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Post by busman on Nov 29, 2018 13:00:18 GMT
Will be weird not seeing the 180 in Lewisham, but at least I'll have the 129 to the 02 arena along with the 108. Wonder if these changes will happen soon? Why is the 472 being cut? The 472 is being cut as the 301 will add extra capacity between Abbey Wood and Woolwich. The 180 will now duplicate the 472 between Woolwich and North Greenwich, which wasn’t proposed initially. Whether the Charlton to North Greenwich extras continue to run remains to be seen. In theory they should do as that demand will not be impacted by the Lizzie Line.
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Post by busman on Nov 29, 2018 12:19:08 GMT
Results / Proposals updated 27 Nov consultations.tfl.gov.uk/buses/elizabeth-line/We will go ahead with the changes as consulted on for routes 129, 161, 178, 291, 469, 472 and B11. We will also be implementing the changes to route 180 and the introduction of route 301. However, following the consultation responses and further review, the changes to these routes will go ahead with the following alterations: •Route 180 will be run between Erith Quarry and North Greenwich, but will be rerouted between Charlton and North Greenwich via Bugsby’s Way instead of via Peartree Way •Route 301 will be introduced between Bexleyheath and Woolwich. However it will use double deck buses and will run via Woolwich Road and New Road instead of via Knee Hill We will not be converting route 244 to double deck operation at this time. So what’s new? For me this update fails to answer the key question of when these changes will actually take place “We will be introducing these changes in line with the phased opening of the Elizabeth line or in response to wider bus network changes.....” Seems TfL have left this open to their own short term decision making. Personally I’m actually excited about the 180 change as it means I will have a direct bus from my area to the O2 and Bugsby’s Way. That’s no consolation to passengers between Plumstead and Greenwich who will have to cram onto a 177. We are actually getting a bus cut between Woolwich and Greenwich which is crazy considering the use levels, but that’s a sign of the times. Looking forward to seeing deckers on the 291 carrying fresh air in the evenings and weekday daytime. I guess it was too much for TfL to simply increase Monday to Saturday peak frequencies to meet demand.
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Post by busman on Nov 27, 2018 21:01:49 GMT
Well this is fun. Given that this is fantasy I’m surprised by all the normal suggestions. I would trial a handful of super services to check demand ahead of introducing more Christmas services in future. They would serve areas that are quite busy during Christmas day as well as catering for journeys to and from Heathrow. Flat rate fare of £2.50, no hopper fare or Oyster capping applies. 801 - Plumstead Garage to Hayes By Pass via route 53 to Whitehall; then to Piccadilly; then route 94 to Shepherds Bush Green; then route 207 to Hayes By Pass 802 - North Finchley to South Croydon via route 13 to Victoria; then route 2 to West Norwood; then 468 to South Croydon 803 - Romford to Oxford Circus via route 86 to Stratford; then route 25 to Holborn Circus; then via the old 25 routing to Oxford Circus 800 series routes run 8am to 6pm, every 30-60 minutes 105 - Heathrow to Greenford Station - airport operating hours only 140 - Heathrow to Harrow Weald - airport operating hours only X26 - Heathrow to Croydon - airport operating hours only Some good ideas there. I would be tempted though to have numbers that more closely mirror equivalent routes, so that people understand better where they go. So here is how I would amend your proposals: 801 - I'd split this into two routes: 807 Hayes By-Pass to Oxford Circus (possibly Holborn) and 853 Plumstead Common - Oxford Circus. 802 - I'd split this into 813 North Finchley to Victoria, and run the 802 Trafalgar Square - Croydon. 803 - numbered 825, still Romford-Oxford Circus. Four more routes I would add: 809 - Heathrow Airport (Terminal 5) to Aldwych via the same route as the N9. 818 - Harrow and Sudbury to Baker Street and on to Oxford Circus (for connectivity). 829 - Enfield Town and Trafalgar Square 859 - Oxford Circus and Croydon via 159/109 route. To the Airport routes I would add the 490 and U3; I would also have the X26 call at all stops en-route (perhaps renumber it 826). Nah mate, that totally spoils my fantasy of my family catching one bus from one side of London to the other for Christmas with each other. Fantasy and reality don’t mix.
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Post by busman on Nov 27, 2018 19:42:08 GMT
Well this is fun. Given that this is fantasy I’m surprised by all the normal suggestions. I would trial a handful of super services to check demand ahead of introducing more Christmas services in future. They would serve areas that are quite busy during Christmas day as well as catering for journeys to and from Heathrow. Flat rate fare of £2.50, no hopper fare or Oyster capping applies. 801 - Plumstead Garage to Hayes By Pass via route 53 to Whitehall; then to Piccadilly; then route 94 to Shepherds Bush Green; then route 207 to Hayes By Pass 802 - North Finchley to South Croydon via route 13 to Victoria; then route 2 to West Norwood; then 468 to South Croydon 803 - Romford to Oxford Circus via route 86 to Stratford; then route 25 to Holborn Circus; then via the old 25 routing to Oxford Circus 800 series routes run 8am to 6pm, every 30-60 minutes 105 - Heathrow to Greenford Station - airport operating hours only 140 - Heathrow to Harrow Weald - airport operating hours only X26 - Heathrow to Croydon - airport operating hours only My only query, at this stage. Are you planning that the 801 and 802 be operated by just the one company in each case and.if so, how do you start/finish buses from each end of the route at roughly the same time? I guess in the case of the 802 it could be a joint Arriva North/South operation. I hadn’t got as far as specifying an operator. I don’t see why it couldn’t be run by more than one operator depending on where the drivers would come from (availability) and proximity of the garage to the route.
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Post by busman on Nov 27, 2018 17:33:01 GMT
Well this is fun. Given that this is fantasy I’m surprised by all the normal suggestions. I would trial a handful of super services to check demand ahead of introducing more Christmas services in future. They would serve areas that are quite busy during Christmas day as well as catering for journeys to and from Heathrow. Flat rate fare of £2.50, no hopper fare or Oyster capping applies.
801 - Plumstead Garage to Hayes By Pass via route 53 to Whitehall; then to Piccadilly; then route 94 to Shepherds Bush Green; then route 207 to Hayes By Pass
802 - North Finchley to South Croydon via route 13 to Victoria; then route 2 to West Norwood; then 468 to South Croydon
803 - Romford to Oxford Circus via route 86 to Stratford; then route 25 to Holborn Circus; then via the old 25 routing to Oxford Circus
800 series routes run 8am to 6pm, every 30-60 minutes
105 - Heathrow to Greenford Station - airport operating hours only
140 - Heathrow to Harrow Weald - airport operating hours only
X26 - Heathrow to Croydon - airport operating hours only
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Post by busman on Nov 25, 2018 7:02:21 GMT
I’m on the nightmare that is Oxford Street, thankfully above the madness at ground level on a V(ery) H(ideous) 94 that is quite busy, even with another 94 (fully loaded) right before my eyes. A bus very well used by tourists. I’ve seen 390s coming the other way with passengers loaded to the door. The bus stop tiles for the 10 and 23 have not yet been removed from bus stops in Oxford Street Shambles. If TfL was run by an army of volunteers one could forgive the discrepancies. But this is a public body who customers rely on for accurate information. Incidents like this will certainly put people off using public transport.
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Post by busman on Nov 23, 2018 22:00:35 GMT
Well I decided to do 10N separately to my last daytime journeys. The Wed/Thur night. WHAT. a. contrast!! It took 34mins Hammersmith - King's Cross and few minutes more than that in the opposite direction. About 8min stand time. Must be a nice duty for drivers. Speaking of, my driver noticed I was snapping his bus and inquired if this is the last 10, but I said 'Oh no, it's on Friday, a lot of people are coming!'. Oh, and better yet. Both my trips had people get on at the British Museum area. At 3am. What a mess is about to start I am lost for words for.... It's gonna be an absolute disaster and 9 will be very overcrowded tomorrow (whilst "23 Westbourne Park" will get ignored) Yes, the British Museum section is well used considering that the 10 hasn’t been running through it that long. It’s a shame that the area will lose the handy northbound link to Euston and Kings Cross. The bus stops now seem to have a generic yellow poster stating the withdrawal of the 10 and the 23 as a replacement. Hardly consolation for passengers around the British Museum. I think I’ll take a walk around there on Monday to put some passengers out of their misery waiting for a bus that will never come. Hopefully TfL remove the tiles from the unused stops over the weekend.
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Post by busman on Nov 23, 2018 13:28:14 GMT
I think we will agree to disagree here. I think they are far from excessive. The majority of traffic isn’t caused by buses on that road. However they do get stuck in the crazy gridlock caused along various junctions. As a result many passengers (like me) have deserted them as at times it’s quicker to walk from Tottenham Court Road to Piccadilly. Now people look at these deserted buses and say “oh they are empty, they’re causing unnecessary traffic” without realising they are observing an effect, not the cause. Like I say, bus travel has become 2nd class travel under this mayor make no mistake about it. Slower journeys, less frequent services. I feel for passengers who are stuck with no alternative to buses. And for the drivers of the 14, 19 and 38 who are stuck on that road every day. If I had to do that, it would drive me insane. I went for a farewell ride on the 10 this morning between King's Cross and TCR.
Forgetting the atrociousness of the Euston Rd, the congestion between British Museum and TCR was beyond a joke, hampered further by non-bus traffic trying to turn right off New Oxford Street onto Shaftesbury Avenue.
Coming back, the phasing of the traffic lights on the eastern side of Russell Square with Woburn Place was only letting a handful of vehicles through on each phase, so we sat in traffic for nearly 10 minutes round the square, no other buses involved. There was a very decent load on board up until this point. They got off and walked. I persevered as I wanted my last ride. Queuing up past Tavistock Sq all the way up through Upper Woburn Place to Euston, endless taxis, delivery lorries and cyclists on death wishes. By the time we crawled to the Euston Road even I had to admit defeat, with a place to get to eventually.
Both directions I would have been quicker walking, and there in lies the problem. This is made worse still by the TfL announcement that they will make all TfL Roads 20mph by 2020. Actually, if we got anywhere near 20mph this morning then that would have been great!
Ah yes, welcome to my world. It’s beyond a joke isn’t it? To say buses are the source of the problem and remove them is only treating a symptom of the problem. Also because we are building ever more offices in central London that in turn attracts more cabs and service vehicles into the area.
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Post by busman on Nov 22, 2018 15:24:32 GMT
Someone may have said this already, but of course removing buses off Oxford Street will reduce congestion on Oxford Street when only taxis and buses can use it in the first place during the busiest times of the week 🙄 I invite you to take a walk down Shaftesbury Avenue or the Strand during the weekday. It is packed end to end with various vehicles. Mostly not buses. There are a lot of trade vehicles, taxis and cabs. I work in the area so see it almost every day. I’m not sure how many vehicles don’t need to be there, but one of the problems I see is that we have a set of traffic lights every few metres which causes considerable congestion. Also our streets are so narrow they cannot accomodate separate bus and cycle lanes alongside regular traffic lanes. We are building huge skyscrapers in London designed to hold masses of people but without the road infrastructure or pavement space to support these developments. If it was up to me I would rip parts of central London up and start again, but understandably most people in the UK would disagree as we like to preserve old things and hold old buildings with a certain reverence. I have no such sentiment. The Strand and Shaftesbury Avenue are the same with excessive buses just adding to the congestion, I'm not surprised that the 19 is being removed from Shaftesbury Avenue and I expect the 14 will go as well leaving it solely to the 38. I think we will agree to disagree here. I think they are far from excessive. The majority of traffic isn’t caused by buses on that road. However they do get stuck in the crazy gridlock caused along various junctions. As a result many passengers (like me) have deserted them as at times it’s quicker to walk from Tottenham Court Road to Piccadilly. Now people look at these deserted buses and say “oh they are empty, they’re causing unnecessary traffic” without realising they are observing an effect, not the cause. Like I say, bus travel has become 2nd class travel under this mayor make no mistake about it. Slower journeys, less frequent services. I feel for passengers who are stuck with no alternative to buses. And for the drivers of the 14, 19 and 38 who are stuck on that road every day. If I had to do that, it would drive me insane.
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Post by busman on Nov 21, 2018 20:18:19 GMT
Exactly. That gap will be filled by Uber. Apps such as CityMapper will always point out the fastest method of travel and allow users to compare price. Bus is becoming 2nd class travel again under this mayor. It won't and it hasn't been, the congestion in Oxford Street has improved considerably since bus numbers were reduced. Someone may have said this already, but of course removing buses off Oxford Street will reduce congestion on Oxford Street when only taxis and buses can use it in the first place during the busiest times of the week 🙄 I invite you to take a walk down Shaftesbury Avenue or the Strand during the weekday. It is packed end to end with various vehicles. Mostly not buses. There are a lot of trade vehicles, taxis and cabs. I work in the area so see it almost every day. I’m not sure how many vehicles don’t need to be there, but one of the problems I see is that we have a set of traffic lights every few metres which causes considerable congestion. Also our streets are so narrow they cannot accomodate separate bus and cycle lanes alongside regular traffic lanes. We are building huge skyscrapers in London designed to hold masses of people but without the road infrastructure or pavement space to support these developments. If it was up to me I would rip parts of central London up and start again, but understandably most people in the UK would disagree as we like to preserve old things and hold old buildings with a certain reverence. I have no such sentiment.
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Post by busman on Nov 21, 2018 13:02:30 GMT
Reducing buses is seen as the way of dealing with the traffic and it's difficult to argue with when there are invariably near empty buses sat in the queue to the lights at Oxford Circus. that doesn't reduce traffic but instead leaves a vacuum for others to simply fill. Buses aren't the cause of congestion period. Exactly. That gap will be filled by Uber. Apps such as CityMapper will always point out the fastest method of travel and allow users to compare price. Bus is becoming 2nd class travel again under this mayor.
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Post by busman on Nov 20, 2018 12:57:18 GMT
Despite the official advice, there are no direct buses from Holborn station to Oxford Circus, not without a walk. 98/N98 runs from Holborn to Oxford Circus. The 25 will be curtailed at Holborn Circus. The 98 terminates at Holborn Red Lion Square, so nowhere near. **edit...just realised you were responding to another poster and not at all suggesting that the 98 plugs the whole withdrawn section of the 25** The worst bit about this change is that they are advising passengers to travel on an already overcrowded Central Line. I’m not surprised though, this is how TfL roll these days. Are the decision makers for surface transport quite young or inexperienced? Their implementation of changes seems much shoddier than it did in the past. I’m just so sorry I voted for this mayor. Rest assured I won’t be making the same mistake twice.
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Post by busman on Nov 19, 2018 21:03:42 GMT
The same way they check drivers of cars and motorbikes? They have number plates and even that is far from foolproof. There is reckoned to be about one million uninsured drivers on the UK's roads. Just because not everyone will comply with a new regulation, that is a weak argument against its implementation. I would perhaps stop short of number plates for cyclists as someone has to pay for that. I don’t want to see cyclists pay road tax nor should the additional burden fall on existing road tax payers. I do however think cycling proficiency should be compulsory for all cyclists. Especially those who don’t know how to drive as they have little to no knowledge of where blindspots are nor how to anticipate pedestrian and driver behaviour. I think training in hazard perception, defensive riding and understanding the road regulations should be mandatory at a national level. It would have to be heavily subsidised to ensure that uptake is as high as possible and not a deterrent for new cyclists getting on the road. Now that would potentially make the scheme too expensive to roll out. I’m surprised that more focus hasn’t been put on upskilling cyclists as part of TfL’s Vision Zero policy. This isn’t just about stopping cyclists from hitting pedestrians, more importantly it should be about keeping cyclists safe. My borough, Greenwich, has free cycling road safety courses. I would love to see this expanded out and training to be made mandatory.
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Post by busman on Nov 17, 2018 11:13:35 GMT
According to LOTS 304 is also on hold. Londonbusroutes.net is reporting the 300 change is going ahead on the 8th but that could be a error.
Its hard to believe Crossrail was due to open in 3 weeks. I had a mega day planned riding all the east London changes and travelling on the new line into central London.
I had already checked the times of the N1 night bus and night Overground to see if I could get to Abbey Wood for "stupid o'clock" for the first Crossrail train. Ah well - I don't have to get frozen and wet and can stay warm in bed instead. I was also planning the same thing with a friend of mine who’s into engineering. I reckon that first train from Abbey Wood will be packed when it finally comes. I live within walking distance of Abbey Wood station so its relatively simple for me. For those trekking across London I would recommend the night tube to North Greenwich and then take a 472, assuming it has been extended to Abbey Wood by then. You can check off the new 472 routing and ride Crossrail in one hit.
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Post by busman on Nov 17, 2018 8:24:07 GMT
Come on!!!!! Get with the modern world and be (h)appy and use an App!!! No smartphone, don't want one - tough luck, just keep changing buses until you get where you want. So long as you complete your journey in a hour, you can keep changing buses without financial penalty.......hop hop hopper fare!!!!
This brings us to another problem. TfL seem to want everyone to move with the times and go Digital, but there's not even an app from TfL which easily provides bus maps. You've just got the website which is cumbersome to say the least to use on a smartphone. You do have Citymapper which does the job quite well but it's silly that TfL don't have a first party app for this. Citymapper tells me to take the train and walk for pretty much every trip I use it for. It’s great because I can minimise the time I spend sitting on a bus at 20mph and being regulated to infinity.
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