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Post by overgroundcommuter on Jun 1, 2022 23:57:33 GMT
I know I shouldn't be fixating on the numbers - they're the least important bit really - but it all becomes a lot clearer once you see through TfL's Numberwang. The 24 is still there really: it's just lost the Westminster Abbey to Pimlico bit and been diverted over the 88 to Clapham instead. The 205 is really the 214 shortened to PHF and extended to Mile End with a tweak around Liverpool St. The old 88's still there, just extended to Highgate and shortened to Pimlico. The 11's still there, just rerouted over the 211 to Waterloo. There are some genuinely bad cuts but there's also a lot of smoke and mirrors to make it look even worse. And the 12 is still there between Parliament Square and Dulwich and regains the western end of the old route reconnecting Peckham with Notting Hill, Holland Park and Shepherd's Bush. The 148 was originally created to maintain links from Camberwell and Walworth Road with those parts of West London.
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Post by overgroundcommuter on Jun 1, 2022 23:53:36 GMT
Interesting how Bermondsey will get two trunk routes. The 1 from Hampstead Heath to Canada Water and the 388 from Stratford to Peckham.
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Post by overgroundcommuter on Jun 1, 2022 22:42:59 GMT
Those Thameslink trains between Nunhead and Peckham Rye will get even busier once the 78 has been scrapped which will only result in less people using buses as the P12 will be rammed.
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Post by overgroundcommuter on Jun 1, 2022 22:40:32 GMT
Regarding the loss of bus services to hospitals, the access to Guys lost when the 40 was re-routed was ignored. They'll finally get their wish to cut the 53 which will see 12 and 53 passengers getting onto 453s to St Thomas'.
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Post by overgroundcommuter on Jun 1, 2022 22:30:27 GMT
Puzzled. Why would you do that? Is it not cheaper and quicker to change at Canada Water for the Jubilee, using the pink validators so you don't get a zone 1 fare? First route that came off the top of my head but yes your correct that route you suggested is better but it still proves my main point I think that's another reason why the 78 is getting the axe. Peckham residents can get to Shoreditch using the Overground from Peckham Rye than on the bus.
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Post by overgroundcommuter on Jun 1, 2022 18:44:40 GMT
I think the people of Peckham and Camberwell will understand that the 12 will no longer serve Oxford Street For sentimental reasons I'd like to keep the number 12 but I don't think there is any rational case for doing so. The 148 will be as it is now, Bush to Camberwell with an extension to Dulwich so pretty simple for the average passenger to understand. The only remnants of the 12 will be the 312 and tenuously the 412 which replaced part of the old 12A. The 197 also covers the Peckham to Woodside Green section of the old 12/12A.
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Post by overgroundcommuter on Jun 1, 2022 15:07:14 GMT
Route 3 sends it somewhere useful instead of being continually cut back and opens new connections from Palace to Horseferry Road and a direct bus to Victoria for the first time since the days of the 2 went up there. This will be useful as the Southern trains service from CP to Victoria isn't great.
The 12/148 idea appears to be the least worst solution. It maintains a connection from Barry Road into Central London via Peckham and Camberwell and maintains a link to St Thomas' Hospital from those areas. It also re-establishes a link from Peckham to Notting Hill Gate and Shepherd's Bush lost years ago when the 12 was turned into a bendy route. At night, Dulwich will see a night bus route connection to Victoria which hasn't been there since the days of the N79. It ensures the 40 continues to support the 176 and 185 up to Camberwell. Those who want to get to Oxford Circus or Trafalgar Square have the option of the 453 or the Bakerloo line.
Nunhead will once again have a dire bus service with the scrapping of the 78, with passengers having to get on crowded P12 services which doesn't even serve the train station.
I don't think the 388 is the best solution to covering the core 78 section between Bermondsey and Peckham due to the reliability issues in East London.
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Post by overgroundcommuter on May 27, 2022 20:27:14 GMT
176 to East Dulwich 176 to home 176 to Forest Hill London Overground to Whitechapel Elizabeth line to Tottenham Court Road Elizabeth Line to Whitechapel London Overground to Forest Hill 197 to home.
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Post by overgroundcommuter on May 27, 2022 20:20:08 GMT
I haven't been on the Elizabeth line yet (I'm trying to find an excuse to bash!), but from all the YouTube videos I've seen this week is how the acceleration is so fast, but nowhere as noisy as being on a tube train or even a 378 unit, plus the journey times. Abbey Wood to TCR in 23 minutes is astounding considering how slow the existing services are. It's certainly well worth a visit and on the Charing Cross service from Abbey Wood 23 minutes would get you just past Lewisham. I finally went on the Elizabeth line today. A quick trip from Whitechapel to Tottenham Court Road. Very impressed with everything I saw and managed to get a seat on both journeys during the evening peak.
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Post by overgroundcommuter on May 26, 2022 23:27:51 GMT
I haven't been on the Elizabeth line yet (I'm trying to find an excuse to bash!), but from all the YouTube videos I've seen this week is how the acceleration is so fast, but nowhere as noisy as being on a tube train or even a 378 unit, plus the journey times. Abbey Wood to TCR in 23 minutes is astounding considering how slow the existing services are.
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Post by overgroundcommuter on May 26, 2022 23:20:17 GMT
Thameslink most certainly isn't redundant, a full service has now resumed and it will continue to provide a useful service. If there is any reduction as a result of Crossrail opening it should be on Southeastern to Cannon Street. Crossrail is faster to Farringdon and serves more areas where people want to go than Thameslink does and to those east of Woolwich/Abbey Wood, Thameslink is most certainly redundant as it’s slow, it’ll only really be useful from Charlton inwards but Crossrail is the game changer this neck of the woods has been waiting for, Thameslink is back to 2tph (after only four years) but Crossrail will be 12tph It's an absolute game changer. I watched a TikTok from an Abbey Wood resident who now leaves at 8.30 and is at Tottenham Court Road with time to spare before starting work at 9am. Unthinkable when they had to do Abbey Wood to Charing Cross and then the Northern Line. Until the Autumn, Abbey Wood will still be a frustrating place to reach on Sundays with only snail paced Southeastern and Thameslink services serving the station or the even slower RRBs.
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Post by overgroundcommuter on May 26, 2022 22:26:16 GMT
If the 78 hadn't been diverted to Nunhead, I think that would have been a shoe-in.
So as someone else suggested, re-routing the 40 via Peckham would keep the link between Barry Road and Elephant, but I'm unsure if adding a couple of buses per hour on the 176 or 185 would resolve the issue of buses being packed before reaching Dulwich Library in the peaks, which is why the 40 was sent to Dulwich in the first place along Lordship Lane to relieve those routes and give passengers a chance of getting a seat.
This leaves two possibilities, the 381 would connect Dulwich with Surrey Quays, Canada Water and Rotherhithe. Dulwich hasn't had a bus route to Surrey Quays or Canada Water since the P13 was rerouted to New Cross Sainsbury's or sending the 63 down Barry Road instead which would restore a high frequency service along Barry Road along with new connections to King's Cross. However, the 40 duplicates the Elephant to Clerkenwell Green section of the 63. Also would the 363 cope with Honor Oak passengers and a much reduced bus service along Forest Hill Road?
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Post by overgroundcommuter on May 26, 2022 21:25:20 GMT
Considering the 197 is an outer London route, it could be in for a frequency increase which would resolve the loss of the 12 without having to re-route an existing route to Dulwich. The rest of the route does not really need it ....and the overlap is such a small section of the route. The section between Forest Hill and Peckham is easily the busiest section of the route and if it's going to be the only route running there, then a small increase, possibly 6bph instead of five and 4bph on Sundays isn't a big ask.
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Post by overgroundcommuter on May 26, 2022 20:48:43 GMT
Considering the 197 is an outer London route, it could be in for a frequency increase which would resolve the loss of the 12 without having to re-route an existing route to Dulwich.
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Post by overgroundcommuter on May 24, 2022 22:44:36 GMT
Is there a reason TfL fares are different on the tube compared to the Elizabeth Line? For example Zone 3 to Zone 6 is £1.90 on the Underground compared to £2.50 on the Elizabeth Line. There's a special 'Anglia' fare table for stations outside Zone 1 which also affect London Overground services from Liverpool Street which was implemented to protect GA's revenue. This only affects stations east of Stratford on the Elizabeth Line for local journeys. The Zone 1 fare is on the standard fare scale from those stations. The other stations are under the standard TfL fare scale in Zones 1-6.
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