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Post by busaholic on Sept 8, 2018 13:53:19 GMT
Are any forum members able to say what the public reaction to the 1968 changes was? Clearly they were enormous in scale and would have had far reaching consequences for a lot of people. Nowadays everyone can have their say via social media etc but that didn't exist 50 years ago. Did people complain / praise London Transport? Was there a reaction in the London daily newspapers? Did LT lose or gain passengers as a result of the changes? Unfortunately DfT stats on bus pass jnys only start in 1970 but London's bus patronage kept falling until 1983 when there was some improvement but things wobbled again in the mid 1990s. I'd be surprised if people meekly accepted such huge changes but perhaps people just shrugged their shoulders and took to their cars instead if the buses were no longer any good? There's quite a section on this in the Barry Arnold 'Reshaping London's Buses' book, which I've finally got hold of and can thoroughly recommend as a truly comprehensive review of the period from the 1965 report which led to the creation of the first Red Arrow route a year later, right into the Metrobus/ Titan era, loads of interesting photos too and maps of networks, many which were never issued to the public. It's not overtly political, but it does delve into the thinking behind the need for reshaping, not least because of the chronic staffing position. There was a lot of research done before the changes, especially in the mid 60s to mid 70s, and public consultation that meant a lot more than it does now! i'll try to bring a flavour of it in a later post, but I don't want to contravene copyright, so I'll have to be careful. In the meantime I'd urge anybody with an interest, not just in the past, but why we're in the position we are, because it's all related, to go and buy or borrow it. Capital Transport are the publishers. |
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Post by busaholic on Sept 8, 2018 21:04:52 GMT
Not a big set of changes but the 2005 changes to the 196, 322 & 355 were certainly massively beneficial, particularly for the 322 which automatically shed its “most unreliable route” tag. riverside did the opening of the Victoria Line produce any changes to routes in the Brixton area? Mea culpa to my previous reply. I couldn't sleep if I was to furnish you with inaccurate info.  The Brixton area WAS affected, by the withdrawal of the 35 between Shoreditch and Chingford Hatch (Chingford on Sats) and a diversion via Hackney Road to Hackney Station. Mind you, it was a bit academic in that most journeys from Clapham Common went no further than Clapton anyway, if not Shoreditch or even Elephant. No more Hackney garage buses in Brixton, though! |
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Post by MetrolineGA1511 on Sept 8, 2018 22:10:00 GMT
Yes, countless frequency increases (evenings and sundays as well), routes going double deck, New night services too in 2002/2003 tied into the congestion charge. Great times. Another year for change for which I can find very little info on the web (correct me if my dates are wrong) was 1993 for East London. 128, 330, 364, 366, 473 we’re born. 69, 147, 173 standardised, D2 lost. There were more changes, but these are the ones I can remember of the off the top my head. If anyone has any more info on these changes, it would be great to know? I remember the 1993 changes really well - It was at the time I was really starting to get interested in buses.
278 Beckton - Limehouse Withdrawn 58 - Withdrawn from Canning Town but extended to East Ham
87 Extended to Beckton Savacentre
276 Diverted to East Beckton Asda
162 Wantead - Barking Garage Withdrawn
108 Withdrawn between Stratford and Wanstead
New Routes
300 Winsor Park - East Ham 325 Prince Regent - East Beckton
308 Wanstead - Hackney Waterden Road Bus Garage
309 Bethnal Green - Poplar Aberfeldy Estate
Was a great time  might be others but can;t think at the moment.
Intriguingly, 1993 routes 300, 308, 309, 325 & 330 are now all run by different operators - Go-Ahead, Tower Transit, CT Plus, Arriva and Stagecoach respectively. |
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Post by MetrolineGA1511 on Sept 8, 2018 22:11:42 GMT
Not a big set of changes but the 2005 changes to the 196, 322 & 355 were certainly massively beneficial, particularly for the 322 which automatically shed its “most unreliable route” tag. riverside did the opening of the Victoria Line produce any changes to routes in the Brixton area? The Brixton extension opened in 1971 but alas I don't know what impact that had on buses in the area. |
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Post by busaholic on Sept 9, 2018 14:08:34 GMT
Not a big set of changes but the 2005 changes to the 196, 322 & 355 were certainly massively beneficial, particularly for the 322 which automatically shed its “most unreliable route” tag. riverside did the opening of the Victoria Line produce any changes to routes in the Brixton area? The Brixton extension opened in 1971 but alas I don't know what impact that had on buses in the area. There weren't any changes to bus routes iirc, nor even to frequencies on obvious routes like the 2. It probably put a halt to the increase in buses over Tulse Hill on the 2B which had been happening at most schedule changes over the previous few years, though. The P4, in common with the other three experimental minibus routes, only started in 1972, but probably would not have gone to Brixton if the Victoria Line hadn't opened. |
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Post by busaholic on Sept 14, 2018 22:45:47 GMT
Are any forum members able to say what the public reaction to the 1968 changes was? Clearly they were enormous in scale and would have had far reaching consequences for a lot of people. Nowadays everyone can have their say via social media etc but that didn't exist 50 years ago. Did people complain / praise London Transport? Was there a reaction in the London daily newspapers? Did LT lose or gain passengers as a result of the changes? Unfortunately DfT stats on bus pass jnys only start in 1970 but London's bus patronage kept falling until 1983 when there was some improvement but things wobbled again in the mid 1990s. I'd be surprised if people meekly accepted such huge changes but perhaps people just shrugged their shoulders and took to their cars instead if the buses were no longer any good? There's quite a section on this in the Barry Arnold 'Reshaping London's Buses' book, which I've finally got hold of and can thoroughly recommend as a truly comprehensive review of the period from the 1965 report which led to the creation of the first Red Arrow route a year later, right into the Metrobus/ Titan era, loads of interesting photos too and maps of networks, many which were never issued to the public. It's not overtly political, but it does delve into the thinking behind the need for reshaping, not least because of the chronic staffing position. There was a lot of research done before the changes, especially in the mid 60s to mid 70s, and public consultation that meant a lot more than it does now! i'll try to bring a flavour of it in a later post, but I don't want to contravene copyright, so I'll have to be careful. In the meantime I'd urge anybody with an interest, not just in the past, but why we're in the position we are, because it's all related, to go and buy or borrow it. Capital Transport are the publishers. My apologies for not being currently able to compose my thoughts into a coherent or useful answer to this question. I was assaulted a few days ago by a drunken thug in broad daylight in the middle of a county town not so far from my home, who obviously felt it'd be amusing to have a go at someone limping by on a stick. Although thankfully not badly physically hurt (my reaction was more of anger) it shook me up a bit, I guess, and I've not completely regained my composure: however, I shall take a stab at it ere long. |
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Post by snoggle on Sept 14, 2018 23:06:49 GMT
My apologies for not being currently able to compose my thoughts into a coherent or useful answer to this question. I was assaulted a few days ago by a drunken thug in broad daylight in the middle of a county town not so far from my home, who obviously felt it'd be amusing to have a go at someone limping by on a stick. Although thankfully not badly physically hurt (my reaction was more of anger) it shook me up a bit, I guess, and I've not completely regained my composure: however, I shall take a stab at it ere long. No apologies necessary. Sorry to hear what has happened to you - it's awful. Having been beaten up *many* years ago I know how difficult it can be to get your confidence and composure back. You're under no obligation from me to draft a response if don't wish to. Getting yourself sorted properly is far more important than a forum. |
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Post by twobellstogo on Sept 15, 2018 12:26:53 GMT
There's quite a section on this in the Barry Arnold 'Reshaping London's Buses' book, which I've finally got hold of and can thoroughly recommend as a truly comprehensive review of the period from the 1965 report which led to the creation of the first Red Arrow route a year later, right into the Metrobus/ Titan era, loads of interesting photos too and maps of networks, many which were never issued to the public. It's not overtly political, but it does delve into the thinking behind the need for reshaping, not least because of the chronic staffing position. There was a lot of research done before the changes, especially in the mid 60s to mid 70s, and public consultation that meant a lot more than it does now! i'll try to bring a flavour of it in a later post, but I don't want to contravene copyright, so I'll have to be careful. In the meantime I'd urge anybody with an interest, not just in the past, but why we're in the position we are, because it's all related, to go and buy or borrow it. Capital Transport are the publishers. My apologies for not being currently able to compose my thoughts into a coherent or useful answer to this question. I was assaulted a few days ago by a drunken thug in broad daylight in the middle of a county town not so far from my home, who obviously felt it'd be amusing to have a go at someone limping by on a stick. Although thankfully not badly physically hurt (my reaction was more of anger) it shook me up a bit, I guess, and I've not completely regained my composure: however, I shall take a stab at it ere long. If this is where I think it may be (judging by posts on other fora), it does not really surprise me sadly. It’s one of a very few places in the UK where I’m very careful to keep my wits about me at all times. Hope recovery is quick. |
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Post by redbus on Sept 16, 2018 19:10:51 GMT
My apologies for not being currently able to compose my thoughts into a coherent or useful answer to this question. I was assaulted a few days ago by a drunken thug in broad daylight in the middle of a county town not so far from my home, who obviously felt it'd be amusing to have a go at someone limping by on a stick. Although thankfully not badly physically hurt (my reaction was more of anger) it shook me up a bit, I guess, and I've not completely regained my composure: however, I shall take a stab at it ere long. No apologies necessary. Sorry to hear what has happened to you - it's awful. Having been beaten up *many* years ago I know how difficult it can be to get your confidence and composure back. You're under no obligation from me to draft a response if don't wish to. Getting yourself sorted properly is far more important than a forum. Personally I am particularly looking forward to your reply - because it will mean you will be feeling better and re-gained your composure
In the meantime as others say, please don't apologise - we just all wish you a speedy recovery. Get better soon!!!!
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Post by overgroundcommuter on Sept 22, 2018 19:21:30 GMT
The 1988 changes were pretty significant. This saw the loss of Route 12 south of Dulwich Library, the 176 extended to Penge and the 78 to Forest Hill to replace lost bph by Route 12 and a direct link to central London between Dulwich and Penge.
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The Brixton area WAS affected, by the withdrawal of the 35 between Shoreditch and Chingford Hatch (Chingford on Sats) and a diversion via Hackney Road to Hackney Station. Mind you, it was a bit academic in that most journeys from Clapham Common went no further than Clapton anyway, if not Shoreditch or even Elephant. No more Hackney garage buses in Brixton, though!
might be others but can;t think at the moment. 
