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Post by M1104 on Jan 15, 2016 13:01:46 GMT
I believe it did before the 427 number was reintroduced. Others I remember are the 36 until the 436 was introduced, the 49 before the 249 was introduced & the 63 though overlapping journeys were withdrawn long before the 363 number came into use. Actually the 249 was 'reintroduced' as i remember it doing Crystal Palace to Clapham Junction via Trinity Road and Wandsworth Common during the 70s into the 80s, which is when it got renumbered* to 49 and joined/overlapped with its main Streatham - Shepherd's Bush Green section * - and I believe slight rerouting in the Wandsworth Common area
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Post by John tuthill on Jan 15, 2016 13:04:36 GMT
Rather common when I was a nipper but are there any current routes operating in this way? Before bendy buses were introduced, the 12 used to run between Notting Hill Gate - Peckham & Oxford Circus - Dulwich Library (I think) When thw world was in B&W, the 12 ran from Harlesden Willesden Junction to Dulwich the Plough, and Oxford Circus to TC garage. At one time it ran from 6(!) garages with a PVR of 120. Attached is a copy of a 1958 timetable from Ian Armstrong's bus route web page. Attachment Deleted
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Post by Nathan on Jan 15, 2016 13:08:22 GMT
The 208 was the last route I remember running on two overlapping sections, thankfully they don't exist anymore. I was never fond of a route having overlapping sections, having two separate routes makes more sense. It confused people on the 2 as well lol. It was only when the 2's Brixton to Crystal Palace journeys were renumbered '432' that Brixton lost its only remaining overlapping sections route. The 137/417 overlap too. As well as routes 109/159 and 36/436.
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Post by rmz19 on Jan 15, 2016 13:12:44 GMT
I can't quite recall the 12 running in overlapping sections, but I remember it terminating at NHG ages ago very well. I used to live in Baker Street and would always get the 27 to school, but the adventurous side of me liked to risk being late for school just for the sake of getting the 12 from Marble Arch and experience a good thrash along Bayswater Road mjcarchive.www.idnet.com/times/1to49/012%2020040124.htmAh so it did, interesting. Thanks for the info.
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Post by bigbaddom1981 on Jan 15, 2016 13:31:04 GMT
The 29 has had many versions. The most recent versions were
Enfield Town - Trafalgar Square Palmers Green - Camden Town/ Wood Green Trafalgar Square And now Wood Green - Trafalgar Square
The 29 used to terminate at Victoria.
Route 329 was introduced to replace the 29 north of Palmers Green, and at the same time, if my memory serves me correctly, route W2 stopped operating Enfield Town - Finsbury Park via Crouch End
When the route converted to Bendy Bus, the Palmers Green end was changed to the 141 (as it remains today).
The 243 and 141 used to have Sunday only terminating points at Liverpool Street.
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Post by snoggle on Jan 15, 2016 14:30:32 GMT
The 243 and 141 used to have Sunday only terminating points at Liverpool Street. Mode = [pedant] The 141 did run to Livepool St for a few years. However the 243 never reached Liverpool St, the 243A did that. The 243 was turned at Old St at weekends after the 243A was scrapped. The 43 also used to have a Sundays variation via Shoreditch and Liverpool St for the Sunday market at Petticoat Lane. I had not appreciated it was reintroduced via Bishopsgate on Sundays for a short period in 2004 but was adandoned again.
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Post by vjaska on Jan 15, 2016 14:37:15 GMT
It confused people on the 2 as well lol. It was only when the 2's Brixton to Crystal Palace journeys were renumbered '432' that Brixton lost its only remaining overlapping sections route. The 137/417 overlap too. As well as routes 109/159 and 36/436. Indeed though the 137 wasn't run in overlapping sections before the 417 was introduced as the 137A was simply renumbered 417 whereas the 2 & 36 both operated with overlapping sections before the Brixton to Crystal Palace & Paddington to Lewisham sections were renumbered 432 & 436 respectively. The 109 used to run in overlapping sections until it was cut back to Brixton - the overlapping sections were Purley to Brixton & Croydon to Trafalgar Square.
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Post by vjaska on Jan 15, 2016 14:41:06 GMT
I believe it did before the 427 number was reintroduced. Others I remember are the 36 until the 436 was introduced, the 49 before the 249 was introduced & the 63 though overlapping journeys were withdrawn long before the 363 number came into use. Actually the 249 was 'reintroduced' as i remember it doing Crystal Palace to Clapham Junction via Trinity Road and Wandsworth Common during the 70s into the 80s, which is when it got renumbered* to 49 and joined/overlapped with its main Streatham - Shepherd's Bush Green section * - and I believe slight rerouting in the Wandsworth Common area Ah right - my 1990 Streatham Bus Guide has the 49 in running with overlapping sections and I was presumed the 249 was re-introduced a few years later when it ran from Clapham Junction to Crystal Palace?
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Post by snoggle on Jan 15, 2016 14:52:44 GMT
The 137/417 overlap too. As well as routes 109/159 and 36/436. Indeed though the 137 wasn't run in overlapping sections before the 417 was introduced as the 137A was simply renumbered 417 whereas the 2 & 36 both operated with overlapping sections before the Brixton to Crystal Palace & Paddington to Lewisham sections were renumbered 432 & 436 respectively. The 109 used to run in overlapping sections until it was cut back to Brixton - the overlapping sections were Purley to Brixton & Croydon to Trafalgar Square. I'm pretty certain that the 137 did used to run in overlapping sections when it ran north of Oxford Circus to Archway. I don't believe all the buses ran Crystal Palace to Archway. The top bit was hived off into the 135 which was then faffed around with years and years until LRT seemed to settle on the 88 doing the Oxo to Camden bit and the 134 picking up the Warren St - Archway traffic. What is quite telling is how many pretty long bits of routes with multiple services in inner North London have been whittled down to 1 or 2 routes these days. Examples are the 135 going, the 27 to Archway going, the 221 lost south of Turnpike Lane, the 17 lost north of Archway.
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Post by bigbaddom1981 on Jan 15, 2016 14:59:22 GMT
The 243 and 141 used to have Sunday only terminating points at Liverpool Street. Mode = [pedant] The 141 did run to Livepool St for a few years. However the 243 never reached Liverpool St, the 243A did that. The 243 was turned at Old St at weekends after the 243A was scrapped. The 43 also used to have a Sundays variation via Shoreditch and Liverpool St for the Sunday market at Petticoat Lane. I had not appreciated it was reintroduced via Bishopsgate on Sundays for a short period in 2004 but was adandoned again. You know I knew it was 243A!
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Post by paulsw2 on Jan 15, 2016 15:06:57 GMT
When the 12 was crew operated apart from early morning & evenings Mon-Sat It ran as Dulwich-Oxford Circus & Peckham-Notting Hill Gate. Sundays being OPO it ran end to end
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Post by M1104 on Jan 15, 2016 15:16:47 GMT
Actually the 249 was 'reintroduced' as i remember it doing Crystal Palace to Clapham Junction via Trinity Road and Wandsworth Common during the 70s into the 80s, which is when it got renumbered* to 49 and joined/overlapped with its main Streatham - Shepherd's Bush Green section * - and I believe slight rerouting in the Wandsworth Common area Ah right - my 1990 Streatham Bus Guide has the 49 in running with overlapping sections and I was presumed the 249 was re-introduced a few years later when it ran from Clapham Junction to Crystal Palace? Thinking back on it I remember the 49's extension to Crystal Palace not lasting all that long. I'm therefore guessing the relevant section reverted back to 249 around '91 or '92. I do remember that when it returned it only ran as far west as Tooting Bec Station, possibly when the 319 or 'short lived' 349 got introduced.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 15, 2016 15:30:40 GMT
Night buses currently provide the most overlapping section workings, quite a few examples, including the N18 and N207 .
Effectively the 253/254 still operate like that as well, although use different numbers . Two of my favourite routes just for diversity purposes of seeing London
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Post by 6HP502C on Jan 15, 2016 15:38:12 GMT
The 208 was the last route I remember running on two overlapping sections, thankfully they don't exist anymore. I was never fond of a route having overlapping sections, having two separate routes makes more sense. It confused people on the 2 as well lol. It was only when the 2's Brixton to Crystal Palace journeys were renumbered '432' that Brixton lost its only remaining overlapping sections route. We did have the N159 as well except that ran in two sections that didn't overlap and, I can't quite remember, but I think that only happened either during week nights or weekend nights only - it ran as Marble Arch to Streatham (the old terminating point) and then Streatham to New Addington, Homestead Way The N159 was introduced in 1999 to replace the N109, running as follows on weekends; 1bph Marble Arch - New Addington 1bph Marble Arch - Coulsdon 2bph Marble Arch - Streatham In 2000, some extra journeys were introduced between New Addington and Thornton Heath at the beginning and end of the night. The Coulsdon section was withdrawn, replaced by the N68 which only ran as far as Purley until that point. In 2004, the Marble Arch to New Addington trips became half hourly every night, with extra buses provided between Marble Arch and Streatham and stayed that way until the route was withdrawn in 2010. The N159 definitely ran through from Marble Arch to New Addington - I remember seeing a severely overrevving DLA326 revving its nuts off through Trafalgar Square (going nowhere fast) and thinking "I'd hate to be on that all the way to Addington!"
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Post by John tuthill on Jan 15, 2016 15:52:00 GMT
Indeed though the 137 wasn't run in overlapping sections before the 417 was introduced as the 137A was simply renumbered 417 whereas the 2 & 36 both operated with overlapping sections before the Brixton to Crystal Palace & Paddington to Lewisham sections were renumbered 432 & 436 respectively. The 109 used to run in overlapping sections until it was cut back to Brixton - the overlapping sections were Purley to Brixton & Croydon to Trafalgar Square.[/quote ]I'm pretty certain that the 137 did used to run in overlapping sections when it ran north of Oxford Circus to Archway. I don't believe all the buses ran Crystal Palace to Archway. The top bit was hived off into the 135 which was then faffed around with years and years until LRT seemed to settle on the 88 doing the Oxo to Camden bit and the 134 picking up the Warren St - Archway traffic. What is quite telling is how many pretty long bits of routes with multiple services in inner North London have been whittled down to 1 or 2 routes these days. Examples are the 135 going, the 27 to Archway going, the 221 lost south of Turnpike Lane, the 17 lost north of Archway. They did, they ran from GM(RTL) and N(RT) Attached is a 1958 timetable from Ian Armstrong's web page View Attachment
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