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Post by sid on Feb 11, 2018 11:15:37 GMT
Beware the error of comparing origin and destination and not considering intermediate points served. Brixton and Streatham have extremely high levels of bus usage so it is no surprise there are multiple routes and overlaps. Croydon is also a major transport hub and an employment centre. Again no surprise that it is served by several routes across multiple corridors. London's suburbs aren't the equivalent of some provincial little town where one or two core routes with no service down side roads or into different areas will suffice. Absolutely agree, while also pointing out that even the most dedicated rail fanatic couldn't suggest that travelling to Brixton by that mode from Croydon, Norbury, Streatham etc would be possible by anyone not with (a) far too much time on their hands or (b) serious masochistic tendencies. The 109 used to provide a 2 minute peak hour headway from South Croydon to Kennington (and not so much less frequent at other times on weekdays) for a very good reason! Wasn't the x2 minutes headway north of TH, there were peak hour shorts from there via Westminster of Blackfriars back in RT/RM days. Not much need for a 2 minute headway nowadays. |
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Post by M1104 on Feb 11, 2018 11:58:35 GMT
On the N3 I would suggest withdrawing it north of Brixton on Friday and Saturday nights when the night tube is running with an increased service between Brixton and Bromley. I would have thought more people may require it on Fridays and Saturdays, especially with the plan of extending it past Leicester Square. Even in its present form punters along places like Lambeth Road and Palace gate will miss out on a direct service from there in towards the West end, Brixton, etc. |
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Post by sid on Feb 11, 2018 12:07:46 GMT
On the N3 I would suggest withdrawing it north of Brixton on Friday and Saturday nights when the night tube is running with an increased service between Brixton and Bromley. I would have thought more people may require it on Fridays and Saturdays, especially with the plan of extending it past Leicester Square. Even in its present form punters along places like Lambeth Road and Palace gate will miss out on a direct service from there in towards the West end, Brixton, etc. Well there is still the 159 doing much the same route as well as the Victoria Line. I would think a tube connection at Brixton should be the top priority? |
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Post by vjaska on Feb 11, 2018 12:18:19 GMT
I would have thought more people may require it on Fridays and Saturdays, especially with the plan of extending it past Leicester Square. Even in its present form punters along places like Lambeth Road and Palace gate will miss out on a direct service from there in towards the West end, Brixton, etc. Well there is still the 159 doing much the same route as well as the Victoria Line. I would think a tube connection at Brixton should be the top priority? The Victoria Line runs alongside the 2 not the 3 so for those wanting certain parts of the west end such as Leicester Square & Covent Garden, they end up with no bus service. I see no merits in curtailing the N3 to Brixton at all. |
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Post by vjaska on Feb 11, 2018 12:26:27 GMT
I agree with 415 merging into 432 as your reducing cuts and no routes are lost and still provide links That was the main criticism of the 415's introduction, an extension of the 432 could have achieved the same thing without the unnecessary overlap on the Tulse Hill section. Peak hour short workings between Brixton and Norwood Garage would suffice rather than another all day route. I seem to recall that as part of the same package the 333 was rerouted via Stockwell which caused needles confusion, why couldn't the 333 have been left as it was and the 432 extended to E&C via Stockwell? On the N3 I would suggest withdrawing it north of Brixton on Friday and Saturday nights when the night tube is running with an increased service between Brixton and Bromley. The 415 in the beginning was running quite light but remarkably, since the extension to Old Kent Road, the route has become far busier and certainly deserves its place alongside that new link - it does an excellent job also of giving assistance to the 2 & 432 which are rammed during the peaks. Peak hour workings couldn’t terminate at Norwood Garage unless Arriva run it as there no room for another route to stand. The changes were in 2008 to create a link between Tulse Hill & Brixton Road beyond Brixton itself and to finally introduce a link from Brixton Hill to Stockwell & Clapham Road which is why the 333 & not the 432 was chosen. I got the leaflet through my door a couple of weeks before the changes occurred. |
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Post by M1104 on Feb 11, 2018 13:23:19 GMT
I would have thought more people may require it on Fridays and Saturdays, especially with the plan of extending it past Leicester Square. Even in its present form punters along places like Lambeth Road and Palace gate will miss out on a direct service from there in towards the West end, Brixton, etc. Well there is still the 159 doing much the same route as well as the Victoria Line. I would think a tube connection at Brixton should be the top priority? I think that tube connection should remain as an option[1] to prevent unnecessary multiple interchanges. There's also the fact that you would have to use two tube lines (Victoria and Northern) to get from Brixton to another point north of where the N3 runs, not to mention having to pay more money for the journey if one doesn't have a travel card or equivalent. Even changing at Brixton for another bus service would have inconvenience says if punters want to go to places where only the N3 goes to from Brixton. [1] - as opposed to a bus service replacement |
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Post by sid on Feb 11, 2018 13:57:13 GMT
Well there is still the 159 doing much the same route as well as the Victoria Line. I would think a tube connection at Brixton should be the top priority? The Victoria Line runs alongside the 2 not the 3 so for those wanting certain parts of the west end such as Leicester Square & Covent Garden, they end up with no bus service. I see no merits in curtailing the N3 to Brixton at all. The 159 stops close to Leicester Square and Covent Garden. |
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Post by sid on Feb 11, 2018 14:01:01 GMT
That was the main criticism of the 415's introduction, an extension of the 432 could have achieved the same thing without the unnecessary overlap on the Tulse Hill section. Peak hour short workings between Brixton and Norwood Garage would suffice rather than another all day route. I seem to recall that as part of the same package the 333 was rerouted via Stockwell which caused needles confusion, why couldn't the 333 have been left as it was and the 432 extended to E&C via Stockwell? On the N3 I would suggest withdrawing it north of Brixton on Friday and Saturday nights when the night tube is running with an increased service between Brixton and Bromley. The 415 in the beginning was running quite light but remarkably, since the extension to Old Kent Road, the route has become far busier and certainly deserves its place alongside that new link - it does an excellent job also of giving assistance to the 2 & 432 which are rammed during the peaks. Peak hour workings couldn’t terminate at Norwood Garage unless Arriva run it as there no room for another route to stand. The changes were in 2008 to create a link between Tulse Hill & Brixton Road beyond Brixton itself and to finally introduce a link from Brixton Hill to Stockwell & Clapham Road which is why the 333 & not the 432 was chosen. I got the leaflet through my door a couple of weeks before the changes occurred. I was thinking of peak hour with the flow short workings on the 2 between Norwood Garage and Brixton. In fairness I can understand the link from Streatham Hill to Stockwell but the 333 did obviously cause some confusion. |
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Post by sid on Feb 11, 2018 14:09:29 GMT
Well there is still the 159 doing much the same route as well as the Victoria Line. I would think a tube connection at Brixton should be the top priority? I think that tube connection should remain as an option[1] to prevent unnecessary multiple interchanges. There's also the fact that you would have to use two tube lines (Victoria and Northern) to get from Brixton to another point north of where the N3 runs, not to mention having to pay more money for the journey if one doesn't have a travel card or equivalent. Even changing at Brixton for another bus service would have inconvenience says if punters want to go to places where only the N3 goes to from Brixton. [1] - as opposed to a bus service replacement I think those who can afford a night out in the West End aren't likely to baulk at paying a bit more for the tube home. What I had in mind is the 3 running every 10 minutes Brixton to Bromley with alternative buses running light in the opposite direction and merging the N109/159 into one route running every 10 minutes Oxford Circus to Croydon on Fri/Sat nights. |
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Post by vjaska on Feb 11, 2018 14:19:02 GMT
The 415 in the beginning was running quite light but remarkably, since the extension to Old Kent Road, the route has become far busier and certainly deserves its place alongside that new link - it does an excellent job also of giving assistance to the 2 & 432 which are rammed during the peaks. Peak hour workings couldn’t terminate at Norwood Garage unless Arriva run it as there no room for another route to stand. The changes were in 2008 to create a link between Tulse Hill & Brixton Road beyond Brixton itself and to finally introduce a link from Brixton Hill to Stockwell & Clapham Road which is why the 333 & not the 432 was chosen. I got the leaflet through my door a couple of weeks before the changes occurred. I was thinking of peak hour with the flow short workings on the 2 between Norwood Garage and Brixton. In fairness I can understand the link from Streatham Hill to Stockwell but the 333 did obviously cause some confusion. Any change can potentially cause confusion but I certainly don’t remember the 333 being a special case or anything. |
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Post by sid on Feb 11, 2018 14:48:05 GMT
I was thinking of peak hour with the flow short workings on the 2 between Norwood Garage and Brixton. In fairness I can understand the link from Streatham Hill to Stockwell but the 333 did obviously cause some confusion. Any change can potentially cause confusion but I certainly don’t remember the 333 being a special case or anything. The thing with the 333 was it still had the same destination in both directions and nothing to indicate a change of route. |
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Post by vjaska on Feb 11, 2018 14:52:10 GMT
Any change can potentially cause confusion but I certainly don’t remember the 333 being a special case or anything. The thing with the 333 was it still had the same destination in both directions and nothing to indicate a change of route. The publicity was far greater than it is nowadays - timetables & maps were updated during the week prior to the changes & leaflets were posted through doors as I got one through mine. |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 11, 2018 14:56:31 GMT
I think that tube connection should remain as an option[1] to prevent unnecessary multiple interchanges. There's also the fact that you would have to use two tube lines (Victoria and Northern) to get from Brixton to another point north of where the N3 runs, not to mention having to pay more money for the journey if one doesn't have a travel card or equivalent. Even changing at Brixton for another bus service would have inconvenience says if punters want to go to places where only the N3 goes to from Brixton. [1] - as opposed to a bus service replacement I think those who can afford a night out in the West End aren't likely to baulk at paying a bit more for the tube home. What I had in mind is the 3 running every 10 minutes Brixton to Bromley with alternative buses running light in the opposite direction and merging the N109/159 into one route running every 10 minutes Oxford Circus to Croydon on Fri/Sat nights. It's not just people fancying a night out in the west end. Night buses are heavily used by workers. Their wages are low enough and paying the extra for the Tube is not an option. |
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Post by sid on Feb 11, 2018 17:09:53 GMT
I think those who can afford a night out in the West End aren't likely to baulk at paying a bit more for the tube home. What I had in mind is the 3 running every 10 minutes Brixton to Bromley with alternative buses running light in the opposite direction and merging the N109/159 into one route running every 10 minutes Oxford Circus to Croydon on Fri/Sat nights. It's not just people fancying a night out in the west end. Night buses are heavily used by workers. Their wages are low enough and paying the extra for the Tube is not an option. Indeed and I'm not suggesting removing any sections of night routes just making reductions in Central London and improving onward connections at outer stations. |
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Post by sid on Feb 12, 2018 16:24:20 GMT
There is an awful lot of spare capacity on routes over Waterloo Bridge off peak, would many people miss the 171 if it were curtailed at Camberwell Green and just extended to Holborn Mon-Fri peak hours? The 12 and 68 cover it.
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