|
Post by sid on Apr 2, 2019 9:55:22 GMT
It's being cut back to Warren Street anyway. If this silly logic is applied just cause it's being cut there means you can cut it back to Mornington Crescent which might as well be Camden Town, which might as well be Kentish Town, which might as well be Archway, which might as well be Highgate and the whole route might as well go! Is it really worth running it the relatively short distance from Mornington Crescent to Warren Street if it's just going to be stuck in traffic when HS2 work starts? How bad the congestion will actually be obviously remains to be seen.
|
|
|
Post by sid on Apr 2, 2019 9:57:15 GMT
I have suggested previously merging the 1 and 168 into one route, a more efficient use of resources and road space. The problem is these sort of proposals are unworkable when reliability is factored in. Easy to run this sort of route as a running day special but as a regular routing, far more difficult in today’s climate. The days of long routes are long gone. It would be no longer than the 36 or the recently changed 88, I think this is all a bit of a myth quite honestly.
|
|
|
Post by Eastlondoner62 on Apr 2, 2019 10:24:37 GMT
The problem is these sort of proposals are unworkable when reliability is factored in. Easy to run this sort of route as a running day special but as a regular routing, far more difficult in today’s climate. The days of long routes are long gone. It would be no longer than the 36 or the recently changed 88, I think this is all a bit of a myth quite honestly. Not really, the 36 and 88 are 9 miles long as opposed to your proposed 1/168 merger being 13 miles long. Baring in mind that 4 mile difference in some cases is a route in itself such as the EL1 or W7.
|
|
|
Post by sid on Apr 2, 2019 10:35:57 GMT
Not really, the 36 and 88 are 9 miles long as opposed to your proposed 1/168 merger being 13 miles long. Baring in mind that 4 mile difference in some cases is a route in itself such as the EL1 or W7. Off peak running time would be about 80 minutes end to end.
|
|
|
Post by southlondonbus on Apr 2, 2019 12:04:52 GMT
I can't belive Canada Water to Hampstead Heath is 13 miles. Probably only 4-5 miles from either terminal to Aldwych.
|
|
|
Post by danorak on Apr 2, 2019 12:36:10 GMT
My rough and ready measurement has a combined 1/168 at 9 miles.
|
|
|
Post by redexpress on Apr 2, 2019 12:43:20 GMT
If this silly logic is applied just cause it's being cut there means you can cut it back to Mornington Crescent which might as well be Camden Town, which might as well be Kentish Town, which might as well be Archway, which might as well be Highgate and the whole route might as well go! Is it really worth running it the relatively short distance from Mornington Crescent to Warren Street if it's just going to be stuck in traffic when HS2 work starts? How bad the congestion will actually be obviously remains to be seen. The 134 is very well used by people who work in the general Tottenham Court Road / Bloomsbury / Fitzrovia areas. Warren Street is still walkable from much of this area. Mornington Crescent isn't. Cut the route back any further than Warren Street and you will be cutting it back from some of its major traffic objectives (including the hospital). Yes there will be some extra congestion when HS2 work starts but that doesn't justify withdrawing bus services - people still need to get to work.
|
|
|
Post by sid on Apr 2, 2019 12:54:30 GMT
Is it really worth running it the relatively short distance from Mornington Crescent to Warren Street if it's just going to be stuck in traffic when HS2 work starts? How bad the congestion will actually be obviously remains to be seen. The 134 is very well used by people who work in the general Tottenham Court Road / Bloomsbury / Fitzrovia areas. Warren Street is still walkable from much of this area. Mornington Crescent isn't. Cut the route back any further than Warren Street and you will be cutting it back from some of its major traffic objectives (including the hospital). Yes there will be some extra congestion when HS2 work starts but that doesn't justify withdrawing bus services - people still need to get to work. But if congestion is that bad, and I'm not necessarily saying that it will be, the chances are that the majority of passengers will get off and walk or find another route to work and another near empty bus will be adding to the congestion. Another possible option would be rerouting the 134 via Eversholt Street.
|
|
|
Post by Volvo on Apr 2, 2019 13:17:18 GMT
It's being cut back to Warren Street anyway. If this silly logic is applied just cause it's being cut there means you can cut it back to Mornington Crescent which might as well be Camden Town, which might as well be Kentish Town, which might as well be Archway, which might as well be Highgate and the whole route might as well go! Loooooool.
|
|
|
Post by vjaska on Apr 2, 2019 13:20:59 GMT
The problem is these sort of proposals are unworkable when reliability is factored in. Easy to run this sort of route as a running day special but as a regular routing, far more difficult in today’s climate. The days of long routes are long gone. It would be no longer than the 36 or the recently changed 88, I think this is all a bit of a myth quite honestly. If it was a myth, then we wouldn’t have the collection of routes we have today. As for being no longer than the examples you list, every route faces different conditions. The 36 skirts around Central London for starters and the recently changed 88 will have impact on its reliability. I’ve said before I’d love for all these long routes to return but I’m a realist and I’d rather see reliable routes that actually work than long winded ones which fall down due to the ridiculous amount of congestion we have.
|
|
|
Post by redbus on Apr 2, 2019 13:23:34 GMT
The 134 is very well used by people who work in the general Tottenham Court Road / Bloomsbury / Fitzrovia areas. Warren Street is still walkable from much of this area. Mornington Crescent isn't. Cut the route back any further than Warren Street and you will be cutting it back from some of its major traffic objectives (including the hospital). Yes there will be some extra congestion when HS2 work starts but that doesn't justify withdrawing bus services - people still need to get to work. But if congestion is that bad, and I'm not necessarily saying that it will be, the chances are that the majority of passengers will get off and walk or find another route to work and another near empty bus will be adding to the congestion. Another possible option would be rerouting the 134 via Eversholt Street. Here you raise the dilemma. If congestion were to increase due to HS2 works, there are consequences.
1. Do you curtail the route and tough luck to the passengers? Some will walk and so on, but the less mobile, weakest and so on in society will have problems, is that how we should treat them? 2. Keep the route to Warren Street and cut the frequency so as not to increase the PVR ? 3. Keep the route to Warren Street and maintain the frequency and so increase the PVR ?
None of the above options appeal to me. If I had to pick I'd go for option 3, with any PVR increase to be paid for by HS2 as they are causing the problem!
Another possibility are some bus priority measures to main journey times, or HS2 re-organising their work to cause less congestion. I'll go for one of these!
|
|
|
Post by sid on Apr 2, 2019 13:34:44 GMT
It would be no longer than the 36 or the recently changed 88, I think this is all a bit of a myth quite honestly. If it was a myth, then we wouldn’t have the collection of routes we have today. As for being no longer than the examples you list, every route faces different conditions. The 36 skirts around Central London for starters and the recently changed 88 will have impact on its reliability. I’ve said before I’d love for all these long routes to return but I’m a realist and I’d rather see reliable routes that actually work than long winded ones which fall down due to the ridiculous amount of congestion we have. There is no mythical threshold beyond which routes cannot operate and I'd certainly say Canada Water to Hampstead Heath was viable.
|
|
|
Post by sid on Apr 2, 2019 13:35:52 GMT
But if congestion is that bad, and I'm not necessarily saying that it will be, the chances are that the majority of passengers will get off and walk or find another route to work and another near empty bus will be adding to the congestion. Another possible option would be rerouting the 134 via Eversholt Street. Here you raise the dilemma. If congestion were to increase due to HS2 works, there are consequences.
1. Do you curtail the route and tough luck to the passengers? Some will walk and so on, but the less mobile, weakest and so on in society will have problems, is that how we should treat them? 2. Keep the route to Warren Street and cut the frequency so as not to increase the PVR ? 3. Keep the route to Warren Street and maintain the frequency and so increase the PVR ?
None of the above options appeal to me. If I had to pick I'd go for option 3, with any PVR increase to be paid for by HS2 as they are causing the problem!
Another possibility are some bus priority measures to main journey times, or HS2 re-organising their work to cause less congestion. I'll go for one of these!
All depends how bad the congestion is, maybe it won't be that bad?
|
|
|
Post by redbus on Apr 2, 2019 13:54:29 GMT
Here you raise the dilemma. If congestion were to increase due to HS2 works, there are consequences.
1. Do you curtail the route and tough luck to the passengers? Some will walk and so on, but the less mobile, weakest and so on in society will have problems, is that how we should treat them? 2. Keep the route to Warren Street and cut the frequency so as not to increase the PVR ? 3. Keep the route to Warren Street and maintain the frequency and so increase the PVR ?
None of the above options appeal to me. If I had to pick I'd go for option 3, with any PVR increase to be paid for by HS2 as they are causing the problem!
Another possibility are some bus priority measures to main journey times, or HS2 re-organising their work to cause less congestion. I'll go for one of these!
All depends how bad the congestion is, maybe it won't be that bad? Let's hope not, minimal additional congestion would be the best outcome of all.
|
|
|
Post by aaron1 on Apr 2, 2019 19:36:38 GMT
I wold like more routes merge 159 or the 59 merge with 139, merge with 2,N2 merge with 13 merge and the 74 N74 merge with 274
|
|