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Post by Alex on Jan 27, 2016 1:24:51 GMT
Glad to hear you're enjoying NS - and the post about the short wheelbase TA's is very interesting (as are all on this thread). Keep 'em coming Mr 10301 and happy driving!
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Post by Alex on Jan 27, 2016 1:09:36 GMT
Just glad your Grandad wasn't hurt! Some of these low-lifes operate like that - they will never face the person, be it young, old, big or small. They have to do faceless stupid things amongst their own, pitiful really. Saying that I had my bike nicked from the locked shed at PD, in a garden with a big brick wall round it. Be two years ago this summer, I have never got over the loss of old Pedals (my pet name for my mountain bike), it wasn't the most expensive bike - I bought it for £300 out of Halfords in 2009, but it rode very nicely and I had swapped bits about (the best one being when I discovered slick road tyres - whoosh), and I lost 4 stone in weight doing walks around SE London when I moved here (and learning the local area very well in the process) and going for long rides on Pedals. It was the sentimental thing and the thought that some scumbag had been in the garden and the shed where I live. I was advised by a biking bloke at work it was almost certainly kids, as I had a bike that was about five years old and cost £300, serious bike thieves wouldn't have entertained it. Serious thieves would only target a £1000+ new bike. This made me feel worse as it was a big headache for me and minimal gain for whoever did it
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Post by Alex on Jan 27, 2016 1:00:01 GMT
Grandad's car was broken into and vandalised horrifically ...while parked in the locked garage. I'm really sorry to hear about your grandad - I was genuinely saddened when I read that. Hoping that things got sorted out in the end, and nothing else has happened since (I get mad reading about these things, my grandad is 85 now and if someone wronged him I'm not sure how I would take it)
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Post by Alex on Jan 27, 2016 0:07:45 GMT
312- Used to be a trunk route from Peckham to South Croydon until it switched with the 197 which was also a route of it's shadow self formerly from Norwood Junction to Caterham know just a round the corner route. A majority of routes can be used especially the current central London trunk routes Ah - you took the one I was thinking of! Yes, the 312 is an odd one. When I first discovered this route, I had no idea of the history (just seeing what it is front of you you'd think it was always a local route), when I saw the history it was very much an eye opener Still miss the old 469, which used to run Queen Elizabeth Hosp to Bexleyheath via Erith but has since been cut back to Erith Yes, I found there was a strange sort of charm with this route when BX ran it with LDPs. The red livery and green grab-poles, coupled with the areas it goes through (where nothing's probably changed much for 30 years) gave it an 'old-world' type feel reminiscent of London surburban routes in the LT days. Mind you, someone got out there back in 2009 (and I wish camera phones etc were as good quality then as now, the idea behind this film is pretty good): www.youtube.com/watch?v=dOWh-srOZBQ
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Post by Alex on Jan 26, 2016 23:59:38 GMT
Yes! At last - I have no problem at all with the closure, to get a better service in the long run (again with a delay on longer trains in the meantime). I am a semi-frequent user of this - when I meet my other half at work sometimes, we go for Turkish meal at Green Lanes, then get the Overground back to Wanstead Park. It's a fantastic route - the fastest you'll do North to East London. Unfortunately, the two car trains are nowhere near enough for the amount of people, and (apparently) the frequency can't be improved due to freight train working. It really is hell on wheels. So crowded and such an unpleasant experience. You could argue that my journey is leisure, so avoidable, but on the big picture the route desperately needs longer trains so I'd back this shutdown for a better result in the end.
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Post by Alex on Jan 26, 2016 23:51:51 GMT
I know Alex probably won't like me saying this But any routes they travel via Woolwich, Plumstead, and Thamesmead get my nomination. Which includes routes 51, 53, 96, 99, 122, 161, 177, 180, 401, 469, 472 and many many more.. Hey Nathan (that tag thing is cool by the way - now I've got to figure out how to do it), I don't mind at all - in fact I was thinking of posting something on the PD patch on here but didn't in case it caused upset, or anyone thinking I was 'bigging up' (if you see what I mean, there's lots of people in rougher areas who tend to do this) my local area...... The most stark bit of this area has got to be Yarnton Way - I was gonna suggest bits of the 180 (such as Yarnton, and bits of Abbey Wood) but this route is balanced out by serving places as Greenwich Town Centre and the trunk road through Charlton. Plumstead itself is a pretty poor area of London. When we had work going on next door (for a few months, a chap with his friends doing his house up to put on rent) there were people in suits knocking on doors. Not sure what they were selling/asking for. All I heard was him saying to them "well, good luck to you, you're in one of the poorest areas of London and you're asking for stuff on doors - I wouldn't have the conscience to do it" 177 has the hallmarks of a rough route - it links Thamesmead with Peckham (!) going though New Cross, Deptford Bridge, Charlton, Woolwich, Plumstead and Abbey Wood - strangely, I have never seen any grief on it, and I'm a very regular user of this bus. I think 'Steve 09' is the expert on the PD routes, but from my perspective, the 177 is a good route to use. I wouldn't have said the 51 was a deprived route - it mainly serves semi-detached land. 122 has a lot of affluent areas on it too. 96 seems quite a 'chav' route (apologies for using this, but it's want of a better description). 99 goes through Slade Green - say no more. The first time I went through there on my bike about three years ago there were kids in the streets throwing bottles everywhere and walking around with planks of wood , I also read on here a few years ago that the 89 drivers had all their stand time at Lewisham with only two mins stand at Slade Green just to keep them out of the area. I think this has changed now but I certainly remember Egg or LC1 posting it. SE London buses are a strange one to work out. After a very late shift, my route home is an N9 from West London, then a (N)53. Now, a night route doing Elephant, Old Kent Road, New Cross, Deptford Bridge, Charlton, Woolwich again has the hallmarks of a bad run. On the other hand, the N9 doing Hammersmith, Kensington, Knightsbridge etc should be a breeze. WRONG! The N9 is a hellish experience, while the 53 doesn't see much trouble (or at least when I've been on it). I think the 53 is more a 'locals' bus for people who just want to get home or what-have-you. The correlation of 'deprived area - horrible route' isn't an easy one to summarise. My 53 journeys are so much better than the N155 trips I used to travel on when I lived in that part of the world. The more affluent (well, these days) areas of Clapham and Balham presented some truly nasty people. The middle class type brigade (and again, sorry if this sounds narrow minded) on a night bus makes it a very uncomfortable experience. The more 'down to earth' areas generally give people who just want to get on with it, and have no hassle
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Post by Alex on Jan 20, 2016 0:46:45 GMT
South West Trains have been running the network in South West London for ages. I wonder what they're doing so right. Based on the comments from a prolific poster to other forums - absolutely nothing!! He hates everything about SWT and despises the way they treat users of inner suburban services (that he uses). To be fair SWT shovel a load of cash back to government so they'll be happy. Furthermore I do think SWT aren't bad at fleet engineering - they have some good depots and seem focused on being very efficient and trying to avoid breakdowns (e.g. retractioning the 455s and excellent care of the 159 DMUs). Cue Mr WinterSoldier / SpringMarine / SummerSubmariner / AutumnPilot [1] to tell me different. [1] sorry for this lunacy but I was wildly musing earlier today as to whether the posting name had seasonal and personnel variations. I lived out in Hampshire for a few years with my mum, and couldn't fault SWT. Their trains were in superb condition, the guards were very friendly and any delays were more down the the Network Rail side of things as opposed to SWT mismanagement. If there were delays, SWT were good at informing people what was going on, and making new arrangements (short notice diversions, non stop of stations etc) to make up time. My experience with Southeastern is a bit different - indeed I was out with a mate from Crayford the other night, he told me of the hatred and feeling of incompetence that the public have for Southeastern before I saw this thread.....it's been like it for years. The operator that gets me is Southern, tatty trains, poor reliability, the impression for the traveller is that it's a very 'on the cheap' sort of network (and I believe the same company as Southeastern running it).... The grimmest service I have used was the 'One' service out of Liverpool Street (Lea Valley lines, as opposed to main line, which I've never used) a few years ago, thoroughly depressing.
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Post by Alex on Jan 19, 2016 23:38:42 GMT
I agree that WH aren't the best with customer service either, the only route I haven't had problems with there is the 238. Other routes generally don't have good staff conduct or good service operation I know that the WH routes aren't exactly the most glamorous in London (and the passenger profile matches), but there's other depots out there with the same sort of routes and the difference in staff is quite noticeable. I don't normally say such things (in my earlier post) about the staff, as I know they do a very important job in harsh circumstances these days. I also know that it's only the minority that do stuff that is out of order. Thing is, each time a bus drives past you, or drives past the stop, or won't let people on when they could do, there's always that doubt in the back of your mind......are they making a genuine mistake or being nasty? It's the latter bit that upsets me, as the chance of someone, that doesn't even know me, wants to upset me for nothing really is a kick in the teeth. When I think of the episodes I have had, I kind of imagine it's 90% probably a mistake, or 10% malicious. It's the 10% that gets me, and it was with that 10% I wrote my last post. I felt a bit harsh towards the mentor chap, in fact I've just seen him with a trainee on the 177 , I'm sure he's probably ok really, of course I remember the good drivers too - as said on route 86 I'd had good experiences, and less so on the WH routes. I know how trying the public are as well, so it's not an easy situation with a 'one size fits all' method for every event. Sorry to divert (!) Mr. 10301, just I felt a bit harsh over last post so thought I'd explain I don't think it's all bad, I am impressed with the job the vast majority of the staff do, but sometimes the minority spoil it (same as any profession really)
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Post by Alex on Jan 18, 2016 22:29:20 GMT
The service on the 86 is atrocious from my experience. It's like every other day I'm filing out a complaint about a member of staff on the bus. Today one 86 thought it was perfectly acceptable to completely miss a stop as one 86 was already there despite the fact people were waving it down. Another time a driver decided to only let 10 people on his bus despite the bus was completely empty and could have taken well above 30 people. I don't see how you can only chose to let 10 people on the bus and nobody else, what did the extra people ever do to the driver? One of the more interesting cases I saw was when a teacher at a school was supervising students onto buses and the driver decided to have a huge argument with the teacher who was trying to help him out. He said something about school children taking up unnecessary space on the bus when people could be getting to work (at 3pm ) In terms of customer service I would say the best garages in the area are BK and DX, they noth operate routes which can be full of different types of people yet the drivers (generally) do their job very well. I do often try to make note of drivers that always smile when people get on a bus and I send off a thank you to them via the TfL website. Crikey - those episodes sound terrible, sorry to hear you experienced those events and I'll admit I'm glad I haven't seen that side of the 86. Whenever I've used it the staff have been really polite - may be that I've been lucky. For general manners and friendliness, the worst garage for me by far is WH. Worst for messing things up (not stopping at bus stops etc) is PD. Only the other day a 122 drove straight past me at Sydenham despite the fact I had my arm out for ages before. Fortunately I was able to jog up the road and catch it up, but sadly was out of breath to ask the driver for an explanation. Another time was a 53 that shot straight past me at Trinity Church, the driver of the Volvo actually looking at me as he passed the stop with the cab light on. The worrying thing is that the next time I saw this individual he was wearing a hi viz with 'Mentor' on it, if the training staff can't even get it right themselves then no wonder things are a mess. Then there was the person who had loads of time before the stop when the bell was rung, then decided to go straight past it with no acknowledgement of the subsequent bell rings that happened afterwards, and no apology when I eventually got off. It really feels like there are some twisted spiteful individuals driving buses and they do this on purpose - it's such an infuriating experience but then there is scope that it's a genuine mistake. Because of this I'm loath to write in and complain, I'd like to complain about the genuine bad drivers, but don't want to stitch up a decent driver who is ok 99.9% of the time and I see them on a bad day....... The one I should have reported was the inexcusable behaviour of a 330 driver (WH again) last May Bank Holiday. He was a very nasty individual and his attitude not suited to his role.
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Post by Alex on Jan 18, 2016 1:01:03 GMT
Bit of a rubbish comparison, but I found the whole 'Crossway - Bentham Road' thing a pain to get to used to in Thamesmead. Couldn't remember which way the 472 went round the loop for ages, then the penny dropped - a Thamesmead Town Centre outbound trip would hit Crossway first (any people wanting the direct routing crossing the road to the stop by Wilko/Next, or the last stop in Bentham Road) - this being true also of 177, 229 and 401 heading to Crossway, a good memory prompt.
386 is a strange one from Woolwich, heading away from there to then head towards Shooters Hill. As for complete local networks that bewilder me, I always found the one way system in Sutton an odd one, with so many local 'bendy, round houses' routes such as the S routes, 80 and 151.
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Post by Alex on Jan 18, 2016 0:44:15 GMT
Well, you've certainly answered the question about getting the NS routes in - and a bit more! Sounds as you enjoyed the day on the 86, guessing as have a transfer to NS that the journey to and from home was a good deal easier too, so plus points all round I do enjoy using the 86, the drivers on there are noticeably more friendly and helpful than those on the 25 - mind you, the 25 being such a hard route to work on, I am not sure if this does the 25 drivers the most justice. 86 still carries very heavy loads though and the people I've met on there are very professional. There seems an air of the 'old school proud' bus attitude on there - I read somewhere (EDIT - here: www.ukbusawards.org.uk/content/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=871&Itemid=539) that the average service at NS is around 15 years, so this would make sense. Anyhow, hope you get to NS sooner rather than later, the Havering buses (as I said somewhere on here) seem a nicer part of the network than most of London
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Post by Alex on Jan 18, 2016 0:17:00 GMT
On balance I think I-Bus has been a good development and has helped improve bus services for Londoners. Anyone disagree? No Mr. Snoggle, I don't disagree at all , it would be a right royal pain to be without it these days. I recall the first time I saw it used, on route 93 when I was living down that way. I didn't know what it was at first, myself and the ex conductor I was renting a room from at the time describing it as 'the voice'. We thought it was purely an info thing for passengers on board, and didn't come to realise the other benefits until later on. Also, I'd like to point out that with our first name for it, I'd rather spend an hour listening to iBus announcements than the namesake show on the tv At the time the announcements seemed a pain, and the old school ex-conductor had to do it down with "what do they think everyone's stupid and don't know where they're going" sort of thing. However, it became routine very quickly and seemed odd to go on another local route where iBus hadn't been introduced yet. Since then I have found this an immense help in unfamiliar areas, and also in conditions where you can't see out of bus windows due to condensation etc. Also from an anorak point of view hearing a route you like (or have some sort of connection with) is quite reassuring. Hearing '53, to Plumstead Station' on my way home via night bus is quite comforting (for want of a better description). Having the driver PA is brilliant too, just wish more used it to announce diversions, holding back etc. Also the iBus playing up can raise a few smiles (or get tempers up) too. I recall one 122 journey back one night where it continually announced '122, to Plumstead Bus Garage' followed by 'for your child's safety, please remain with your buggy' followed by the next stop three times, then the destination about three times, then the buggy thing again. I think, as I was in a jovial mood coming back from a night out, I appreciated this the right way heading down the Westhorne Avenue Guessing this poster may be a member here, but here's a good example of iBus being naughty: www.youtube.com/watch?v=jgPT_Y1g_p8Then moving onto Countdown, and - the phenomenon that is London Vehicle Finder, I can't fault it. I'd hate to be without these now and indeed a lot of people (both in TfL and out) have worked hard. I'm not sure everyone appreciates it though, was chatting to a PD driver who said "the job was loads better before they tracked the buses - we did loads of skiving"
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Post by Alex on Jan 11, 2016 13:38:17 GMT
The conclusions of the book (which I won't reveal) are rather more balanced and fair-minded than you give the author credit for. One interviewee in particular recounts experience of the 'sharp end' of privatisation. It wouldn't do anyone any good if the book sugar-coated history, nice or not. Not meant at you personally. No, it's ok - I see what you mean and sorry if I seemed harsh. No the book, as far as I have read, is not lopsided or biased. I know the author of old. He's a perfectly decent chap and given that he knows an awful lot of the people who are quoted in the book he's not going to skew what they said. He was also a victim of the tendering and privatisation process so he has no reason to view it as overly beneficial. The book also does not deny that there was expertise and good people in LT. Glad the book isn't as angled as I thought was - I'm sure it's a very good read and well worth the investment. Just that I get a bit sensitive over the era of private takeovers, listening to the stories from the ex LT people it sounds like a very scary time. Then I hear from more current people about a culture of trying to sack people on old contracts over any little thing (to get new contract people in on terms beneficial to the company), a culture of fear about taking defective buses off the road (and losing mileage), rosters which are very harsh indeed and unrealistic timetables. Also the worsening of contracts as newer people start. Ever since I saw the Ken Loach film 'The Navigators' (based on events from Connex South Eastern) I find the private world very worrying, and with the current government not seeming the kindest on workers rights and conditions, this makes things even more severe...... I know there's pros and cons to any situation, but the 'one operator' thing is an issue which will always strike a chord with me.....
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Post by Alex on Jan 10, 2016 19:32:56 GMT
I'm sorry but you can throw all your politics in the bin, regardless of your philosophy Charming I won't keep quoting from the book because that's unfair to the author but it is featuring insights from a wide range of people who were there and knew what was going on and what was wrong. I was starting to think that it might not be worth looking for the book at this rate.......the wide range of people will be people the author has chosen though, I'm pretty certain there are many LT employees who worked very hard who would disagree with the description LT was a joke. When I lived in North Cheam my landlord was an ex conductor of Victoria and Putney garages, and his mate would come round once a week for a chat (ex driver at Victoria, Putney, Merton and Sutton). The stories they told me of the LT days were from another world. The staff were proud of the job they did and while there were times not far away from an episode of 'On The Buses' these times were not done just for the sake of it and to inconvenience all and sundry.......the skillset back then was phenomenal. The roadside controllers had no radios, no iBus, no tracking, it was all done by sharp eye and experience. The drivers and conductors had to rely on experience and 'tricks of the trade' to deliver the optimum service. It almost seems this book has been written in such a way to make privatisation sound wonderful. Talking to the two blokes I mentioned earlier, the time of the takeover was far from good....... I think that these days, if you bought back LT with the level of recording and technology that we have today, the picture would be very different. There are far more tools these days and the 'all seeing eye' is evident. Apologies to sound negative in this post but this book doesn't sound very nice. It seems to tarnish the reputation of many former transport workers in the capital Heading back to the original jist of the thread, I would indeed say that one operator would work best. It would be the best thing to resolve the issues that the Unite union are always looking into. I would also like to see the radically different conditions/agreements/working practices between each company raised to a better level, which this would also go a long way to solve too. Sadly I don't think it'll happen any time soon (if at all) but to answer the question about running as one operator - this forum member gives it the yes vote
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Post by Alex on Jan 10, 2016 14:09:38 GMT
what an unmitigated disaster LT's bus operation had become by the early 1980s. The book has a range of insights from people at various levels in LT and it's clear that the organisation had become ossified, was reluctant to change, initiative was frowned on, performance was diabolical and engineering was a joke.. Thing is, could this have been the same situation on the buses as it was with Network South East - deliberately run down the service and investment to make people think privatisation would be a really good alternative? The argument for re-nationalising the railways comes up almost constantly, I think there's similar principles in play for buses. However, this book sounds very good, must keep an eye out. The other one that I'd like is the second part of 'London's Night Buses' - part one is certainly worth a butchers.
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