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Post by snoggle on Aug 11, 2018 14:06:09 GMT
Dr Snoggle has found £100bn spare under the settee so has decided to build some new tube lines. This is just for fun but this is what I'd build. I am not suggesting for a moment that all of this is practical or buildable. All lines would be fully automatic, no drivers, capable of running at up to 90 second headways. 10 car formations on radial routes, 7 cars initially on orbital lines. 1. Scrap Crossrail 2 - waste of time. 2. The Northumberland Line. Runs from Enfield Lock down the Lea Valley line to T Hale serving all existing stns then underground to Stoke Newington, Hackney Downs / Central, Dalston Central, Essex Road, Angel, Mount Pleasant, Holborn, Piccadilly Circus, Victoria, Battersea PS, Clapham Junction, Earlsfield, Wimbledon, Raynes Park. 2. The Southern Line. Runs from West Norwood, Tulse Hill, Herne Hill, Brixton, Oval, Elephant and Castle, St James Park, Hyde Park Corner, Marble Arch, Edgware Road, Kilburn High Rd / Park, Kilburn / Brondesbury, Cricklewood, Brent Cross, Hendon NR, Colindale, Finchley Central 3. The Western Outer Line. Runs from Mill Hill Broadway, Edgware, Stanmore, Belmont, Harrow and Wealdstone, Harrow on the Hill, South Harrow, Northolt, Yeading, Uxbridge Road, Hayes and Harlington, Heathrow, Feltham. 4. The Eastern Outer Line. Runs from Canary Wharf, Barking, Barking Reach, Thamesmead, Abbey Wood, Bexleyheath, Sidcup, Chislehurst, Bromley Town Centre (travelator links to North and South stns), Beckenham Junction, Norwood Junction, East Croydon, Sutton. 5. The South West Line. Runs from Sutton, Rose Hill / St Helier, Morden, Mitcham, Tooting Broadway, Wandsworth Common, Clapham Junction, Imperial Wharf, Gloucester Road, Marble Arch, Regents Park / Gt Portland Street, Euston / KX, Holloway Road, Crouch End, Muswell Hill. Ta da - £20bn each.  PS Bromley is getting a tube line whether the council wants one or not.  |
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Post by wirewiper on Aug 11, 2018 14:26:13 GMT
Dr Snoggle has found £100bn spare under the settee so has decided to build some new tube lines. This is just for fun but this is what I'd build. I am not suggesting for a moment that all of this is practical or buildable. All lines would be fully automatic, no drivers, capable of running at up to 90 second headways. 10 car formations on radial routes, 7 cars initially on orbital lines. 1. Scrap Crossrail 2 - waste of time. 2. The Northumberland Line. Runs from Enfield Lock down the Lea Valley line to T Hale serving all existing stns then underground to Stoke Newington, Hackney Downs / Central, Dalston Central, Essex Road, Angel, Mount Pleasant, Holborn, Piccadilly Circus, Victoria, Battersea PS, Clapham Junction, Earlsfield, Wimbledon, Raynes Park. 2. The Southern Line. Runs from West Norwood, Tulse Hill, Herne Hill, Brixton, Oval, Elephant and Castle, St James Park, Hyde Park Corner, Marble Arch, Edgware Road, Kilburh High Rd / Park, Kilburn / Brondesbury, Cricklewood, Brent Cross, Hendon NR, Colindale, Finchley Central 3. The Western Outer Line. Runs from Mill Hill Broadway, Edgware, Stanmore, Belmont, Harrow and Wealdstone, Harrow on the Hill, South Harrow, Northolt, Yeading, Uxbridge Road, Hayes and Harlington, Heathrow, Feltham. 4. The Eastern Outer Line. Runs from Canary Wharf, Barking, Barking Reach, Thamesmead, Abbey Wood, Bexleyheath, Sidcup, Chislehurst, Bromley Town Centre (travelator links to North and South stns), Beckenham Junction, Norwood Junction, East Croydon, Sutton. 5. The South West Line. Runs from Sutton, Rose Hill / St Helier, Morden, Mitcham, Tooting Broadway, Wandsworth Common, Clapham Junction, Imperial Wharf, Gloucester Road, Marble Arch, Regents Park / Gt Portland Street, Euston / KX, Holloway Road, Crouch Hill, Muswell Hill. Ta da - £20bn each. PS Bromley is getting a tube line whether the council wants one or not. All perfectly possible once General Wirewiper overthrows the UK Government and sets himself up as the head of a benevolent dictatorship. The first act will be to bring in Chinese-style development law, which ordain that any property standing in the way of these schemes is to be sacrificed for the Greater Good of The State and its Leader, er, sorry, People. Oh and you needn't worry about Bromley Council, it will be "disappeared". |
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Post by busaholic on Aug 11, 2018 22:16:24 GMT
Dr Snoggle has found £100bn spare under the settee so has decided to build some new tube lines. This is just for fun but this is what I'd build. I am not suggesting for a moment that all of this is practical or buildable. All lines would be fully automatic, no drivers, capable of running at up to 90 second headways. 10 car formations on radial routes, 7 cars initially on orbital lines. 1. Scrap Crossrail 2 - waste of time. 2. The Northumberland Line. Runs from Enfield Lock down the Lea Valley line to T Hale serving all existing stns then underground to Stoke Newington, Hackney Downs / Central, Dalston Central, Essex Road, Angel, Mount Pleasant, Holborn, Piccadilly Circus, Victoria, Battersea PS, Clapham Junction, Earlsfield, Wimbledon, Raynes Park. 2. The Southern Line. Runs from West Norwood, Tulse Hill, Herne Hill, Brixton, Oval, Elephant and Castle, St James Park, Hyde Park Corner, Marble Arch, Edgware Road, Kilburh High Rd / Park, Kilburn / Brondesbury, Cricklewood, Brent Cross, Hendon NR, Colindale, Finchley Central 3. The Western Outer Line. Runs from Mill Hill Broadway, Edgware, Stanmore, Belmont, Harrow and Wealdstone, Harrow on the Hill, South Harrow, Northolt, Yeading, Uxbridge Road, Hayes and Harlington, Heathrow, Feltham. 4. The Eastern Outer Line. Runs from Canary Wharf, Barking, Barking Reach, Thamesmead, Abbey Wood, Bexleyheath, Sidcup, Chislehurst, Bromley Town Centre (travelator links to North and South stns), Beckenham Junction, Norwood Junction, East Croydon, Sutton. 5. The South West Line. Runs from Sutton, Rose Hill / St Helier, Morden, Mitcham, Tooting Broadway, Wandsworth Common, Clapham Junction, Imperial Wharf, Gloucester Road, Marble Arch, Regents Park / Gt Portland Street, Euston / KX, Holloway Road, Crouch Hill, Muswell Hill. Ta da - £20bn each. PS Bromley is getting a tube line whether the council wants one or not. All perfectly possible once General Wirewiper overthrows the UK Government and sets himself up as the head of a benevolent dictatorship. The first act will be to bring in Chinese-style development law, which ordain that any property standing in the way of these schemes is to be sacrificed for the Greater Good of The State and its Leader, er, sorry, People. Oh and you needn't worry about Bromley Council, it will be "disappeared". Bromley Council - tell me about them. Worked for them twice when young and foolish, then almost got the ex-leader of it as a next door neighbour when I lived in Blackheath: was saved, not by the bell, but by the fact that when he found out we had a Lewisham (SE 13) postcode rather than the more desirable SE3 he pulled out of the purchase. A very close shave: he later became a Tory MP for a very unlikely place! |
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Post by rmz19 on Aug 11, 2018 23:32:43 GMT
Dr Snoggle has found £100bn spare under the settee so has decided to build some new tube lines. This is just for fun but this is what I'd build. I am not suggesting for a moment that all of this is practical or buildable. All lines would be fully automatic, no drivers, capable of running at up to 90 second headways. 10 car formations on radial routes, 7 cars initially on orbital lines. These ideas definitely get my seal of approval! If that means anything. One thing, with that amount of money wouldn't you rather clean up the mess TFL left in the bus network? Perhaps half of that can go to building new lines and the other half towards a better bus network. A win-win situation! |
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Post by snoggle on Aug 11, 2018 23:51:37 GMT
Dr Snoggle has found £100bn spare under the settee so has decided to build some new tube lines. This is just for fun but this is what I'd build. I am not suggesting for a moment that all of this is practical or buildable. All lines would be fully automatic, no drivers, capable of running at up to 90 second headways. 10 car formations on radial routes, 7 cars initially on orbital lines. These ideas definitely get my seal of approval! If that means anything. One thing, with that amount of money wouldn't you rather clean up the mess TFL left in the bus network? Perhaps half of that can go to building new lines and the other half towards a better bus network. A win-win situation! I just thought I'd do something a bit different. We're going round in circles with a lot of bus topics at the moment because everyone's waiting for the next piece of news from TfL. The debate is going a bit stale but there's only so much that can be said when you have a void of information. Clearly these tube lines would create opportunities for restructured and amended bus services in a lot of places. However the main intent was adding very high capacity services where they would be beneficial, taking pressure off many existing interchange stations in Zone 1, linking a lot of NR radial lines to provide some relief or create new journey opportunities in outer London and reducing journey times considerably on certain corridors. It also in some respects takes us away from the "Crossrail" idea which, if people stopped for a moment to think, is not exactly performing with flying colours. Thameslink is a disaster with little sign of meaningful improvement and Crossrail has had to split its service groupings into two to try to avoid the nightmares that Thameslink suffers from. At least tube lines are capable of being run end to end at high frequency if they are designed properly as seen on several of the upgraded LU lines. I have long been of the view that the lack of any meaningful strategy to grow the tube network properly is a woeful gap. Mayors (and Mayoral candidates) have become obsessed with Crossrail and CR2. Modelling everything along National Rail lines is creating rigidities and problems that a "new generation" of tube line could avoid. That's why I specified long formations and automatic operation - lots of capacity, flexible operation in response to demand, high speeds, high frequency. A bit like the Victoria Line on steroids. The trains would also be sub surface profile not traditional deep tube stock profile. |
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Post by COBO on Aug 12, 2018 14:10:15 GMT
Dr Snoggle has found £100bn spare under the settee so has decided to build some new tube lines. This is just for fun but this is what I'd build. I am not suggesting for a moment that all of this is practical or buildable. All lines would be fully automatic, no drivers, capable of running at up to 90 second headways. 10 car formations on radial routes, 7 cars initially on orbital lines. 1. Scrap Crossrail 2 - waste of time. 2. The Southern Line. Runs from West Norwood, Tulse Hill, Herne Hill, Brixton, Oval, Elephant and Castle, St James Park, Hyde Park Corner, Marble Arch, Edgware Road, Kilburn High Rd / Park, Kilburn / Brondesbury, Cricklewood, Brent Cross, Hendon NR, Colindale, Finchley Central Good idea on. By scraping or postponing Crossrail 2 TfL can save some money. I have heard that TfL wanted to split the Northern Line and rename the Southern part of Northern Line the Southern Line. I would like to do the following: 1. Extend the Bakerloo Line to Watford Junction 2. Reroute the Metropolitan Line to Watford Junction 3. Close West Rusilip Underground Station reroute the Central Line to Uxbridge 4. Create a branch of Crossrail 1 sorry I mean the Elizabeth Line to Birmingham via Northolt to Acton Line and Chiltern Main Line. Sorry for hijacking the thread. |
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Post by busaholic on Aug 12, 2018 16:32:10 GMT
Dr Snoggle has found £100bn spare under the settee so has decided to build some new tube lines. This is just for fun but this is what I'd build. I am not suggesting for a moment that all of this is practical or buildable. All lines would be fully automatic, no drivers, capable of running at up to 90 second headways. 10 car formations on radial routes, 7 cars initially on orbital lines. 1. Scrap Crossrail 2 - waste of time. 2. The Northumberland Line. Runs from Enfield Lock down the Lea Valley line to T Hale serving all existing stns then underground to Stoke Newington, Hackney Downs / Central, Dalston Central, Essex Road, Angel, Mount Pleasant, Holborn, Piccadilly Circus, Victoria, Battersea PS, Clapham Junction, Earlsfield, Wimbledon, Raynes Park. 2. The Southern Line. Runs from West Norwood, Tulse Hill, Herne Hill, Brixton, Oval, Elephant and Castle, St James Park, Hyde Park Corner, Marble Arch, Edgware Road, Kilburn High Rd / Park, Kilburn / Brondesbury, Cricklewood, Brent Cross, Hendon NR, Colindale, Finchley Central 3. The Western Outer Line. Runs from Mill Hill Broadway, Edgware, Stanmore, Belmont, Harrow and Wealdstone, Harrow on the Hill, South Harrow, Northolt, Yeading, Uxbridge Road, Hayes and Harlington, Heathrow, Feltham. 4. The Eastern Outer Line. Runs from Canary Wharf, Barking, Barking Reach, Thamesmead, Abbey Wood, Bexleyheath, Sidcup, Chislehurst, Bromley Town Centre (travelator links to North and South stns), Beckenham Junction, Norwood Junction, East Croydon, Sutton. 5. The South West Line. Runs from Sutton, Rose Hill / St Helier, Morden, Mitcham, Tooting Broadway, Wandsworth Common, Clapham Junction, Imperial Wharf, Gloucester Road, Marble Arch, Regents Park / Gt Portland Street, Euston / KX, Holloway Road, Crouch End, Muswell Hill. Ta da - £20bn each. PS Bromley is getting a tube line whether the council wants one or not. Elon Musk is alive and well and living in Waltham Forest, apparently. 
Your Northumberland Line is not dissimilar to one or more of the Crossrail 2 proposals, as far as Wimbledon/Raynes Park anyway. The question then is what you do with all the trains arriving at the latter point(s), assuming that the full service is needed to this point.
I agree that the CURRENT Thameslink is a complete shambles and nobody sane would suggest trying to replicate what's supposed to happen now. Great Northern should never have been brought into it nor imo should so many trains attempt to go via London Bridge, particularly on the SE side. If any semblance of order is ever to prevail, I'd think 8tph via London Bridge, 4 tph of which go via Brockley to supplement the 4 tph Overground service to West Croydon, and 8 tph maximum to GN, of which absolutely none are scheduled to Peterborough, Cambridge or Kings Lynn is the maximum that should be attempted. Then you have the nonsense of the AC to DC switch in the tunnels, with no avoiding lines should anything go wrong. A catastrophic cock-up!
Back to topic, though, and I agree Crossrail 2 as presently proposed is a no-no, but, with a Tory government that seems inevitable whatever self-inflicted disasters befall us we should pretend that the Surrey shires of SWR land are going to get connected to the new tunnel build, go ahead with all the tunnelling and then just forget to send any of their trains through except, I suggest, 4 tph to Kingston and another 4 tph to the next most deserving destination (or all 8 tph to Kingston.) Is there still any available spare land in proximity to Raynes Park to create stabling for the other trains?
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Post by snoggle on Aug 12, 2018 16:55:54 GMT
Elon Musk is alive and well and living in Waltham Forest, apparently. What have I done to upset you that warranted that comparison? Elon Musk is an crass egotistical idiot bereft of any common sense. I think I know a bit more about public transport than he does. |
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Post by M1104 on Aug 12, 2018 17:16:13 GMT
I would like to do the following: 1. Extend the Bakerloo Line to Watford Junction 2. Reroute the Metropolitan Line to Watford Junction 3. Close West Rusilip Underground Station reroute the Central Line to Uxbridge 4. Create a branch of Crossrail 1 sorry I mean the Elizabeth Line to Birmingham via Northolt to Acton Line and Chiltern Main Line. Sorry for hijacking the thread. Victoria Line beyond Brixton to Croydon Northern Line beyond Morden to Sutton with the Battersea branch extended to Clapham Junction (that at least could be a reality in future) District Line beyond Wimbledon to Chessington South Croydon tram towards Wimbledon branch off just after Morden Road station along Merantum Way to Merton Abbey or Colliers Wood |
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Post by LBOTG on Aug 12, 2018 17:54:51 GMT
Love these ideas, would be so well used and provides some much needed capacity in areas which need them.
I, in fact, created my own fantasy tube lines and now the topic has been discussed I might share them here - there are many similarities to your proposals too.
Funding aside, I would suggest running the inner route every 6 minutes in each direction and the outer every 7-8 minutes, using six car trains.
Outer Link Circuit: Kingston-Surbiton-Tolworth-Worcester Park-North Cheam-Sutton-Carshalton-Beddington-Croydon Central (link two stations)-Shirley-West Wickham-Locksbottom-Orpington-St Mary Cray-Sidcup-Blackfen-Bexleyheath Town Centre-Erith-Dagenham Heathway-Romford-Havering Park-Hainault-Barkingside-Clayhall-South Woodford-Highams Park-Chingford Mount-Ponders End-Southbury-Enfield Central (link Town/Chase)-Southgate-Oakleigh Park-High Barnet-Mill Hill Broadway-Edgware-Stanmore-Harrow & Wealdstone-Harrow On The Hill-South Harrow-Northolt-Yeading-Southall-Cranford-Hounslow Central-Feltham-Hanworth-Hampton Court-Kingston (vice versa)
Inner Link Circuit: Kingston-New Malden-Raynes Park-Wimbledon-South Wimbledon-Tooting-Mitcham-Pollards Hill-Thornton Heath-Norwood Junction-Elmers End-Beckenham Junction-Bromley Central-Grove Park-Mottingham-Eltham-Kidbrooke-Shooters Hill-Woolwich-Thamesmead-Barking Riverside-Barking-Ilford-Leytonstone-Walthamstow Central-Higham Hill-Meridian Water-Edmonton Green-Palmers Green-Arnos Grove-North Finchley-Finchley Central-Hendon-Brent Cross-Neasden-Wembley Central-Alperton-Park Royal-Ealing Broadway-Northfields-Brentford-Richmond-Kingston (vice versa)
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Post by busaholic on Aug 12, 2018 20:14:53 GMT
Elon Musk is alive and well and living in Waltham Forest, apparently. What have I done to upset you that warranted that comparison? Elon Musk is an crass egotistical idiot bereft of any common sense. I think I know a bit more about public transport than he does. I'm sure you do - the reference was more to you having the spare hundreds of billions , or whatever it was. You appear not to appreciate my contributions, I have noticed, so I shan't directly respond to yours in future, if that's your wish, no matter how critical you are of mine, OK? |
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Post by snoggle on Aug 12, 2018 20:36:13 GMT
What have I done to upset you that warranted that comparison? Elon Musk is an crass egotistical idiot bereft of any common sense. I think I know a bit more about public transport than he does. I'm sure you do - the reference was more to you having the spare hundreds of billions , or whatever it was. You appear not to appreciate my contributions, I have noticed, so I shan't directly respond to yours in future, if that's your wish, no matter how critical you are of mine, OK? I fear you have noticed incorrectly. I have no issues whatsoever with your posts here or on another forum. Feel free to respond as you see fit. I may not always agree with you but then I rarely agree with many people on here - no change there from life away from forums. I am used to being not in line with general public opinion or on issues in the workplace. It comes from being an awkward opinionated b*gg*r. Don't interpret disagreement on some topics as a lack of appreciation. Everyone's contribution on here has equal standing when it comes to the crunch. I don't like the comparison, even loosely, with Mr Musk which is why you got a reaction.  |
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Post by ronnie on Aug 12, 2018 21:33:02 GMT
Love these ideas, would be so well used and provides some much needed capacity in areas which need them. I, in fact, created my own fantasy tube lines and now the topic has been discussed I might share them here - there are many similarities to your proposals too. Funding aside, I would suggest running the inner route every 6 minutes in each direction and the outer every 7-8 minutes, using six car trains. Outer Link Circuit: Kingston-Surbiton-Tolworth-Worcester Park-North Cheam-Sutton-Carshalton-Beddington-Croydon Central (link two stations)-Shirley-West Wickham-Locksbottom-Orpington-St Mary Cray-Sidcup-Blackfen-Bexleyheath Town Centre-Erith-Dagenham Heathway-Romford-Havering Park-Hainault-Barkingside-Clayhall-South Woodford-Highams Park-Chingford Mount-Ponders End-Southbury-Enfield Central (link Town/Chase)-Southgate-Oakleigh Park-High Barnet-Mill Hill Broadway-Edgware-Stanmore-Harrow & Wealdstone-Harrow On The Hill-South Harrow-Northolt-Yeading-Southall-Cranford-Hounslow Central-Feltham-Hanworth-Hampton Court-Kingston (vice versa) Inner Link Circuit: Kingston-New Malden-Raynes Park-Wimbledon-South Wimbledon-Tooting-Mitcham-Pollards Hill-Thornton Heath-Norwood Junction-Elmers End-Beckenham Junction-Bromley Central-Grove Park-Mottingham-Eltham-Kidbrooke-Shooters Hill-Woolwich-Thamesmead-Barking Riverside-Barking-Ilford-Leytonstone-Walthamstow Central-Higham Hill-Meridian Water-Edmonton Green-Palmers Green-Arnos Grove-North Finchley-Finchley Central-Hendon-Brent Cross-Neasden-Wembley Central-Alperton-Park Royal-Ealing Broadway-Northfields-Brentford-Richmond-Kingston (vice versa) I like the orbital idea - was about to post something similar. Have done a few trips recently which have been quite odd (IoD to Tottenham Hale as an example - a rather convoluted set of changes! Same for a few other trips I have done recently) so the orbital idea would work amazingly |
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Post by vjaska on Aug 12, 2018 23:41:22 GMT
I would like to do the following: 1. Extend the Bakerloo Line to Watford Junction 2. Reroute the Metropolitan Line to Watford Junction 3. Close West Rusilip Underground Station reroute the Central Line to Uxbridge 4. Create a branch of Crossrail 1 sorry I mean the Elizabeth Line to Birmingham via Northolt to Acton Line and Chiltern Main Line. Sorry for hijacking the thread. Victoria Line beyond Brixton to Croydon Northern Line beyond Morden to Sutton with the Battersea branch extended to Clapham Junction (that at least could be a reality in future) District Line beyond Wimbledon to Chessington South Croydon tram towards Wimbledon branch off just after Morden Road station along Merantum Way to Merton Abbey or Colliers Wood I agree with the Victoria Line idea although an alternative I have is to branch off the Bakerloo line after Elephant & Castle with one branch being the one to Lewisham and the other serving the following: Camberwell (quite criminal that a station still has opened here), Brixton, Herne Hill, Tulse Hill, Streatham Hill, Streatham, West Norwood, Norbury, Thornton Heath, West Croydon & East Croydon I think the Clapham Junction section could certainly be a reality in the future as apparently, the route has been safeguarded? |
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Post by snoggle on Aug 12, 2018 23:50:28 GMT
Victoria Line beyond Brixton to Croydon Northern Line beyond Morden to Sutton with the Battersea branch extended to Clapham Junction (that at least could be a reality in future) District Line beyond Wimbledon to Chessington South Croydon tram towards Wimbledon branch off just after Morden Road station along Merantum Way to Merton Abbey or Colliers Wood I agree with the Victoria Line idea although an alternative I have is to branch off the Bakerloo line after Elephant & Castle with one branch being the one to Lewisham and the other serving the following: Camberwell (quite criminal that a station still has opened here), Brixton, Herne Hill, Tulse Hill, Streatham Hill, Streatham, West Norwood, Norbury, Thornton Heath, West Croydon & East Croydon I think the Clapham Junction section could certainly be a reality in the future as apparently, the route has been safeguarded? I very specifically avoided extending the Victoria Line because it wouldn't work. I decided to add brand new tube lines which would stand a far better chance of coping with demand from areas to the south of Brixton. Brixton will always have strong tube demand - it's just how it is. Extending the Vic so that it arrives full to the brim in Brixton solves nothing. New tube lines that filter off some of the bus / rail flows that feed into the Vic Line is the way to cater for those areas. I still reckon that within a few years some of my proposed lines would be struggling to cope. The other logic in my proposals was to try to create lines with high flows either side of the central area that would justify the scale of service. |
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