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Post by vjaska on Jul 23, 2019 18:02:10 GMT
With two weeks to go before the latest changes yellow signs have gone up on stops in Putney saying the 209 will be no more use route 378 instead. No suggestion of a reduction in frequency or that it is a new route! The signs cover the 209 timetables which were the only new timetables put up in the area when the 265 gained a doubling of service to Roehampton and two night buses were introduced. We are still waiting for those timetables to appear. Confusingly I have now discovered that someone has bothered to put the N33 and N72 timetables at stops on at least part of Fulham Palace Road but they remain missing from Lower Richmond Road in Putney. Around 01.00 this morning I finally saw an N33. Unfortunately it was showing 33 Hammersmith so could have confused late night travellers into assuming the bus took the daytime route to Hammersmith Bridge via Barnes as those buses still sometimes mark themselves as Hammersmith bound. Curiously the yellow signs I wrote about two days ago have now been removed and you can once again read the current 209 timetable. Sadly none of the missing or inaccurate timetables have been added or changed. What there is though ( on the shelter not the actual bus stop ) is an unofficial 378 route map that I assume is the work of Yes it is them and they also did the 301 poster - I followed them on Twitter and saw that they aren’t the only posters they do - kudos to them for providing these.
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Post by MetrolineGA1511 on Jul 28, 2019 17:34:07 GMT
There was some controversy when Mortlake garage closed in 1983, as local residents feared route 9 being curtailed at Hammersmith. Of course it eventually was, but replaced by route 9a, later renumbered 209.
Imagine if route 9 had still run Mortlake - Aldwych from M at the time of the closure of Hammersmith Bridge!
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Post by southlondonbus on Jul 28, 2019 17:41:59 GMT
I guess had the 9 still run to Mortlake now there would have been a situation like with the 72 where the 9 was curtailed to Hammersmith Bridge North with either a temporary route for the south section of nothing at all like to Roehampton. Had Hammersmith Bridge not been downgraded in 1992 I do think the 9 would still run to Mortlake. I genuinely think it was have survived the 2003 splits (2/10/36/133 etc) as journey time wouldn't have been much over an hour especially since it lost the Liverpool Street section before hand.
The fact the 209 was every 4-6 mins with SDs shows that a 7-8 mins service with RM/OPODDs/NRM would not have been excessive for that section due to high demand from Mortlake to Hammersmith.
Come the bridge repairs who knows if the 9 will return....
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Post by John tuthill on Jul 28, 2019 18:20:55 GMT
There was some controversy when Mortlake garage closed in 1983, as local residents feared route 9 being curtailed at Hammersmith. Of course it eventually was, but replaced by route 9a, later renumbered 209. Imagine if route 9 had still run Mortlake - Aldwych from M at the time of the closure of Hammersmith Bridge! Especially when M turned out a RM to this standard. And for our younger readers proof that an 8ton +RTW went across the bridge in the early 50's (Not my photos) Attachment DeletedAttachment Deleted
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Post by vjaska on Jul 28, 2019 21:20:32 GMT
I guess had the 9 still run to Mortlake now there would have been a situation like with the 72 where the 9 was curtailed to Hammersmith Bridge North with either a temporary route for the south section of nothing at all like to Roehampton. Had Hammersmith Bridge not been downgraded in 1992 I do think the 9 would still run to Mortlake. I genuinely think it was have survived the 2003 splits (2/10/36/133 etc) as journey time wouldn't have been much over an hour especially since it lost the Liverpool Street section before hand. The fact the 209 was every 4-6 mins with SDs shows that a 7-8 mins service with RM/OPODDs/NRM would not have been excessive for that section due to high demand from Mortlake to Hammersmith. Come the bridge repairs who knows if the 9 will return.... I don't think the 9 would of survived especially if you take into account frequency increases on the 33 & 72 which would of kept their decker routes had the bridge been sorted earlier. However, I don't think the 209 would of appeared either and probably an existing route would of been modified to run to Mortlake. I'd like to think the 209 is restructured if the bridge gets repaired as a Mortlake to White City route or something similar but I'm very skeptical that it will be repaired - the environmental & cyclist lobbies shout loudest as per usual
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Post by redbus on Jul 28, 2019 22:31:36 GMT
I guess had the 9 still run to Mortlake now there would have been a situation like with the 72 where the 9 was curtailed to Hammersmith Bridge North with either a temporary route for the south section of nothing at all like to Roehampton. Had Hammersmith Bridge not been downgraded in 1992 I do think the 9 would still run to Mortlake. I genuinely think it was have survived the 2003 splits (2/10/36/133 etc) as journey time wouldn't have been much over an hour especially since it lost the Liverpool Street section before hand. The fact the 209 was every 4-6 mins with SDs shows that a 7-8 mins service with RM/OPODDs/NRM would not have been excessive for that section due to high demand from Mortlake to Hammersmith. Come the bridge repairs who knows if the 9 will return.... I don't think the 9 would of survived especially if you take into account frequency increases on the 33 & 72 which would of kept their decker routes had the bridge been sorted earlier. However, I don't think the 209 would of appeared either and probably an existing route would of been modified to run to Mortlake. I'd like to think the 209 is restructured if the bridge gets repaired as a Mortlake to White City route or something similar but I'm very skeptical that it will be repaired - the environmental & cyclist lobbies shout loudest as per usual I am probably one of the relatively few people on this forum who not only remember but have travelled on double deckers on the 9 going across Hammersmith Bridge, I also remember the 33 and 72 being double deck (as well the Sunday extension of the 73). If the 9 had been able to retain DDs on Hammersmith Bridge, then so would the 33 and 72, meaning the 33 and 72 may not have had the frequency increases.
Had Hammersmith bridge closed in the days when the 9 ran Mortlake - Aldwych, it would have been a logistical nightmare providing the service north of the river.
What must not be forgotten is that the 9 was withdrawn Mortlake - Hammersmith because when DDs could not no longer go across the bridge making the Hammersmith - Aldwych section single deck was impractical (as it still probably is). If the bridge is repaired to allow DDs there is hope the 9 may be extended back to Mortlake, but it is more hope than expectation given the changed times we are now in.
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Post by southlondonbus on Jul 28, 2019 22:36:41 GMT
NB4L would possibly not fit the Avondale Road terminus preventing the 9 re extending.
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Post by george on Jul 28, 2019 22:44:20 GMT
NB4L would possibly not fit the Avondale Road terminus preventing the 9 re extending. I think even a normal conventional double decker would not fit down there?
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Post by rhys on Jul 28, 2019 22:46:21 GMT
NB4L would possibly not fit the Avondale Road terminus preventing the 9 re extending. We've seen recently with the 88 that having NRMs won't stop routes from being extended. They'll simply be transferred to another route. Plus I think the NRM is often underestimated when it comes to where it can and cannot fit.
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Post by busaholic on Jul 28, 2019 22:47:48 GMT
I don't think the 9 would of survived especially if you take into account frequency increases on the 33 & 72 which would of kept their decker routes had the bridge been sorted earlier. However, I don't think the 209 would of appeared either and probably an existing route would of been modified to run to Mortlake. I'd like to think the 209 is restructured if the bridge gets repaired as a Mortlake to White City route or something similar but I'm very skeptical that it will be repaired - the environmental & cyclist lobbies shout loudest as per usual I am probably one of the relatively few people on this forum who not only remember but have travelled on double deckers on the 9 going across Hammersmith Bridge, I also remember the 33 and 72 being double deck (as well the Sunday extension of the 73). If the 9 had been able to retain DDs on Hammersmith Bridge, then so would the 33 and 72, meaning the 33 and 72 may not have had the frequency increases.
Had Hammersmith bridge closed in the days when the 9 ran Mortlake - Aldwych, it would have been a logistical nightmare providing the service north of the river.
What must not be forgotten is that the 9 was withdrawn Mortlake - Hammersmith because when DDs could not no longer go across the bridge making the Hammersmith - Aldwych section single deck was impractical (as it still probably is). If the bridge is repaired to allow DDs there is hope the 9 may be extended back to Mortlake, but it is more hope than expectation given the changed times we are now in.
Aldwych to Hammersmith had to suffer those little Darts on evenings and Sundays for a while, though, and packed to the gunwales they often were too, even at the high frequency they operated. Not being a masochist, I never travelled on one.
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Post by LT 20181 on Jul 28, 2019 23:12:34 GMT
Where did the 9 terminate in Mortlake before its cutback? Was it Avondale Road like today's 209 or was it a different location?
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Post by kmkcheng on Jul 29, 2019 1:19:43 GMT
Where did the 9 terminate in Mortlake before its cutback? Was it Avondale Road like today's 209 or was it a different location? Up until 1983, it terminated at Mortlake garage before it closed, after which it terminated at Avondale Road
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Post by rif153 on Jul 29, 2019 7:56:43 GMT
I guess had the 9 still run to Mortlake now there would have been a situation like with the 72 where the 9 was curtailed to Hammersmith Bridge North with either a temporary route for the south section of nothing at all like to Roehampton. Had Hammersmith Bridge not been downgraded in 1992 I do think the 9 would still run to Mortlake. I genuinely think it was have survived the 2003 splits (2/10/36/133 etc) as journey time wouldn't have been much over an hour especially since it lost the Liverpool Street section before hand. The fact the 209 was every 4-6 mins with SDs shows that a 7-8 mins service with RM/OPODDs/NRM would not have been excessive for that section due to high demand from Mortlake to Hammersmith. Come the bridge repairs who knows if the 9 will return.... I don't think the 9 would of survived especially if you take into account frequency increases on the 33 & 72 which would of kept their decker routes had the bridge been sorted earlier. However, I don't think the 209 would of appeared either and probably an existing route would of been modified to run to Mortlake. I'd like to think the 209 is restructured if the bridge gets repaired as a Mortlake to White City route or something similar but I'm very skeptical that it will be repaired - the environmental & cyclist lobbies shout loudest as per usual Good to see someone else who supports extending the 209 northward. The route has a lot of potential and extending it to White City/Shepherds Bush would be great
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Post by southlondonbus on Jul 29, 2019 8:18:06 GMT
Either way if the bridge gets fixed then there is potential for the 209 to be more then a 15 minute long feeder service. I wouldn't rule out if it converted to DD and dropped in freq it running to somewhere else like White City. Personally I'd rather see the 9 replace it.
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Post by rm1422 on Jul 29, 2019 8:26:14 GMT
The Avondale Road terminus does fit double deckers. Double decker service continued for some years during the construction of housing on the Mortlake Garage site. The 9 now being based at Stamford Brook. I can't remember exactly when the current road layout at the terminus was finished but it was certainly well before 2004 when Hammersmith & Fulham Council allowed a special exception to the weight limit. This was the year the Routemasters were withdrawn from the 9, A couple of extra runs were allowed to cross the bridge and continue down through Barnes to Mortlake and back. More info some way down this page... countrybus.org/RML/RML7.html
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