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Post by snowman on Sept 5, 2018 8:25:01 GMT
Production of the 222 carriages for Overground is being ramped up East Midlands Business Link articleReminder of split 710/1 are ac only, 710/2 are dual voltage 30 units 4 car class 710/1 for Lee Valley lines (Chingford/Enfield etc) 1 unit 4 car class 710/1 for Romford-Upmister 17 units 4 car class 710/2 for Watford DC line and GOBLIN 6 units 5 car class 710/2 for North London line (and Barking extension) Production is due to end late 2019
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Post by snoggle on Sept 5, 2018 9:19:53 GMT
Production of the 222 carriages for Overground is being ramped up East Midlands Business Link articleReminder of split 710/1 are ac only, 710/2 are dual voltage 30 units 4 car class 710/1 for Lee Valley lines (Chingford/Enfield etc) 1 unit 4 car class 710/1 for Romford-Upmister 17 units 4 car class 710/2 for Watford DC line and GOBLIN 6 units 5 car class 710/2 for North London line (and Barking extension) Production is due to end late 2019 There is no point ramping up production of trains that can't operate on the NR network. I'd be a darn sight happier if the article said that development of viable, working software was being accelerated. There's no room in London to store more LO trains that can't work. Derby is rumoured to running out of space too. I don't believe a 710 is coming for Romford-Upminster as the proposed deployment changed when the add on order was placed. A 315 is rumoured to be retained for that line. Also the 5 car units are only for the NLL/WLL. Only 4 car trains can run on the GOBLIN - IIRC 3 new units are being ordered for the Riverside extension. Can't recall the number for the NLL/WLL. In the short term, before Riverside completes, TfL will have a surplus of new trains that they no use for. There was speculative talk of running some extras on the WLL which would ease peak time crush loadings but no good if they're taken away after a couple of years.
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Post by ADH45258 on Sept 5, 2018 14:56:45 GMT
Production of the 222 carriages for Overground is being ramped up East Midlands Business Link articleReminder of split 710/1 are ac only, 710/2 are dual voltage 30 units 4 car class 710/1 for Lee Valley lines (Chingford/Enfield etc) 1 unit 4 car class 710/1 for Romford-Upmister 17 units 4 car class 710/2 for Watford DC line and GOBLIN 6 units 5 car class 710/2 for North London line (and Barking extension) Production is due to end late 2019 There is no point ramping up production of trains that can't operate on the NR network. I'd be a darn sight happier if the article said that development of viable, working software was being accelerated. There's no room in London to store more LO trains that can't work. Derby is rumoured to running out of space too. I don't believe a 710 is coming for Romford-Upminster as the proposed deployment changed when the add on order was placed. A 315 is rumoured to be retained for that line. Also the 5 car units are only for the NLL/WLL. Only 4 car trains can run on the GOBLIN - IIRC 3 new units are being ordered for the Riverside extension. Can't recall the number for the NLL/WLL. In the short term, before Riverside completes, TfL will have a surplus of new trains that they no use for. There was speculative talk of running some extras on the WLL which would ease peak time crush loadings but no good if they're taken away after a couple of years. Why is the Watford line being reduced from 5 to 4 cars? With a low frequency of just 3tph on a busy route, even the existing 5-car 378s can struggle in terms of capacity.
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Post by snoggle on Sept 5, 2018 15:02:31 GMT
Why is the Watford line being reduced from 5 to 4 cars? With a low frequency of just 3tph on a busy route, even the existing 5-car 378s can struggle in terms of capacity. The Watford DC service is supposed to increase to 4tph. However this depends on whether the signalling can cope with that *and* the LU Bakerloo line workings. I'm sure I've read somewhere that LU is struggling to construct a viable timetable around the 4 tph LO timetable with the limited signalling capacity on the route. It's the short workings to Stonebridge Park that are proving difficult to fit in. British Rail scaled back the signalling capacity in the 1980s and it's never been increased. Any future change would have to be co-ordinated with the Bakerloo Line upgrade - if / when that ever happens. I don't use the Watford route very much and not in the peaks but it's been like the land of tumbleweed when I've used it. I've never seen a class 378 get remotely near all the seats being occupied never mind having a standee crush loading across all 5 cars. NLL, WLL and ELL - yes but Watford DC no.
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Post by snoggle on Oct 26, 2018 15:42:37 GMT
Looks like the first run of a Class 710 into Liverpool St and to Enfield Town is scheduled for tonight. Runs Willesden - NLL - Stratford - Liv St - Enfield Town - Liv St - Stratford (I think) - NLL - Willesden TMD. I haven't checked all the detail on the return run from Liv St - it might run via the Graham Rd curve in Hackney.
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Post by TA1 on Oct 26, 2018 23:03:29 GMT
Looks like the first run of a Class 710 into Liverpool St and to Enfield Town is scheduled for tonight. Runs Willesden - NLL - Stratford - Liv St - Enfield Town - Liv St - Stratford (I think) - NLL - Willesden TMD. I haven't checked all the detail on the return run from Liv St - it might run via the Graham Rd curve in Hackney. As it stands as I compile this post, the test run did not run. However, if the unit ran from Willesden TMD to Liverpool Street, It would run via Channelsea Junction vice Graham Road. Hopefully testing is ramped up for the GOBLIN and route familiarisation is undertaken for the West Anglia routes.
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Post by Lukeo on Nov 5, 2018 23:58:25 GMT
Why is the Watford line being reduced from 5 to 4 cars? With a low frequency of just 3tph on a busy route, even the existing 5-car 378s can struggle in terms of capacity. The Watford DC service is supposed to increase to 4tph. However this depends on whether the signalling can cope with that *and* the LU Bakerloo line workings. I'm sure I've read somewhere that LU is struggling to construct a viable timetable around the 4 tph LO timetable with the limited signalling capacity on the route. It's the short workings to Stonebridge Park that are proving difficult to fit in. British Rail scaled back the signalling capacity in the 1980s and it's never been increased. Any future change would have to be co-ordinated with the Bakerloo Line upgrade - if / when that ever happens. I don't use the Watford route very much and not in the peaks but it's been like the land of tumbleweed when I've used it. I've never seen a class 378 get remotely near all the seats being occupied never mind having a standee crush loading across all 5 cars. NLL, WLL and ELL - yes but Watford DC no. Very late reply, but the Watford branch gets extremely packed during the morning peak to the point where it's difficult to get on at all. Can't comment on the evening. Glad to hear the increase to 4tph may finally be happening, but I do wonder why they wouldn't continue to have 5 car trains too.
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Post by snoggle on Nov 6, 2018 15:24:21 GMT
Very late reply, but the Watford branch gets extremely packed during the morning peak to the point where it's difficult to get on at all. Can't comment on the evening. Glad to hear the increase to 4tph may finally be happening, but I do wonder why they wouldn't continue to have 5 car trains too. Well I assume TfL have done their calculations and judged 4 x 4 car trains per hour is sufficient. Money may also have been a factor given TfL have bought very few class 710s with 5 cars. Let's hope the signalling can actually cope with that level of service given it was cut back in BR days and hasn't been increased since.
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Post by redbus on Nov 6, 2018 18:49:10 GMT
Looks like the first run of a Class 710 into Liverpool St and to Enfield Town is scheduled for tonight. Runs Willesden - NLL - Stratford - Liv St - Enfield Town - Liv St - Stratford (I think) - NLL - Willesden TMD. I haven't checked all the detail on the return run from Liv St - it might run via the Graham Rd curve in Hackney. Clearly you have never seen it at peak times snoggle . I have used it, and whilst not absolutely packed to the rafters, I have had uncomfortable standing journeys, never mind there being spare seats.
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Post by snoggle on Nov 6, 2018 20:11:00 GMT
Clearly you have never seen it at peak times snoggle . I have used it, and whilst not absolutely packed to the rafters, I have had uncomfortable standing journeys, never mind there being spare seats. If you are referring to the Watford line I fully acknowledged my lack of usage and zero at peak times in an earlier post. I do try to ensure there is proper context to my posts when referring to "user experience" of a service.
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Post by snoggle on Dec 6, 2018 12:49:58 GMT
The first ever Class 710 working into Liverpool St mainline happened last night. This working was due to happen a week or so ago but was cancelled.
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Post by ServerKing on Mar 26, 2019 19:17:17 GMT
The first ever Class 710 working into Liverpool St mainline happened last night. This working was due to happen a week or so ago but was cancelled. Will there be a rollout of these to the West Anglia line or will the local streets still hear the loud whine of 317 traction motors?
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Post by snoggle on Mar 26, 2019 21:17:46 GMT
Will there be a rollout of these to the West Anglia line or will the local streets still hear the loud whine of 317 traction motors? There will eventually be a double roll out. All the Overground trains (315 and 317) are to be replaced by AC version Class 710s. Then the Greater Anglia local services will be converted to 5 car Aventras - in the peaks some will go via Edmonton Green (as today). The Stansted Express trains will be Stadler fixed formation 12 car units. There are problems with the length of the 5 car Aventras - when coupled to form 10 car units they are longer than a number of platforms on the West Anglia route. No one has authorised or funded Network Rail to extend the platforms which means either 5 car units in the peak when 10 cars are needed or trains can't stop at the platforms. This will mean the Hertford East branch becoming inoperable. No one knows how this will be resolved. The key question with all of this is when? No one has a clue when a 710 will run in passenger service for LO. The batch for Greater Anglia is months late - not a single unit has been delivered as it would be pointless given the software isn't finalised on the LO units. I understand a 12 car Stadler unit is due imminently. A 5 car bi-mode unit (for use in East Anglia) is already on test in and around Norwich.
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Post by joefrombow on Mar 27, 2019 19:06:27 GMT
Will there be a rollout of these to the West Anglia line or will the local streets still hear the loud whine of 317 traction motors? There will eventually be a double roll out. All the Overground trains (315 and 317) are to be replaced by AC version Class 710s. Then the Greater Anglia local services will be converted to 5 car Aventras - in the peaks some will go via Edmonton Green (as today). The Stansted Express trains will be Stadler fixed formation 12 car units. There are problems with the length of the 5 car Aventras - when coupled to form 10 car units they are longer than a number of platforms on the West Anglia route. No one has authorised or funded Network Rail to extend the platforms which means either 5 car units in the peak when 10 cars are needed or trains can't stop at the platforms. This will mean the Hertford East branch becoming inoperable. No one knows how this will be resolved. The key question with all of this is when? No one has a clue when a 710 will run in passenger service for LO. The batch for Greater Anglia is months late - not a single unit has been delivered as it would be pointless given the software isn't finalised on the LO units. I understand a 12 car Stadler unit is due imminently. A 5 car bi-mode unit (for use in East Anglia) is already on test in and around Norwich. "Drink up" and Brewery come to mind the works for this should have started months if not a few years ago really is a shambles and this isn't down to GA I would say down to National Rail very poor planning , I did see today in the Guardian a article saying that Tfl are going to try to get approval to run the South Eastern Lines again but also take over the infrastructure in place of National Rail maybe this could be done on the West Anglia inner suburban lines and the Hertford East Branch .
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Post by snoggle on Mar 27, 2019 19:51:53 GMT
"Drink up" and Brewery come to mind the works for this should have started months if not a few years ago really is a shambles and this isn't down to GA I would say down to National Rail very poor planning , I did see today in the Guardian a article saying that Tfl are going to try to get approval to run the South Eastern Lines again but also take over the infrastructure in place of National Rail maybe this could be done on the West Anglia inner suburban lines and the Hertford East Branch . I agree it is a mess. However it is not Network Rail's fault. The bid for Greater Anglia which requires full fleet replacement was put together without reference to any of the operational people within Greater Anglia or in Network Rail. Therefore what has been won is, in essence, undeliverable and inoperable. Sadly it is not uncommon for "bid teams" in loads of businesses, not just railways, to do their own thing to win and then walk away. Their bid is then down to other poor souls to pick up and deliver. Worse not only is there is no communication with the operational and engineering people but whatever assumptions were made by the bid team are often undiscoverable. Therefore the people saddled with delivering the impossible don't even know what was going through the minds of the people who did the bid. There are widespread concerns on Greater Anglia - the planned depot location near Manningtree was a swamp and can't be used, infrastructure constraints were not identified and no funding was set aside for this risk, the Aventras are late, the Stadler trains may have dwell time issues at a number of stops. I'm sure I've missed a load of stuff. I think I read the platform extension works are now scheduled for 2021 which creates a load of short term issues as to what trains can run and where. Sadly you can't just magic this stuff out of thin air. It all has to be properly designed, procured and the necessary possessions put in place. On busy routes like Anglia it is not easy to get possessions because so much traffic has to diverted or replacements planned. Worse there will be enormous pressure to not close what will likely be Crossrail services in 2020. Network Rail also have rules about preventing multiple closure of routes at the same - for example West Anglia couldn't have possessions while the GOBLIN had possessions for its upgrade. There are loads of these which can very easily delay works simply because there are competing works. I think we can all be guilty, for good reasons, of seeing things very simply and wondering why "easy" stuff just isn't done. Sometimes it is incompetence or inefficiency that stops stuff happening. However a lot of the time there are genuine reasons (not excuses) as to why "simple" things are actually horrendously involved. Until I had to do a piece of work about possession planning on the Underground I had no idea how ludicrously involved it was and how much work was needed to get the work planned properly, the resources identified and booked and then all the consequential stuff about planning replacement bus services etc. I don't like the fact the Aventra trains are very late but I do want them to safe and reliable. I don't understand software development nor the interraction between the actual engineering of the train and its components. Therefore I don't appreciate the undoubted enormity of the task facing the software and rolling stock engineers.
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