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Post by riverside on Sept 7, 2018 11:41:00 GMT
As all of us are only too aware there are very large bus service changes proposed linked to the opening of Crossrail. 50 years ago today similar changes occurred linked to the opening of the new Victoria Line and the Transport and General Workers Union finally giving agreement to allow the operation of one man large capacity single deck buses. The Victoria Line was the first completely new underground line in nearly sixty years. Others lines had had extensions added in more recent decades. Agreement on the operation of one man double deckers was still to come.
Most of the changes affected E and NE London but also impacted on the Central Area. Some long established routes were radically altered.
The 5A, 5B and 5C all ceased to be, leaving just the plain 5. The 23 was withdrawn west of Aldgate losing its long established routing via Holborn and Oxford Street to Marylebone. The 35 was withdrawn north of Hackney so no longer reached distant Chingford. The 38 was also withdrawn between Walthamstow Garage and Chingford while simultaneously its sister route the 38A (Victoria to Loughton) was withdrawn altogether.
The RML operated 249 and its variants operating from Chingford to Victoria and Albert Docks was also withdrawn. The 123 that had operated between Ilford and Manor House became a major trunk route when diverted over part of the 275 to become an Ilford to Enfield route. At the same time the 269 Enfield to Tottenham Court Road(Post Office Tower) was withdrawn completely. The 275 converted from RM to MB as one of the new feeder services for Walthamstow Central and ran between the new station and Woodford Bridge. Similar new MB route 276 replaced the northern end of the 278, running from Walthamstow Central to Yardley Lane Estate. An MB had a single door at the front but did have 50 seats. The passengers who were to be served by the new Walthamstow circular service the W21 had to put up with the MBS, which was dual doored, with just 25 seats at the back, turnstiles that all passengers had to negotiate with room for 48 standing. The latter number reminds me that also on this day a new RT route the 48 was introduced to run between Whipps Cross and London Bridge to ease the pain of some of the cuts to the 35/38A, but at the same time the 257 London Bridge to Chinford was withdrawn altogether. It is this 48 that could fall to the executioner's axe as a result of present proposals! This was also the first day when all terminating routes in Chingford stood at the station rather than continue to the historic Royal Forest Hotel on the dge of Epping Forest.
Wood Green saw many changes on this day with the introduction of new flat fare routes W1-6. The 233 was withdrawn so top deck travel through Alexandra Park was no longer possible. The route was directly replaced by the W3. The 217, 217A and 231 no longer ran west of Turnpike Lane, being replaced by the new W2. The 29A and 29B were replaced by new RT operated routes the 298 and 298A.
In central London the Red Arrow 500 was finally given siblings with the introduction of new Red Arrow routes 501-507. This resulted in the withdrawal of the old 6A that ran between Waterloo and Hackney Wick( a few journeys ran on to Leyton Town Hall). The 76 lost its peak hour service that ran between Victoria and Liverpool Street. As well as the 76 no longer bifurcating to Liverpool Street it was withdrawn between Waterloo and Victoria apart from peak hour journeys to Westminster(Horse Guards Avenue). The new daily 503 Victoria to Waterloo via Westminster Bridge was the replacement. Cricklewood's long established route 60 that by 1968 ran between Waterloo and Colindale was totally withdrawn being replaced by the introduction of a combination of changes,the new 8B, new Red Arrow 505 and the truncation and diversion of the 245. The 46 that ran between Waterloo and Alperton became a shadow of its former self running between Victoria and Kensal Rise(Monday to Friday) with a peak hour extension to Neasden. Not surprisingly in October 1969 the route was withdrawn entirely. The old Horseferry Road routeing of the 46 was taken over by new Red Arrow 507 that ran between Victoria and Waterloo via Lambeth Bridge. The 70 was also withdrawn between Waterloo and Victoria, thus no longer serving Horseferry Road.
I am sure there are many other changes that happened on that day that I have forgotten to recall. It was the last day of RTLs in the East End. On the day I did travel over to East London to view the changes. In Hammersmith where I lived as a boy the changes were minimal. The main one was the introduction of the new one man operated 290 RF route running between Hammersmith(Met Station) and Richmond(Wakefield Road) from the old Twickenham Garage. As a result the 90C was withdrawn. The 290 served the Great Chertsey Road which was unusual in that the time of week when passenger numbers peaked was on a Sunday afternoon when many people travelled to Mortlake and North Sheen Cemeteries. As it was feared that the RFs on the 290 with their 39 seats might not be able to cope new Sunday RT operated route 90A running from Yeading to Richmond(Dee Road)was extended in the afternoon to Hammersmith(Met. Station). In less than a year the 90A was withdrawn and replaced by the reintroduction of a Sunday service on the 90B as far as Richmond as it was found that the extra capacity provided by the 90A was not needed.
As a boy I loved seeing in Hammersmith on a Sunday RTs from Barking Garage and RMs from Poplar Garage travelling all the way to distant Becontree Heath but this Sunday extension was withdrawn as part of the changes. Mortlake RMs never ran east of Aldgate in those days. The 9 was replaced in the East End by the introduction of a Sunday service on the 23. Although the 9 now only ran between Mortlake and Aldgate a small Poplar allocation remained and as in those days garage journeys still operated in service I could still see Poplar RMs running through Hammersmith heading for Blackwall Tunnel.
One other change introduced on the 7th of September 1968 was new Cricklewood operated MB route 268 that ran between Golders Green Station and Finchley Road(LT Station) which finally brought buses through the centre of Hampstead, previously a bus free zone. The new 268 was of particular interest to me as it was the first instance of a route number that I had previously known being reused. I had grown up with the old RM operated 268 running between Hanwell/Acton/Harlesden and Fulham(Edgerley Terrace)/Clapham Junction.
So huge changes are nothing new and in 1968 there was no public consultation as far as I knew. Basically posters advertising the changes just appeared at bus stops or on the sides of buses. The current uncertainty about the future of many routes triggered my memory of 50 years ago. Forgive my personal ramblings but maybe they may be of some interest if just for historical record. Maybe in 50 years time if this site is still functioning some of our younger members will be posting with their memories of the large scale changes of 2018/2019.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 7, 2018 12:08:58 GMT
Sundays in Hammersmith & Putney. Yes my favourite day of the week.
Why was the Hammersmith Met Station stand only used on Sundays ?
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Post by southlondonbus on Sept 7, 2018 14:06:45 GMT
Although they were not massive I will always remember 2002/03 as quite a scale for changes.
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Post by riverside on Sept 7, 2018 15:52:04 GMT
Sundays in Hammersmith & Putney. Yes my favourite day of the week. Why was the Hammersmith Met Station stand only used on Sundays ? The Hammersmith Met. Station stand was first used when the 71 was withdrawn between Hammersmith(Brook Green Hotel) and Richmond (Dee Road) in November 1967. It was replaced by introducing a Monday to Saturday service between Hammermith and Richmond on the previously Sunday only 90C. At Hammersmith instead of running down to the Brook Green Hotel stand the 90C now terminated at the Met. Station. The 90C continued to run through to Staines on Sundays. At the same time the Monday to Friday rush hour journeys on the 116 that previously terminated at Brook Green Hotel were also transferred to the Met. Station. So the Met. Station stand was used on all days of the week. What I think you are referring to is the 267 which in those days stood in the old Hammersmith Grove stand. On Sundays the bus inspectors on duty in Butterwick would get many passengers asking where the 267 for Hampton Court stopped and they would then have to direct them to Hammersmith Grove or King Street. One of the inspectors suggested that now that there was a stand at the Met. Station which at any one time usually had just one RF on the 290 parked, would it be possible to reroute the 267 on Sundays only from the Hammersmith Grove stand to the Met. Station so that in the Hampton Court direction the 267 would serve Butterwick. This was agreed to and so the needs of Hampton Court bound tourists were better met. The 267 stayed at the Hammersmith Grove stand on Monday to Saturdays as London Transport did not wish to subject the route to the delays that might otherwise be caused to the route by the traffic jams that could regularly occur on the Hammersmith gyratory system. |
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Post by Steve Macz on Sept 7, 2018 15:53:40 GMT
I would say the 2002/2003 changes were the best improvements to London transport in a while. It prepared London for the future. New routes like the 148. Extensions such as 436 and 453. I’m sure in that era from memory some buses gained night routes like 133, 65, 85, 57 and I’m sure a few more outer London routes had the same applied.
While i suppose now London buses are getting the biggest cuts in a long time.
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Post by busaholic on Sept 7, 2018 16:19:36 GMT
Sundays in Hammersmith & Putney. Yes my favourite day of the week. Why was the Hammersmith Met Station stand only used on Sundays ? The Hammersmith Met. Station stand was first used when the 71 was withdrawn between Hammersmith(Brook Green Hotel) and Richmond (Dee Road) in November 1967. It was replaced by introducing a Monday to Saturday service between Hammermith and Richmond on the previously Sunday only 90C. At Hammersmith instead of running down to the Brook Green Hotel stand the 90C now terminated at the Met. Station. The 90C continued to run through to Staines on Sundays. At the same time the Monday to Friday rush hour journeys on the 116 that previously terminated at Brook Green Hotel were also transferred to the Met. Station. So the Met. Station stand was used on all days of the week. What I think you are referring to is the 267 which in those days stood in the old Hammersmith Grove stand. On Sundays the bus inspectors on duty in Butterwick would get many passengers asking where the 267 for Hampton Court stopped and they would then have to direct them to Hammersmith Grove or King Street. One of the inspectors suggested that now that there was a stand at the Met. Station which at any one time usually had just one RF on the 290 parked, would it be possible to reroute the 267 on Sundays only from the Hammersmith Grove stand to the Met. Station so that in the Hampton Court direction the 267 would serve Butterwick. This was agreed to and so the needs of Hampton Court bound tourists were better met. The 267 stayed at the Hammersmith Grove stand on Monday to Saturdays as London Transport did not wish to subject the route to the delays that might otherwise be caused to the route by the traffic jams that could regularly occur on the Hammersmith gyratory system. I never knew that about the Sunday 267. Thank goodness common sense could sometimes overcome centralised conformity in those days, also giving a boost to the morale of that inspector. |
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frank
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Post by frank on Sept 7, 2018 16:25:56 GMT
Yes, countless frequency increases (evenings and sundays as well), routes going double deck, New night services too in 2002/2003 tied into the congestion charge. Great times.
Another year for change for which I can find very little info on the web (correct me if my dates are wrong) was 1993 for East London.
128, 330, 364, 366, 473 we’re born. 69, 147, 173 standardised, D2 lost. There were more changes, but these are the ones I can remember of the off the top my head. If anyone has any more info on these changes, it would be great to know?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 7, 2018 18:33:37 GMT
Sundays in Hammersmith & Putney. Yes my favourite day of the week. Why was the Hammersmith Met Station stand only used on Sundays ? The Hammersmith Met. Station stand was first used when the 71 was withdrawn between Hammersmith(Brook Green Hotel) and Richmond (Dee Road) in November 1967. It was replaced by introducing a Monday to Saturday service between Hammermith and Richmond on the previously Sunday only 90C. At Hammersmith instead of running down to the Brook Green Hotel stand the 90C now terminated at the Met. Station. The 90C continued to run through to Staines on Sundays. At the same time the Monday to Friday rush hour journeys on the 116 that previously terminated at Brook Green Hotel were also transferred to the Met. Station. So the Met. Station stand was used on all days of the week. What I think you are referring to is the 267 which in those days stood in the old Hammersmith Grove stand. On Sundays the bus inspectors on duty in Butterwick would get many passengers asking where the 267 for Hampton Court stopped and they would then have to direct them to Hammersmith Grove or King Street. One of the inspectors suggested that now that there was a stand at the Met. Station which at any one time usually had just one RF on the 290 parked, would it be possible to reroute the 267 on Sundays only from the Hammersmith Grove stand to the Met. Station so that in the Hampton Court direction the 267 would serve Butterwick. This was agreed to and so the needs of Hampton Court bound tourists were better met. The 267 stayed at the Hammersmith Grove stand on Monday to Saturdays as London Transport did not wish to subject the route to the delays that might otherwise be caused to the route by the traffic jams that could regularly occur on the Hammersmith gyratory system. Really interesting info thanks. How sad the 267 doesn’t reach Hampton Court anymore , ditto 290 to Hammersmith. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 7, 2018 20:09:15 GMT
Yes, countless frequency increases (evenings and sundays as well), routes going double deck, New night services too in 2002/2003 tied into the congestion charge. Great times. Another year for change for which I can find very little info on the web (correct me if my dates are wrong) was 1993 for East London. 128, 330, 364, 366, 473 we’re born. 69, 147, 173 standardised, D2 lost. There were more changes, but these are the ones I can remember of the off the top my head. If anyone has any more info on these changes, it would be great to know? I remember the 1993 changes really well - It was at the time I was really starting to get interested in buses.
278 Beckton - Limehouse Withdrawn 58 - Withdrawn from Canning Town but extended to East Ham
87 Extended to Beckton Savacentre
276 Diverted to East Beckton Asda
162 Wantead - Barking Garage Withdrawn
108 Withdrawn between Stratford and Wanstead
New Routes
300 Winsor Park - East Ham 325 Prince Regent - East Beckton
308 Wanstead - Hackney Waterden Road Bus Garage
309 Bethnal Green - Poplar Aberfeldy Estate
Was a great time  might be others but can;t think at the moment.
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Post by redexpress on Sept 7, 2018 20:40:35 GMT
Yes, countless frequency increases (evenings and sundays as well), routes going double deck, New night services too in 2002/2003 tied into the congestion charge. Great times. Another year for change for which I can find very little info on the web (correct me if my dates are wrong) was 1993 for East London. 128, 330, 364, 366, 473 we’re born. 69, 147, 173 standardised, D2 lost. There were more changes, but these are the ones I can remember of the off the top my head. If anyone has any more info on these changes, it would be great to know? Don't know if you're already aware but you could have a look at www.londonbuses.co.uk/ - always a good place to start for route histories. I don't think there's a summary of the entire 1993 scheme but the individual route histories should give you plenty of info. |
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Post by vjaska on Sept 7, 2018 21:06:40 GMT
Not a big set of changes but the 2005 changes to the 196, 322 & 355 were certainly massively beneficial, particularly for the 322 which automatically shed its “most unreliable route” tag. riverside did the opening of the Victoria Line produce any changes to routes in the Brixton area? |
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Post by busaholic on Sept 7, 2018 21:15:52 GMT
Not a big set of changes but the 2005 changes to the 196, 322 & 355 were certainly massively beneficial, particularly for the 322 which automatically shed its “most unreliable route” tag. riverside did the opening of the Victoria Line produce any changes to routes in the Brixton area? I'm about to add my tuppenceworth to riverside's masterly efforts, but just to say at this stage that the Vic opening on 1st September 1968 was initially only Walthamstow to Finsbury Park, and I don't believe any South London bus services were altered on the 7th. |
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Post by busaholic on Sept 7, 2018 22:33:04 GMT
As all of us are only too aware there are very large bus service changes proposed linked to the opening of Crossrail. 50 years ago today similar changes occurred linked to the opening of the new Victoria Line and the Transport and General Workers Union finally giving agreement to allow the operation of one man large capacity single deck buses. The Victoria Line was the first completely new underground line in nearly sixty years. Others lines had had extensions added in more recent decades. Agreement on the operation of one man double deckers was still to come. Most of the changes affected E and NE London but also impacted on the Central Area. Some long established routes were radically altered. The 5A, 5B and 5C all ceased to be, leaving just the plain 5. The 23 was withdrawn west of Aldgate losing its long established routing via Holborn and Oxford Street to Marylebone. The 35 was withdrawn north of Hackney so no longer reached distant Chingford. The 38 was also withdrawn between Walthamstow Garage and Chingford while simultaneously its sister route the 38A (Victoria to Loughton) was withdrawn altogether. The RML operated 249 and its variants operating from Chingford to Victoria and Albert Docks was also withdrawn. The 123 that had operated between Ilford and Manor House became a major trunk route when diverted over part of the 275 to become an Ilford to Enfield route. At the same time the 269 Enfield to Tottenham Court Road(Post Office Tower) was withdrawn completely. The 275 converted from RM to MB as one of the new feeder services for Walthamstow Central and ran between the new station and Woodford Bridge. Similar new MB route 276 replaced the northern end of the 278, running from Walthamstow Central to Yardley Lane Estate. An MB had a single door at the front but did have 50 seats. The passengers who were to be served by the new Walthamstow circular service the W21 had to put up with the MBS, which was dual doored, with just 25 seats at the back, turnstiles that all passengers had to negotiate with room for 48 standing. The latter number reminds me that also on this day a new RT route the 48 was introduced to run between Whipps Cross and London Bridge to ease the pain of some of the cuts to the 35/38A, but at the same time the 257 London Bridge to Chinford was withdrawn altogether. It is this 48 that could fall to the executioner's axe as a result of present proposals! This was also the first day when all terminating routes in Chingford stood at the station rather than continue to the historic Royal Forest Hotel on the dge of Epping Forest. Wood Green saw many changes on this day with the introduction of new flat fare routes W1-6. The 233 was withdrawn so top deck travel through Alexandra Park was no longer possible. The route was directly replaced by the W3. The 217, 217A and 231 no longer ran west of Turnpike Lane, being replaced by the new W2. The 29A and 29B were replaced by new RT operated routes the 298 and 298A. In central London the Red Arrow 500 was finally given siblings with the introduction of new Red Arrow routes 501-507. This resulted in the withdrawal of the old 6A that ran between Waterloo and Hackney Wick( a few journeys ran on to Leyton Town Hall). The 76 lost its peak hour service that ran between Victoria and Liverpool Street. As well as the 76 no longer bifurcating to Liverpool Street it was withdrawn between Waterloo and Victoria apart from peak hour journeys to Westminster(Horse Guards Avenue). The new daily 503 Victoria to Waterloo via Westminster Bridge was the replacement. Cricklewood's long established route 60 that by 1968 ran between Waterloo and Colindale was totally withdrawn being replaced by the introduction of a combination of changes,the new 8B, new Red Arrow 505 and the truncation and diversion of the 245. The 46 that ran between Waterloo and Alperton became a shadow of its former self running between Victoria and Kensal Rise(Monday to Friday) with a peak hour extension to Neasden. Not surprisingly in October 1969 the route was withdrawn entirely. The old Horseferry Road routeing of the 46 was taken over by new Red Arrow 507 that ran between Victoria and Waterloo via Lambeth Bridge. The 70 was also withdrawn between Waterloo and Victoria, thus no longer serving Horseferry Road. I am sure there are many other changes that happened on that day that I have forgotten to recall. It was the last day of RTLs in the East End. On the day I did travel over to East London to view the changes. In Hammersmith where I lived as a boy the changes were minimal. The main one was the introduction of the new one man operated 290 RF route running between Hammersmith(Met Station) and Richmond(Wakefield Road) from the old Twickenham Garage. As a result the 90C was withdrawn. The 290 served the Great Chertsey Road which was unusual in that the time of week when passenger numbers peaked was on a Sunday afternoon when many people travelled to Mortlake and North Sheen Cemeteries. As it was feared that the RFs on the 290 with their 39 seats might not be able to cope new Sunday RT operated route 90A running from Yeading to Richmond(Dee Road)was extended in the afternoon to Hammersmith(Met. Station). In less than a year the 90A was withdrawn and replaced by the reintroduction of a Sunday service on the 90B as far as Richmond as it was found that the extra capacity provided by the 90A was not needed. As a boy I loved seeing in Hammersmith on a Sunday RTs from Barking Garage and RMs from Poplar Garage travelling all the way to distant Becontree Heath but this Sunday extension was withdrawn as part of the changes. Mortlake RMs never ran east of Aldgate in those days. The 9 was replaced in the East End by the introduction of a Sunday service on the 23. Although the 9 now only ran between Mortlake and Aldgate a small Poplar allocation remained and as in those days garage journeys still operated in service I could still see Poplar RMs running through Hammersmith heading for Blackwall Tunnel. One other change introduced on the 7th of September 1968 was new Cricklewood operated MB route 268 that ran between Golders Green Station and Finchley Road(LT Station) which finally brought buses through the centre of Hampstead, previously a bus free zone. The new 268 was of particular interest to me as it was the first instance of a route number that I had previously known being reused. I had grown up with the old RM operated 268 running between Hanwell/Acton/Harlesden and Fulham(Edgerley Terrace)/Clapham Junction. So huge changes are nothing new and in 1968 there was no public consultation as far as I knew. Basically posters advertising the changes just appeared at bus stops or on the sides of buses. The current uncertainty about the future of many routes triggered my memory of 50 years ago. Forgive my personal ramblings but maybe they may be of some interest if just for historical record. Maybe in 50 years time if this site is still functioning some of our younger members will be posting with their memories of the large scale changes of 2018/2019. Thanks for your comprehensive post: I was going to make one myself about this date, but you've done a much better job than I'd have managed, besides which I've a few balance problems at the moment which are impinging on other activities. I believe you included almost all of the changes, excepting a very minor one in Potters Bar where a one-bus 284 service was introduced.
To me, 7th September 1968 represents the single most important day in bus terms in London Transport's history. Okay, I'll refine that to say since 1948, say, to the present day, so that's seventy years. My basis for saying that is that more changes to bus services, introduction of new routes and cancellation of others took place on this day than ever before, or since: couple that with the first widespread introduction of one-man operation and you have a real red letter day. It is one of a few dates that are forever etched on my memory - July 5th 1952 (the date the last trams were withdrawn), November 11th 1959 (the date that Routemasters entered service in a big way in place of trolleybuses at Poplar and West Ham) and April 22nd 1978 (bit of a more personal one, loads of changes in S.E. London with withdrawal of last RTs in the area and conversions to opo).
Just a few facts and figures from the day. The Wood Green scheme introduced 44 flat fare MBS buses and directly affected 16 double deck routes operating over 300 buses. The Walthamstow scheme brought 15 flat fare and 30 conventional omo Merlin buses, affecting 19 double deck routes and over 400 buses. It may not generally be known that contingency plans were in operation to operate all the flat fare routes, INCLUDING the Red Arrows, as conventional crew routes with double deckers, but in the event an agreement with the union about a month before the changes was a huge relief for LT, not least because the Merlins were all stockpiled ready for use!
My own memories of the day, a bit hazy now, were from the family home in Bromley by train to Victoria, a 503 or 507 to Waterloo, then probably a 504 to Aldwych and 13 to Finchley Road Station, where I picked up the new 268 to Golders Green, and was the sole passenger for the whole journey! Then a lovely ride on a RF on the 210 to Finsbury Park to travel on an automatic underground train (a first!) through to Walthamstow Central. I was a bit surprised that the platforms at WC were underground< somehow I imagined it would hit the surface here to connect with the BR Chingford trains, a line I've still never been on! Now, the only bit of the day where things weren't quite going to plan: the new bus station, although not a building site, was not ready and side roads opposite were being used for terminating buses. I remember LT's mobile canteen had been brought out of storage, perhaps for the last time. I can't remember quite what I did next, but I got to Turnpike Lane somehow, but not by the 123! (probably Vic Line back to FP, and either Picc or the 29). From there, a W1 to Edmonton Cambridge and return and then a W4 to Winchmore Hill. I believe i got an RM on the 123, but I'd had enough for the day by then and returned home.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 8, 2018 7:56:12 GMT
I remember the Kingston Bus changes from 1987 quite well. Preceding this were a series of industrial disputes, which were covered by Thames News, still available to watch on you tube.
Some routes were left alone, such as the 57, 85 and 213. However NB became sole operator of the 85 and 213.
The main thrust of it was the creation of the K routes , K1-3 which were won by Westlink who had already taken the 116,117 and 203 from AV.
The 152 was withdrawn from Kingston , being replaced by the K1. The 216 was withdrawn Tolworth to Kingston, the 281 lost it’s Chessington Industrial Estate MF peak service, both being replaced by the K2, and the 215 was withdrawn , being replaced by the K3.
The 131 went over to WY London Country South West, which became the sole route down the Cambridge Road corridor because the 285 was hacked back to Kingston.
From then, the 71 became the high frequency route to Chessington, as opposed to the 65 which was shortened to run Ealing to Kingston only.
Until then, I had been enjoying travelling on many nice new B and C reg Metrobuses that NB gained off peg. London Buses used this opportunity to vastly reduce these nice new buses at NB, replacing them with ex training fleet DMS buses and LS ‘s.
So apart from the new Metroriders Westling employed , and until WY employed brand new buses on the 131, the age profile of many routes dropped.
The K routes were popular. The Sunray Estate in Malden Manor gained its first bus service, and Berrylands tripled their bus frequency.
The once mighty 65 , which had a brief Sunday only HL RML allocation, was somewhat relegated .
Westlink drivers were paid vastly less.
Discontent was firmly set in at NB. Although their routes were being operated cheaper, it was by no means better. Bad press galore. Gaps in service. The 216 quickly ended up at Westlink.
There was some brave attempts at commercial work , on the Kingfisher route K10 and also commercially over the LCSW 406 ( a brief LS route 306 ran by NB between Kingston and Epsom failed) .
The end came when the 65 , 85 and 213 were lost under tender by London United , whose geographical bad luck gave them the poisoned chalice of NB.
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Post by snoggle on Sept 8, 2018 13:38:31 GMT
Are any forum members able to say what the public reaction to the 1968 changes was? Clearly they were enormous in scale and would have had far reaching consequences for a lot of people. Nowadays everyone can have their say via social media etc but that didn't exist 50 years ago. Did people complain / praise London Transport? Was there a reaction in the London daily newspapers? Did LT lose or gain passengers as a result of the changes? Unfortunately DfT stats on bus pass jnys only start in 1970 but London's bus patronage kept falling until 1983 when there was some improvement but things wobbled again in the mid 1990s.
I'd be surprised if people meekly accepted such huge changes but perhaps people just shrugged their shoulders and took to their cars instead if the buses were no longer any good?
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might be others but can;t think at the moment. 
