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Post by LondonNorthern on May 28, 2020 20:13:28 GMT
Route E5 cannot be decked due to Toplocks Estate and there being a low bridge due to housing above
This is the same with the W4 in Broadwater Farm
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Post by COBO on May 28, 2020 20:13:38 GMT
No i simply mean both come down Kentish Town Road, then the 46 would continue to Camden Tn Stn the down Crowndale Road to Kings Cross then the normal route to Barts Hospital. That way the 46 could go DD if need be. The 214 would then peel off just before Camden Town Stn and under the low bridge to Kings Cross then current route to Liverpool Street. I guess that can happen.
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Post by COBO on May 28, 2020 20:14:29 GMT
Route E5 cannot be decked due to Toplocks Estate and there being a low bridge due to housing above This is the same with the W4 in Broadwater Farm Where’s the low bridge on the E5?
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Post by LondonNorthern on May 28, 2020 20:19:18 GMT
Route E5 cannot be decked due to Toplocks Estate and there being a low bridge due to housing above This is the same with the W4 in Broadwater Farm Where’s the low bridge on the E5? McNair Road looks quite low
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Post by COBO on May 28, 2020 20:31:13 GMT
No i simply mean both come down Kentish Town Road, then the 46 would continue to Camden Tn Stn the down Crowndale Road to Kings Cross then the normal route to Barts Hospital. That way the 46 could go DD if need be. The 214 would then peel off just before Camden Town Stn and under the low bridge to Kings Cross then current route to Liverpool Street. But the 46 still be going via the low bridge on Prince of Wales Road and the 214 needs it’s own double deckers.
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Post by COBO on May 28, 2020 20:34:32 GMT
Where’s the low bridge on the E5? McNair Road looks quite low You mean this bridge? According to Google street view the bridge limit is 15-6 so double deckers could go under that.
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Post by LondonNorthern on May 28, 2020 20:51:59 GMT
McNair Road looks quite low You mean this bridge? According to Google street view the bridge limit is 15-6 so double deckers could go under that. Suppose so but DDs couldn't navigate their routing well enough around the E5 to have such small buses.
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Post by redexpress on May 28, 2020 20:52:20 GMT
No i simply mean both come down Kentish Town Road, then the 46 would continue to Camden Tn Stn the down Crowndale Road to Kings Cross then the normal route to Barts Hospital. That way the 46 could go DD if need be. The 214 would then peel off just before Camden Town Stn and under the low bridge to Kings Cross then current route to Liverpool Street. This doesn't make sense. The "low" bridge on the 46 is on Prince of Wales Road. Swapping the routes as you suggest would not avoid this bridge. You seem to be thinking of the bridges in the Camden Road area, but none of these are too low for DDs.
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Post by redexpress on May 28, 2020 21:00:15 GMT
I think the bridge on Prince of Wales Road can only take DDs if going under the centre of it in the middle of the road. One solution I thought was to Swap the 46 and 214 routings between Camden Town to allow the 46 to go DD as the 214 can't take them anyways due to Highgate Village. It's an arched bridge, with insufficient clearance at the sides. As mentioned d/d can get under if they stay in the centre of the road (the 46 was d/d until November 1991), but after a diverted 24 hit the bridge a few years back it was decided that the risk of a bridge strike was now too great. I seem to remember there were two bridge strikes within a year. Metroline TE715 hit the bridge while on its dead run to HT. That was a few weeks before Metroline lost the route to London General, who promptly hit the bridge with one of their Es. I can't remember whether the LG one was in service (and hence on diversion), or on a dead run. The Metroline one certainly wasn't in service.
In practice Prince of Wales Road continued to be used by dead-running buses for many years after these incidents, although I'm not sure whether it was still officially allowed. In-service buses have also passed under the bridge while on diversion, but usually the risky part of the road close to the bridge wall is coned off to avoid bridge strikes. Obviously this reduces the available road space so is only done when needed.
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Post by COBO on May 28, 2020 21:15:18 GMT
You mean this bridge? According to Google street view the bridge limit is 15-6 so double deckers could go under that. Suppose so but DDs couldn't navigate their routing well enough around the E5 to have such small buses. I guess not.
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Post by southlondonbus on May 28, 2020 21:57:01 GMT
No i simply mean both come down Kentish Town Road, then the 46 would continue to Camden Tn Stn the down Crowndale Road to Kings Cross then the normal route to Barts Hospital. That way the 46 could go DD if need be. The 214 would then peel off just before Camden Town Stn and under the low bridge to Kings Cross then current route to Liverpool Street. This doesn't make sense. The "low" bridge on the 46 is on Prince of Wales Road. Swapping the routes as you suggest would not avoid this bridge. You seem to be thinking of the bridges in the Camden Road area, but none of these are too low for DDs. Sorry I was the Camden Road area ones I thought had an issue. In that case then no the swap wouldn't help. I did wonder if when the 46 was removed from the tender program for a year to be reviewed if it would be split and some of it become DD. As it turned out the only proposed change was the withdrawal between Paddington and Lancaster Gate.
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Post by vjaska on May 28, 2020 22:00:16 GMT
It's an arched bridge, with insufficient clearance at the sides. As mentioned d/d can get under if they stay in the centre of the road (the 46 was d/d until November 1991), but after a diverted 24 hit the bridge a few years back it was decided that the risk of a bridge strike was now too great. I seem to remember there were two bridge strikes within a year. Metroline TE715 hit the bridge while on its dead run to HT. That was a few weeks before Metroline lost the route to London General, who promptly hit the bridge with one of their Es. I can't remember whether the LG one was in service (and hence on diversion), or on a dead run. The Metroline one certainly wasn't in service. In practice Prince of Wales Road continued to be used by dead-running buses for many years after these incidents, although I'm not sure whether it was still officially allowed. In-service buses have also passed under the bridge while on diversion, but usually the risky part of the road close to the bridge wall is coned off to avoid bridge strikes. Obviously this reduces the available road space so is only done when needed.
E2 was the offending London General one and was on the 24 on diversion when the incident occurred.
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Post by northlondonbuses on May 29, 2020 12:20:42 GMT
C11 due to gospel oak bridge
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Post by vjaska on May 29, 2020 13:34:35 GMT
You mean this bridge? According to Google street view the bridge limit is 15-6 so double deckers could go under that. Suppose so but DDs couldn't navigate their routing well enough around the E5 to have such small buses. The narrow roads would likely be the main issue - there is no height restriction as modern full height double deckers are generally 14'5" to 14'6" so would have no issue under these bridges.
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Post by greg on May 29, 2020 18:58:05 GMT
I just saw discussion about the 46, and yes it can take deckers. Not entirely sure between Paddington and Lancaster Gate, but the low bridge which is at Kentish Town West Station can be used by deckers in the middle of the bridge. It is used as a diversion route for routes 24, 27, 31 and 168 when Chalk Farm Road is shut, being very often.
The 46 has been banned of double deckers, probably a while ago but most definitely after the 24 crash that happened a few years ago with Go Ahead. The 46 does not need double deckers anyway, a frequency increase during peak should do the job.
The C11 can definitely not take deckers because of the very tight roads at England’s Lane, the 31 is diverted all the way to Swiss Cottage when Eton Road is shut because of the narrow roads and parked cars, and also because of the low bridge at Gospel Oak Station.
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