|
|
Post by law123 on Mar 6, 2018 22:31:44 GMT
North Greenwich to Woolwich: 161,422,472
North Greenwich to Bexleyheath: 132,422,486
|
|
|
|
Post by COBO on Mar 6, 2018 22:55:32 GMT
Wembley Park and Alperton: 83, 245, 297 and N83.
Wembley Central and Alperton: 79, 83, 224, 297, 483 and N83.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 7, 2018 15:39:10 GMT
Sidcup and Orpington - 51, B14 & R11
Bromley and Catford - 208, 320, 336 & N199
Bromley and Hayes - 119, 138, 146, 246 & 314
Bromley and Locksbottom - 61, 261 & 336 & 358
Bromley and Beckenham - 162, 227, 352, 354, 358, 367 & N3
Bromley and Penge - 227, 352 & 358
Orpington and Locksbottom - 61, 353, 358, R2, R3 & R4
Orpington and Green Street Green - 358, 431, R1, R5, R8, R10 & R11
Orpington and St Mary Cray - 51, 477, B14, N199, R1, R3, R4, R6 & R11
Orpington and St Paul's Cray - 51, B14, R1 & R11
Sidcup and Foots Cray - 51, 233, 321, 492 & R11
Sidcup and Albany Park - 229, 269 & B14
Sidcup and Bexley - 229, 269 & 492
Sidcup and New Eltham - 160, 233 & 321
Crayford and Dartford - 96, 428 & 492
Bexleyheath and Welling - 89, 96, 486, B15, B16 & N89
Bexleyheath and Erith - 99, 229, B12 & N89
Eltham and Avery Hill - 132, 162, 286, B15 & N21
Eltham and Kidbrooke - 132, 286 & B16
Eltham and Mottingham - 124, 126 & 161
Eltham and New Eltham - 160, 162, 233, 314 & 321
Off the top of my head.
|
|
|
|
Post by busaholic on Mar 8, 2018 21:10:14 GMT
Just so you can compare and contrast:-
If you want to travel by bus between Camden Town and Westminster (Parliament Square) you have two options, the 24 or the 88. For a time, there was only the 24.
In 1961 there were no fewer than SEVEN options for this journey, namely
24,29,134/a,127 via Tottenham Court Road
3,53,276 via Great Portland Street (the 276 Mon-Fri daytime only)
It can't really be said that any tube or other railway developments since then have taken any of that particular traffic away, either. However, the time that scheduled bus services take has increased greatly, so if you factor in changes of bus too (from, say, a 134 at Tottenham Court Road)then you can understand how patronage falls away.
|
|
|
|
Post by snoggle on Mar 8, 2018 23:07:17 GMT
Just so you can compare and contrast:- If you want to travel by bus between Camden Town and Westminster (Parliament Square) you have two options, the 24 or the 88. For a time, there was only the 24. In 1961 there were no fewer than SEVEN options for this journey, namely 24,29,134/a,127 via Tottenham Court Road 3,53,276 via Great Portland Street (the 276 Mon-Fri daytime only) It can't really be said that any tube or other railway developments since then have taken any of that particular traffic away, either. However, the time that scheduled bus services take has increased greatly, so if you factor in changes of bus too (from, say, a 134 at Tottenham Court Road)then you can understand how patronage falls away. I'll have to disagree with about the tube changes. We now have vastly more frequent and reliable tube services than in the 60s. The Victoria Line didn't exist in 1961 and is now extremely frequent. Westminster now has the Jubilee Line and the Northern Line is a different railway from how it was in the 60s / 70s / 80s. Whether we like it or not people have voted with their feet and the Underground is just vastly different and much busier from a few decades ago. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 11, 2018 2:03:08 GMT
North Greenwich to Woolwich: 161,422,472 North Greenwich to Bexleyheath: 132,422,486 In both cases the routes serve different roads between the points you have selected. |
|
|
|
Post by DT 11 on Mar 11, 2018 7:36:21 GMT
North Greenwich to Woolwich: 161,422,472 North Greenwich to Bexleyheath: 132,422,486 In both cases the routes serve different roads between the points you have selected. I think that is the whole point of this thread. |
|
|
|
Post by ak121 on Mar 11, 2018 20:27:50 GMT
Edmonton to Enfield Town Centres: Routes 191, 192, W8 (3 routes)
Enfield Town Centre to Turnpike Lane Station: Routes 121, 231, 329 (N29) 3 routes
Chase Farm Hospital to Enfield Town Centre: Routes 313, W8, W9 (3 routes)
Chingford Station to Crooked Billet: Routes 97, 385, 397 (N26) 3 routes
Walthamstow Central to Crooked Billet: 34, 97, 158, 215, 357, W11 (N26) 6 routes
|
|
|
|
Post by busaholic on Mar 11, 2018 21:44:32 GMT
Just so you can compare and contrast:- If you want to travel by bus between Camden Town and Westminster (Parliament Square) you have two options, the 24 or the 88. For a time, there was only the 24. In 1961 there were no fewer than SEVEN options for this journey, namely 24,29,134/a,127 via Tottenham Court Road 3,53,276 via Great Portland Street (the 276 Mon-Fri daytime only) It can't really be said that any tube or other railway developments since then have taken any of that particular traffic away, either. However, the time that scheduled bus services take has increased greatly, so if you factor in changes of bus too (from, say, a 134 at Tottenham Court Road)then you can understand how patronage falls away. I'll have to disagree with about the tube changes. We now have vastly more frequent and reliable tube services than in the 60s. The Victoria Line didn't exist in 1961 and is now extremely frequent. Westminster now has the Jubilee Line and the Northern Line is a different railway from how it was in the 60s / 70s / 80s. Whether we like it or not people have voted with their feet and the Underground is just vastly different and much busier from a few decades ago. I don't see how the Victoria or Jubilee Lines impact on a journey from Westminster to Camden Town, although possibly a change from Jubilee to Northern at Waterloo might be on the cards. Victoria Street, which four of the services I quoted served, is not cheek by jowl with Westminster station, for instance, so if so many are now making the journey by tube it may be because they are being forced to, by route and frequency cuts coupled with the congestion that TfL, far from solving, is adding to with its policies. The Northern Line, in the period you quoted, was by no means as bad as was promulgated by the Evening Standard (I worked at NL HQ for a few months then, when it was dubbed the Misery Line). Stations like Oxford Circus and Victoria were never routinely closed every weekday at rush hours: the press would have had an absolute field day if they had been, and tube fares were a fraction of what they are now in real terms in the central area. |
|
|
|
Post by COBO on Mar 11, 2018 21:55:38 GMT
Wembley and Sudbury Hill: 92 and H17.
Greenford Station and Greenford Broadway; 92, 95 and 105.
Northolt and South Harrow: 140 and 395.
Northolt and Yeading: 90, 120, 140, 282 and N7.
Yeading and Greenford: 282, E7, E9 and N7.
|
|
|
|
Post by snoggle on Mar 11, 2018 22:44:29 GMT
The Northern Line, in the period you quoted, was by no means as bad as was promulgated by the Evening Standard (I worked at NL HQ for a few months then, when it was dubbed the Misery Line). Stations like Oxford Circus and Victoria were never routinely closed every weekday at rush hours: the press would have had an absolute field day if they had been, and tube fares were a fraction of what they are now in real terms in the central area. The point is that the Tube is now perceived as being vastly more reliable, faster and frequent than much of the bus network. People have voted with their feet. No one is going to sit on a bus that may take an hour to go from Westminster to Camden due to traffic jams, b*lls achingly slow schedules and pauses for whatever reason. People will make the effort to change lines on the tube if that means a fast journey time. You cited the previous existence of 7 services and tried to exclude the tube. I am merely disagreeing with you and saying that people are far more willing to use the tube to reach places like Camden from Westminster regardless of whether they have to change. Adding a new line at Westminster increases people's options regardless of whether it directly parallels a bus corridor. After all there are three, possibly 4, moderately logical bus route corridors between Camden and Westminster with varying journey times and intermediate roads served. I worked for LU for more than a quarter of a century all the way to the 1980s so I'm well aware what tube service performance was like. I know what travails the Northern Line went through as fleet replacement took place, as the resignalling was postponed for over 20 years and the parlous state that stations fell into until LU was basically embarrassed into doing something about the south end of the line in particular. I was responsible for getting most of that bit of the line equipped with ticket gates so I know what state it was in. Let's have a look at Westminster to Camden bus routes - 24 and 88. The 24 has lost 2.695m pass jnys since 2010/11. The 88 has lost 821k pass jnys since 2010/11. Just for good measure let's also look at the C2 - it's lost 492k pass jnys since 2010/11. I assume the core section north of Oxford Circus has remained reasonably well used. I doubt the tube has lost any patronage in that time within Zone 1. |
|
|
|
Post by wirewiper on Mar 12, 2018 10:19:57 GMT
Stratford Broadway to Canning Town, Barking Road:
69 via Plaistow & Hermit Road
241 via Plaistow and Custom House
276 via West Ham Station and Star Lane
Leyton Town Hall to Walthamstow Central:
69 & 97 via Bakers Arms
158 via Markhouse Road
W15 via Leytonstone Station and Whipps Cross
Wanstead to South Woodford:
W12 via Elmcroft Avenue (hail-and-ride section)
W13 & N55 via Hermon Hill
W14 via Woodford Road
Wanstead Station to Leytonstone Station:
66 via New Wanstead
145 & N8 via Blake Hall Road and Bush Road
W13 & W14 via Cambridge Park
|
|
|
|
Post by RandomBusesGirl on Mar 13, 2018 11:34:14 GMT
Crystal Palace and Croydon
Either take 157, 450 or 410, all go via a different way. I think 157 ought to be the quickest
Leyton and Stratford
You got 69, 158 or 97 - though for the latter you also need to scale a bridge if you want to be on the "classic" side
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 13, 2018 12:47:05 GMT
Crystal Palace and Croydon Either take 157, 450 or 410, all go via a different way. I think 157 ought to be the quickest Leyton and Stratford You got 69, 158 or 97 - though for the latter you also need to scale a bridge if you want to be on the "classic" side The last time I did Crystal Palace to Croydon I chose the 410 as it looks the most direct on the spider map. I regretted that choice. |
|
|
|
Post by vjaska on Mar 13, 2018 14:22:25 GMT
Crystal Palace and Croydon Either take 157, 450 or 410, all go via a different way. I think 157 ought to be the quickest Leyton and Stratford You got 69, 158 or 97 - though for the latter you also need to scale a bridge if you want to be on the "classic" side The 157 is indeed the quickest way - then it’s a toss up really between the 410 & 450. |
|
