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Post by southlondonbus on May 22, 2019 11:11:19 GMT
Was there any reason why the 237 kept Routemaster's for so long as having a section outside of london it seems odd they survived up till Feb 1987? I'd have thought they would have gone in the 70s or atleast by 1982-85. They had left many key central routes and even many major suburban routes by '87. Was there a restriction preventing OPO?
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Post by wirewiper on May 22, 2019 11:29:58 GMT
Was there any reason why the 237 kept Routemaster's for so long as having a section outside of london it seems odd they survived up till Feb 1987? I'd have thought they would have gone in the 70s or atleast by 1982-85. They had left many key central routes and even many major suburban routes by '87. Was there a restriction preventing OPO? <iframe width="24.200000000000045" height="3.5600000000000023" style="position: absolute; width: 24.200000000000045px; height: 3.5600000000000023px; z-index: -9999; border-style: none;left: 15px; top: -5px;" id="MoatPxIOPT1_87227298" scrolling="no"></iframe> <iframe width="24.200000000000045" height="3.5600000000000023" style="position: absolute; width: 24.2px; height: 3.56px; z-index: -9999; border-style: none; left: 1149px; top: -5px;" id="MoatPxIOPT1_10060506" scrolling="no"></iframe> <iframe width="24.200000000000045" height="3.5600000000000023" style="position: absolute; width: 24.2px; height: 3.56px; z-index: -9999; border-style: none; left: 15px; top: 118px;" id="MoatPxIOPT1_36591179" scrolling="no"></iframe> <iframe width="24.200000000000045" height="3.5600000000000023" style="position: absolute; width: 24.2px; height: 3.56px; z-index: -9999; border-style: none; left: 1149px; top: 118px;" id="MoatPxIOPT1_26200783" scrolling="no"></iframe> The 237 was a major suburban trunk route that just happened to have a short section beyond the Greater London boundary (and that was only covered by one in every two or three journeys with the main service terminating at Lower Feltham). Prior to 1978 the 237 was actually a Hounslow-Chertsey route operated by 39-seat RFs and latterly Bristol LHs. The 117 was RM-operated and ran between Shepherd's Bush and Staines. Both routes were subsidised by Surrey County Council, who wanted to reduce the amount of money it was paying to the Greater London Council for London Transport services, and to transfer these to London Country where possible as their services were cheaper to operate. From the 28th January 1978, the 117 was cut back to operate between Staines and Hounslow, with a Monday-Friday extension to Brentford, and was converted to single-deck one-man (sic) operation with LS Leyland Nationals. The 237 was radically restructured to become a Routemaster-operated trunk suburban radial route operating between Shepherds Bush and Lower Feltham, with some journeys extended to Sunbury Village as this was the first convenient point beyond the Greater London boundary to terminates (as the GLC/London Transport was responsible for services within the Greater London boundary, the politics of the time required that the red buses on the 237 should operate to at least that point). The rest of the route was covered by a new London Country 459 route operating between Feltham Station and Chertsey.
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Post by bookd on May 22, 2019 14:49:03 GMT
About a year ago I took a detour to look at the old Lower Feltham terminus and found that the bus stand was still there. It used to work in a loop from the main road one end of which is now closed off, so if a bus actually made it to the old stand it could not leave by the old route, would probably annoy the residents, and would need a multiple point turn to change direction.
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Post by bookd on May 22, 2019 14:59:48 GMT
A lot of the posts and thoughts on this thread are based on temporary diversions; in practice the bridge won't open for years, and maybe not at all. A permanent new restructure of routes might be more appropriate.
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Post by bookd on May 22, 2019 15:01:28 GMT
A lot of the posts and thoughts on this thread are based on temporary diversions; in practice the bridge won't open for years, and maybe not at all. A permanent new restructure of routes might be more appropriate.
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Post by evergreenadam on May 22, 2019 18:29:28 GMT
Interesting! You would have been at Stamford Brook Garage with my father who was a conductor 1981 until crew routes transferred to Shepherds Bush in 1988. He loved the 9s but hated the Saturday duties on the 237! What was your father's name? It is a long time ago but I might still remember him. I left London for Liverpool in September 1984. Some conductors didn't like the 237 duties because of the complicated and extorionate out county fares on the stretch between Lower Feltham and Sunbury Village. These fares were still graduated, rose very steeply and differed between peaks and off peak. Children's fares were equally complicated. There was no way you could remember them all as you were not on the 237 all the time so for virtually every fare you had to get out your pocket farecharts and check. When crews transferred in from Mortlake and Riverside some of them found the 237 hard going. There was one guy ex Mortlake who was so terrified of the 237 that whenever his Saturday came he would try to see if I would swap for a 9 or 27 duty. The unfairness of out county fares at the time was summed up by the fact it could cost 70p to go from Sunbury Village to the centre of Feltham, but just 25p to go from Lower Feltham to Turnham Green Terrace at the time of the suburban flat fare scheme. The most money I ever paid in was not on a 9 or 27 but the 237. Between September 1982 and June 1983 Stamford Brook had seven Monday to Friday duties on the 237. On the Monday before Christmas I paid in £148. A considerable amount of that was because it was unusually busy with shoppers going to Hounslow from the Sunbury area. On the 9 Ash Grove were always trying to dodge work and Hounslow were similarly uncooperative on the 237. Working on the 27 was a pleasure in that the Stamford Brook and Holloway crews shared the road and worked well together in the interests of passengers. I will send you a private message. Great to hear your reminiscences and all that knowledge and those experiences from that time. I remember spending a day or two during the school holidays out on the bus with my father on the 9s when they ran to Liverpool Street including on the day of the Royal Wedding in 1986 and on the 27s prior to OPO conversion. I think my father disliked the Saturday duties on the 237 as the loadings were heavy and demand relentless. Saturdays were more intense back then as fewer households owned a car, shops did not open on Sundays and typically had shorter opening hours during the week and there were fewer out of town supermarkets so all the demand was really focused on town centres on a Saturday. There were some fairly lively passengers through Feltham on a Saturday night too.
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Post by sid on May 22, 2019 20:32:17 GMT
A lot of the posts and thoughts on this thread are based on temporary diversions; in practice the bridge won't open for years, and maybe not at all. A permanent new restructure of routes might be more appropriate. Definitely need some long term planning, a few ideas I had: 22 Extended via current 209 route to Mortlake Avondale Road. 82 New Route. Roehampton Bessborough Road via 72 to Castelnau. Operated by Go Ahead with buses from the 485. 190 Extended from West Brompton via 430 to South Kensington. Additional peak hour buses between Manor Circus and Hammersmith. 209 Withdrawn, replaced by 22 and 419. 419 Rerouted at Castelnau to Wetlands Centre and as 22 to Putney Bridge Station. 430 Withdrawn between Fulham Palace Road and South Kensington and rerouted to Hammersmith giving a direct link to Roehampton. 485 Withdrawn N33 and N72 double run to serve Castelnau
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Post by evergreenadam on May 22, 2019 20:46:04 GMT
A lot of the posts and thoughts on this thread are based on temporary diversions; in practice the bridge won't open for years, and maybe not at all. A permanent new restructure of routes might be more appropriate. Definitely need some long term planning, a few ideas I had: 22 Extended via current 209 route to Mortlake Avondale Road. 82 New Route. Roehampton Bessborough Road via 72 to Castelnau. Operated by Go Ahead with buses from the 485. 190 Extended from West Brompton via 430 to South Kensington. Additional peak hour buses between Manor Circus and Hammersmith. 209 Withdrawn, replaced by 22 and 419. 419 Rerouted at Castelnau to Wetlands Centre and as 22 to Putney Bridge Station. 430 Withdrawn between Fulham Palace Road and South Kensington and rerouted to Hammersmith giving a direct link to Roehampton. 485 Withdrawn N33 and N72 double run to serve Castelnau The rerouting of 430 to Hammersmith would be very sensible, subject to stand space being available . I can’t believe the over capacity on routes 74 and 430 between Putney High Street and South Kensington has been allowed to continue for so long. A link between Hammersmith and Putney Station is long overdue. The Old Brompton Road would be better served by route 190 which currently terminates short of a traffic destination. The 190 is quite busy these days especially following the cut back of route 27. If it arrives first on King Street heading west in the evening peak it gets quite full.
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Post by rif153 on May 22, 2019 20:57:07 GMT
Definitely need some long term planning, a few ideas I had: 22 Extended via current 209 route to Mortlake Avondale Road. 82 New Route. Roehampton Bessborough Road via 72 to Castelnau. Operated by Go Ahead with buses from the 485. 190 Extended from West Brompton via 430 to South Kensington. Additional peak hour buses between Manor Circus and Hammersmith. 209 Withdrawn, replaced by 22 and 419. 419 Rerouted at Castelnau to Wetlands Centre and as 22 to Putney Bridge Station. 430 Withdrawn between Fulham Palace Road and South Kensington and rerouted to Hammersmith giving a direct link to Roehampton. 485 Withdrawn N33 and N72 double run to serve Castelnau The rerouting of 430 to Hammersmith would be very sensible, subject to stand space being available . I can’t believe the over capacity on routes 74 and 430 between Putney High Street and South Kensington has been allowed to continue for so long. A link between Hammersmith and Putney Station is long overdue. The Old Brompton Road would be better served by route 190 which currently terminates short of a traffic destination. The 190 is quite busy these days especially following the cut back of route 27. If it arrives first on King Street heading west in the evening peak it gets quite full. I would welcome a Hammersmith to Putney Station route, yes the 485 looks set to be rerouted but the frequency of the 485 is very poor. I would like the 190 to decked but I think TFL will probably stick to the status quo which is annoying, I am hoping the next ITT specfies double decker buses
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Post by george on May 22, 2019 20:59:36 GMT
A lot of the posts and thoughts on this thread are based on temporary diversions; in practice the bridge won't open for years, and maybe not at all. A permanent new restructure of routes might be more appropriate. Definitely need some long term planning, a few ideas I had: 22 Extended via current 209 route to Mortlake Avondale Road. 82 New Route. Roehampton Bessborough Road via 72 to Castelnau. Operated by Go Ahead with buses from the 485. 190 Extended from West Brompton via 430 to South Kensington. Additional peak hour buses between Manor Circus and Hammersmith. 209 Withdrawn, replaced by 22 and 419. 419 Rerouted at Castelnau to Wetlands Centre and as 22 to Putney Bridge Station. 430 Withdrawn between Fulham Palace Road and South Kensington and rerouted to Hammersmith giving a direct link to Roehampton. 485 Withdrawn N33 and N72 double run to serve Castelnau Most of the complaints from local residents are that 1 bus every half hour from Barnes to Hammersmith isn't good another. Personally I would reroute the 209 back to Hammersmith via Chiswick bridge and withdraw the 533. Other wise think the 430 rerouting is great.
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Post by Deleted on May 22, 2019 21:27:00 GMT
Definitely need some long term planning, a few ideas I had: 22 Extended via current 209 route to Mortlake Avondale Road. 82 New Route. Roehampton Bessborough Road via 72 to Castelnau. Operated by Go Ahead with buses from the 485. 190 Extended from West Brompton via 430 to South Kensington. Additional peak hour buses between Manor Circus and Hammersmith. 209 Withdrawn, replaced by 22 and 419. 419 Rerouted at Castelnau to Wetlands Centre and as 22 to Putney Bridge Station. 430 Withdrawn between Fulham Palace Road and South Kensington and rerouted to Hammersmith giving a direct link to Roehampton. 485 Withdrawn N33 and N72 double run to serve Castelnau The rerouting of 430 to Hammersmith would be very sensible, subject to stand space being available . I can’t believe the over capacity on routes 74 and 430 between Putney High Street and South Kensington has been allowed to continue for so long. A link between Hammersmith and Putney Station is long overdue. The Old Brompton Road would be better served by route 190 which currently terminates short of a traffic destination. The 190 is quite busy these days especially following the cut back of route 27. If it arrives first on King Street heading west in the evening peak it gets quite full. There is no place to turn around at Putney Station so where would you propose for the route to stand.
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Post by thelondonthing on May 22, 2019 21:34:04 GMT
It doesn't need to stand or turn at Putney Station - it would pass the station on its route between Roehampton and Hammersmith. evergreenadam was making the point that a connection between Putney Station and Hammersmith would be advantageous, but there's no mention of terminating the route at the station.
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Post by thelondonthing on May 22, 2019 21:38:33 GMT
About a year ago I took a detour to look at the old Lower Feltham terminus and found that the bus stand was still there. It used to work in a loop from the main road one end of which is now closed off, so if a bus actually made it to the old stand it could not leave by the old route, would probably annoy the residents, and would need a multiple point turn to change direction. Where exactly was/is the stand? I vaguely remember buses terminating there were blinded for 'Lower Feltham, Three Horseshoes' (and possibly 'Lower Feltham, Sunbury Road' at some point?), but I've no idea where they would stand or turn when they got there.
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Post by rif153 on May 22, 2019 21:39:39 GMT
The rerouting of 430 to Hammersmith would be very sensible, subject to stand space being available . I can’t believe the over capacity on routes 74 and 430 between Putney High Street and South Kensington has been allowed to continue for so long. A link between Hammersmith and Putney Station is long overdue. The Old Brompton Road would be better served by route 190 which currently terminates short of a traffic destination. The 190 is quite busy these days especially following the cut back of route 27. If it arrives first on King Street heading west in the evening peak it gets quite full. There is no place to turn around at Putney Station so where would you propose for the route to stand. evergreendam was stating that Sid's idea to divert the 430 to Hammersmith would be beneficial because it would link Putney Station to Hammersmith sid's proposed 430 would still serve Danebury Avenue and stand there
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Post by Hassaan on May 22, 2019 21:56:48 GMT
About a year ago I took a detour to look at the old Lower Feltham terminus and found that the bus stand was still there. It used to work in a loop from the main road one end of which is now closed off, so if a bus actually made it to the old stand it could not leave by the old route, would probably annoy the residents, and would need a multiple point turn to change direction. Where exactly was/is the stand? I vaguely remember buses terminating there were blinded for 'Lower Feltham, Three Horseshoes' (and possibly 'Lower Feltham, Sunbury Road' at some point?), but I've no idea where they would stand or turn when they got there. Stand is on Walton Gardens. The adjacent road Shelson Avenue is now closed at the junction with Chertsey Road, therefore at the end of Walton Gardens vehicles will have to turn left to go towards Ashford Road.
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