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Post by vjaska on Jul 29, 2019 8:48:31 GMT
The Avondale Road terminus does fit double deckers. Double decker service continued for some years during the construction of housing on the Mortlake Garage site. The 9 now being based at Stamford Brook. I can't remember exactly when the current road layout at the terminus was finished but it was certainly well before 2004 when Hammersmith & Fulham Council allowed a special exception to the weight limit. This was the year the Routemasters were withdrawn from the 9, A couple of extra runs were allowed to cross the bridge and continue down through Barnes to Mortlake and back. More info some way down this page... countrybus.org/RML/RML7.htmlOf course, modern buses are longer and wider than a RM and having had a look at the terminus, I can't see a LT negotiating it personally.
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Post by southlondonbus on Jul 29, 2019 9:31:01 GMT
Metrobus' would have run there I guess on Sundays but probably still shorter then most modern DDs.
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Post by vjaska on Jul 29, 2019 10:18:41 GMT
Metrobus' would have run there I guess on Sundays but probably still shorter then most modern DDs. Yes they would given nearly every low floor decker was longer than 10m (SWB Tridents clock in at 9.9m) and much wider. Have to say I don't understand why Mortlake of all places should receive a direct route into Central London just because it had one previously - surely the demand would be Hammersmith & Shepherds Bush, possibly even Westfield.
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Post by busaholic on Jul 29, 2019 10:37:12 GMT
I don't think the 9 would of survived especially if you take into account frequency increases on the 33 & 72 which would of kept their decker routes had the bridge been sorted earlier. However, I don't think the 209 would of appeared either and probably an existing route would of been modified to run to Mortlake. I'd like to think the 209 is restructured if the bridge gets repaired as a Mortlake to White City route or something similar but I'm very skeptical that it will be repaired - the environmental & cyclist lobbies shout loudest as per usual I am probably one of the relatively few people on this forum who not only remember but have travelled on double deckers on the 9 going across Hammersmith Bridge, I also remember the 33 and 72 being double deck (as well the Sunday extension of the 73). If the 9 had been able to retain DDs on Hammersmith Bridge, then so would the 33 and 72, meaning the 33 and 72 may not have had the frequency increases.
Had Hammersmith bridge closed in the days when the 9 ran Mortlake - Aldwych, it would have been a logistical nightmare providing the service north of the river.
What must not be forgotten is that the 9 was withdrawn Mortlake - Hammersmith because when DDs could not no longer go across the bridge making the Hammersmith - Aldwych section single deck was impractical (as it still probably is). If the bridge is repaired to allow DDs there is hope the 9 may be extended back to Mortlake, but it is more hope than expectation given the changed times we are now in.
I went on an AV allocated RT on the 73 over Hammersmith Bridge! In relation to sds on the Hammersmith to Aldwych 9, don't forget those horrible little Darts were inflicted on the 9 on weekday evenings (and Sundays?) for some while: every time I saw them, mainly in the Piccadilly area, they were packed to the gunwales and utterly inappropriate for the use they were being put to. Even Harry Blundred might have conceded that!
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Post by rj131 on Jul 29, 2019 11:40:13 GMT
I am probably one of the relatively few people on this forum who not only remember but have travelled on double deckers on the 9 going across Hammersmith Bridge, I also remember the 33 and 72 being double deck (as well the Sunday extension of the 73). If the 9 had been able to retain DDs on Hammersmith Bridge, then so would the 33 and 72, meaning the 33 and 72 may not have had the frequency increases.
Had Hammersmith bridge closed in the days when the 9 ran Mortlake - Aldwych, it would have been a logistical nightmare providing the service north of the river.
What must not be forgotten is that the 9 was withdrawn Mortlake - Hammersmith because when DDs could not no longer go across the bridge making the Hammersmith - Aldwych section single deck was impractical (as it still probably is). If the bridge is repaired to allow DDs there is hope the 9 may be extended back to Mortlake, but it is more hope than expectation given the changed times we are now in.
I went on an AV allocated RT on the 73 over Hammersmith Bridge! In relation to sds on the Hammersmith to Aldwych 9, don't forget those horrible little Darts were inflicted on the 9 on weekday evenings (and Sundays?) for some while: every time I saw them, mainly in the Piccadilly area, they were packed to the gunwales and utterly inappropriate for the use they were being put to. Even Harry Blundred might have conceded that! Wait whaaaat?? The 9 has ran with single deckers before because of Hammersmith bridge?
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Post by southlondonbus on Jul 29, 2019 11:47:34 GMT
Yes. In 1992 the OPO Sunday element was converted to Darts so it would run through to Mortlake then in 1993 the evening service converted aswell. I'm guessing it ended in 1997 when the 209 was introduced daily.
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Post by busaholic on Jul 29, 2019 11:56:59 GMT
I went on an AV allocated RT on the 73 over Hammersmith Bridge! In relation to sds on the Hammersmith to Aldwych 9, don't forget those horrible little Darts were inflicted on the 9 on weekday evenings (and Sundays?) for some while: every time I saw them, mainly in the Piccadilly area, they were packed to the gunwales and utterly inappropriate for the use they were being put to. Even Harry Blundred might have conceded that! Wait whaaaat?? The 9 has ran with single deckers before because of Hammersmith bridge? It was when Routemasters still worked the 9 that Hammersmith Bridge was first closed to dds. A 9A was then created at the Mortlake end, worked by Darts. Looking at Ian Martin's site, the 9 still worked through on Sundays, completely converted to Dart operation: apparently weekday evening operation of the 9 was meant to be with buses off the 237, but I certainly remember those Darts on it then, though maybe they were in a minority.
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Post by John tuthill on Jul 29, 2019 12:07:54 GMT
I went on an AV allocated RT on the 73 over Hammersmith Bridge! In relation to sds on the Hammersmith to Aldwych 9, don't forget those horrible little Darts were inflicted on the 9 on weekday evenings (and Sundays?) for some while: every time I saw them, mainly in the Piccadilly area, they were packed to the gunwales and utterly inappropriate for the use they were being put to. Even Harry Blundred might have conceded that! Wait whaaaat?? The 9 has ran with single deckers before because of Hammersmith bridge? Yes, and here is the proof(Picture from Ian Armstrongs bus route page) Attachment Deleted
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Post by kmkcheng on Jul 29, 2019 12:14:44 GMT
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Post by John tuthill on Jul 29, 2019 12:30:47 GMT
Touche-but it still proves that SDs did run in lieu of DDs on the Hammersmith to Mortlake section
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Post by southlondonbus on Jul 29, 2019 12:33:34 GMT
Where did the 9A stand in Kensington. At the same stand the C1 used to use?
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Post by thelondonthing on Jul 29, 2019 12:35:06 GMT
Yes. In 1992 the OPO Sunday element was converted to Darts so it would run through to Mortlake then in 1993 the evening service converted aswell. I'm guessing it ended in 1997 when the 209 was introduced daily. I have a very distant memory of being a young child and getting the 9 from Hyde Park Corner to Hammersmith with my dad, and being absolutely FURIOUS that it was a boring Dart instead of a fancy Routemaster - so much so that I very dramatically pouted and sulked all the way home. Until now, I half-thought I'd imagined that whole memory...! While obviously rare in central London, there were several years during which various outer London routes were Dart-operated on Sundays. Regrettably, this included several routes which remained very busy on Sundays, making the Darts wholly inappropriate - especially during shopping hours. The 111 (operated from AV) was one example, which had its Metrobuses replaced on Sundays by a mix of DR- and DT-class Darts, which I think had capacities of 50 (28 seated + 22 standing) and 41 (22+19) respectively. These single-door vehicles were less than suitable - while the Sunday timetable already meant fewer buses in services compared with weekdays, capacity-per-bus was effectively halved too (which meant lots of bus stops driven past, leaving waiting passengers behind), and there were long dwell times at stops as passengers towards the back would have to fight their way through a jam of people and shopping to get off. Did the 120 also have Darts on Sundays for a time, or have I imagined that?
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Post by southlondonbus on Jul 29, 2019 12:53:27 GMT
The 7 used Darts on evenings/Sundays until contract renewal in 2000 thou this would probably mroe due to a lack of OPO DDs at X as they only had the 18 to release enough buses for the 7 and 23.
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Post by John tuthill on Jul 29, 2019 13:02:29 GMT
Where did the 9A stand in Kensington. At the same stand the C1 used to use? I don't know about that, but here is an extract from the bus map courtesy of Ian Armstrongs bus page Attachment Deleted
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Post by redexpress on Jul 29, 2019 13:23:45 GMT
Where did the 9A stand in Kensington. At the same stand the C1 used to use? I don't know about that, but here is an extract from the bus map courtesy of Ian Armstrongs bus page It's more or less the current 360 terminus, but was referred to as "Kensington, Queen's Gate" rather than Royal Albert Hall.
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