience all and sundry.......the skillset back then was phenomenal. The roadside controllers had no radios, no iBus, no tracking, it was all done by sharp eye and experience. The drivers and conductors had to rely on experience and 'tricks of the trade' to deliver the optimum service. It almost seems this book has been written in such a way to make privatisation sound wonderful. Talking to the two blokes I mentioned earlier, the time of the takeover was far from good....... I think that these days, if you bought back LT with the level of recording and technology that we have today, the picture would be very different. There are far more tools these days and the 'all seeing eye' is evident. Apologies to sound negative in this post but this book doesn't sound very nice. It seems to tarnish the reputation of many former transport workers in the capital Heading back to the original jist of the thread, I would indeed say that one operator would work best. It would be the best thing to resolve the issues that the Unite union are always looking into. I would also like to see the radically different conditions/agreements/working practices between each company raised to a better level, which this would also go a long way to solve too. Sadly I don't think it'll happen any time soon (if at all) but to answer the question about running as one operator - this forum member gives it the yes vote No the book, as far as I have read, is not lopsided or biased. I know the author of old. He's a perfectly decent chap and given that he knows an awful lot of the people who are quoted in the book he's not going to skew what they said. He was also a victim of the tendering and privatisation process so he has no reason to view it as overly beneficial. The book also does not deny that there was expertise and good people in LT. The problem was that their efforts were often lost or smoothered by an overweening and ineffective bureaucracy. These things are always a question of balance. I was very careful to say that the position in the late 70s and 80s was poor. I did not say it had been poor since 1933 when LT was formed. The book is not about propaganda - it is about setting out events based on the real experiences of people directly involved. I am sure readers will draw their own conclusions. Well I think your conclusion that your "better world" single operator is not going to happen soon is pretty much correct. There's no impetus for public sector operational consolidation in London. The public don't understand the issues and no politician is interested in it. The bigger issue for London is if it can "commercialise" or "minimum subsidy" the bus network without hacking it to bits in the process.
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Post by Alex on Jan 11, 2016 13:38:17 GMT
The conclusions of the book (which I won't reveal) are rather more balanced and fair-minded than you give the author credit for. One interviewee in particular recounts experience of the 'sharp end' of privatisation. It wouldn't do anyone any good if the book sugar-coated history, nice or not. Not meant at you personally. No, it's ok - I see what you mean and sorry if I seemed harsh. No the book, as far as I have read, is not lopsided or biased. I know the author of old. He's a perfectly decent chap and given that he knows an awful lot of the people who are quoted in the book he's not going to skew what they said. He was also a victim of the tendering and privatisation process so he has no reason to view it as overly beneficial. The book also does not deny that there was expertise and good people in LT. Glad the book isn't as angled as I thought was - I'm sure it's a very good read and well worth the investment. Just that I get a bit sensitive over the era of private takeovers, listening to the stories from the ex LT people it sounds like a very scary time. Then I hear from more current people about a culture of trying to sack people on old contracts over any little thing (to get new contract people in on terms beneficial to the company), a culture of fear about taking defective buses off the road (and losing mileage), rosters which are very harsh indeed and unrealistic timetables. Also the worsening of contracts as newer people start. Ever since I saw the Ken Loach film 'The Navigators' (based on events from Connex South Eastern) I find the private world very worrying, and with the current government not seeming the kindest on workers rights and conditions, this makes things even more severe...... I know there's pros and cons to any situation, but the 'one operator' thing is an issue which will always strike a chord with me.....
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Post by MetrolineGA1511 on Jan 24, 2016 20:12:48 GMT
Services were often unreliable prior to route tendering and privatisation. Early tendering was often not a success either. Some operators used older buses than LBL, some ex-LBL, and a few had their contracts terminated early such as Sampsons and Cityrama. However, a few were good such as Capital Citybus, Grey Green and Metrobus. Since LBL subsidiaries were privatised, most buses are now run by established national and international companies. Even the few genuine independents, namely CT Plus, Sullivan and Uno, seem to do a good job.
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