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Post by RandomBusesGirl on Nov 2, 2018 18:21:47 GMT
Let me explain what I mean here. I've had this discussion with friends several times, and now saw someone else mention this idea in another thread. Out of London, Arriva have Sapphire routes, Stagecoach got Gold, NXWM does Platinum etc. They are nominated to use dedicated, higher spec buses. Leather seats, WiFi access and USB sockets are all pretty much standard, and there is catchy, noticeable livery. London I can see the buses sport adapted paintwork that is still primarily red but with cosmetic additions, such as skirts and various squiggles etc. Now, in London pigs will fly sooner than anyone allows that to happen - but in theory, what routes do you think would be a good match? It would be popular, useful routes, though keep in mind the move would also be designed to attract more custom. So I would discount stuff like 29, 25 etc. Personally I've nominated (per operator): Stagecoach - 247 Arriva - 221 RATP LU - 85 EDIT: Metroline - 297 EDIT: 93 - Go-Ahead Thoughts? What would you propose?  |
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Post by 15002 on Nov 2, 2018 18:24:12 GMT
Like this thread already, using Arriva Sapphire everyday I can relate to this... anyways...
Stagecoach: 174
Arriva: 123
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Post by VWH1414 on Nov 2, 2018 18:29:27 GMT
I would have to agree with the 221, and I'd say maybe a route such as the 142 or 258 could be done maybe or just any longer routes.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 2, 2018 18:29:59 GMT
Definitely the X26 and X68
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Post by sid on Nov 2, 2018 18:51:51 GMT
The X26 as already mentioned is the obvious one and maybe the new 403 contract from the same garage. It goes through some of the posher parts of Croydon and loadings are well down on what they once were.
I think standards right across the fleet are in urgent need of some improvements though.
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Post by Eastlondoner62 on Nov 2, 2018 19:25:35 GMT
Let me explain what I mean here. I've had this discussion with friends several times, and now saw someone else mention this idea in another thread. Out of London, Arriva have Sapphire routes, Stagecoach have Gold, NXWM Platinum etc. They are nominated to use dedicated, higher spec buses. Leather seats, WiFi access and USB sockets are all pretty much standard, and there is catchy, noticeable livery. London I can see the buses sport adapted paintwork that is still primarily red but with cosmetic additions, such as skirts and various squiggles etc. Now, in London pigs will fly sooner than anyone allows that to happen - but in theory, what routes do you think would be a good match? It would be popular, useful routes, though keep in mind the move would also be designed to attract more custom. So I would discount stuff like 29, 25 etc. Personally I've nominated (per operator): Stagecoach - 247 Arriva - 221 RATP LU - 85 Thoughts? What would you propose? This could be taken different ways depending on how fares work. Should fares be the same then I think these higher Spec buses could actually be a good way of attracting custom to the routes that you mention. Although should fares be higher it probably needs to happen on routes where the demography is right so that people do actually pay the higher price to travel in more luxury instead of finding an alternative. I can only speak for East London here so I'll talk about the 247 suggestion. If the price was higher for these more higher spec routes by a considerable margin I wouldn't be surprised to see everyone just jump onto the 128 to get to Barkingside and onto the 296 or 66 to get to Marks Gate as the end of the day the primary reason for a lot of the individuals using the 247 is just to get from A to B. Although if the price wasn't that much higher, then it could quite well work and attract many people to the buses. I think the best routes to do this on regardless of price difference to average fares would be routes which are mostly in Central London, the 23 in its Liverpool St to Westbourne Park form would have been a great contender for this, the 274 is another one I feel could benefit and probably the 11 as well. |
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Post by abellion on Nov 2, 2018 19:33:56 GMT
Routes like 264 that have 24 hour service and generally have a few isolated spots all seem like decent candidates
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Post by RandomBusesGirl on Nov 2, 2018 20:50:11 GMT
Routes like 264 that have 24 hour service and generally have a few isolated spots all seem like decent candidates I agree here. 65 is another one that fits the bill having said that! Although I wonder if its occasional overcrowding/reliability problems wouldn't be made worse by the move so maybe not so fast... Having seen that, I've updated my first post to include 297 - I think that's a good linker route with some unique sections and some spare capacity still left (like others I've put forward, well borderline 85). Eastlondoner62 I don't think Sapphire/Gold routes out of London are more expensive than others, are they? I'd still do same fares or maybe like 10p more  X26 is the only I'd increase the fares further. Having mentioned that route - at least it does have USB out of all these things However they are very weak 5Vs, about every other port out of London is more powerful let alone my battery pack that I always need to carry these days |
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Post by abellion on Nov 2, 2018 21:07:52 GMT
If TfL make a public announcement of WiFi on buses routes like 25 will struggle to keep a somewhat workable connection, if you get what I am saying - all the overcrowding etc.
Sticking to routes that don’t really touch central London or provide any links would not be a lot of services so that doesn’t work
Similar to which routes need N services, this is really a debateable topic and really easy to get bias on, so there would be pressure on TfL if they tried to introduce these features
For now I feel like it’s definitely gonna be controversial, but we will see if TfL can somehow make it work
Outer-London really makes it work since it’s usually not busy, not sure if a city like London could really do this though
Otherwise I would stick to my 24hr somewhat isolated route suggestion
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Post by 15002 on Nov 2, 2018 21:08:21 GMT
Routes like 264 that have 24 hour service and generally have a few isolated spots all seem like decent candidates I agree here. 65 is another one that fits the bill having said that! Although I wonder if its occasional overcrowding/reliability problems wouldn't be made worse by the move so maybe not so fast... Having seen that, I've updated my first post to include 297 - I think that's a good linker route with some unique sections and some spare capacity still left (like others I've put forward, well borderline 85). Eastlondoner62 I don't think Sapphire/Gold routes out of London are more expensive than others, are they? I'd still do same fares or maybe like 10p more X26 is the only I'd increase the fares further. Having mentioned that route - at least it does have USB out of all these things However they are very weak 5Vs, about every other port out of London is more powerful let alone my battery pack that I always need to carry these days Well the day pass for Arriva Sapphire here in Leicester is £4.20, so a bit cheaper than the £4.50 in London actually. |
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Post by ronnie on Nov 2, 2018 21:10:13 GMT
Let me explain what I mean here. I've had this discussion with friends several times, and now saw someone else mention this idea in another thread. Out of London, Arriva have Sapphire routes, Stagecoach have Gold, NXWM Platinum etc. They are nominated to use dedicated, higher spec buses. Leather seats, WiFi access and USB sockets are all pretty much standard, and there is catchy, noticeable livery. London I can see the buses sport adapted paintwork that is still primarily red but with cosmetic additions, such as skirts and various squiggles etc. Now, in London pigs will fly sooner than anyone allows that to happen - but in theory, what routes do you think would be a good match? It would be popular, useful routes, though keep in mind the move would also be designed to attract more custom. So I would discount stuff like 29, 25 etc. Personally I've nominated (per operator): Stagecoach - 247 Arriva - 221 RATP LU - 85 Thoughts? What would you propose? This could be taken different ways depending on how fares work. Should fares be the same then I think these higher Spec buses could actually be a good way of attracting custom to the routes that you mention. Although should fares be higher it probably needs to happen on routes where the demography is right so that people do actually pay the higher price to travel in more luxury instead of finding an alternative. I can only speak for East London here so I'll talk about the 247 suggestion. If the price was higher for these more higher spec routes by a considerable margin I wouldn't be surprised to see everyone just jump onto the 128 to get to Barkingside and onto the 296 or 66 to get to Marks Gate as the end of the day the primary reason for a lot of the individuals using the 247 is just to get from A to B. Although if the price wasn't that much higher, then it could quite well work and attract many people to the buses. I think the best routes to do this on regardless of price difference to average fares would be routes which are mostly in Central London, the 23 in its Liverpool St to Westbourne Park form would have been a great contender for this, the 274 is another one I feel could benefit and probably the 11 as well. The 15 and 135 would be good candidates as well. 15 for the tourist bus feel, 135 for the city - Canary Wharf link I would probably also put a few routes from a key main line station. Eg - some from Waterloo (26, 139, 341, 507), some from London Bridge (17, 521, 43), 205 (for all the wonderful links), 453, 390, 607.... have left out existing busy routes like 149 as per the criteria Of course, if we could get the buses to move faster in the first place, would help more!!! |
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Post by busaholic on Nov 2, 2018 21:19:48 GMT
I think you'd need to provide interchange between such routes, rather than run them in isolation. So the 65, if chosen for instance, could be connected into by the 213, which in turn, etc etc. The 227 should come into play somewhere along the way,too. It's an interesting idea BUT... are TfL now actually seeking extra patronage of their buses, which in turn might lead to a need to increase pvr? I'd suggest the reverse i.e. they actively wish to discourage bus use where any alternative exists, whether that alternative is provided directly by them or not, so could include cycling or Shanks's pony. The 25 farrago is part of a policy, I suggest, though the realisation may not even have occurred to many of those making the decisions. Of course, if we were talking of radically increased fares on these 'premium' routes then a different mindset might apply, but I can't see this being politically acceptable under current control, apart from the operational difficulties.
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Post by abellion on Nov 2, 2018 21:39:38 GMT
I think you'd need to provide interchange between such routes, rather than run them in isolation. So the 65, if chosen for instance, could be connected into by the 213, which in turn, etc etc. The 227 should come into play somewhere along the way,too. It's an interesting idea BUT... are TfL now actually seeking extra patronage of their buses, which in turn might lead to a need to increase pvr? I'd suggest the reverse i.e. they actively wish to discourage bus use where any alternative exists, whether that alternative is provided directly by them or not, so could include cycling or Shanks's pony. The 25 farrago is part of a policy, I suggest, though the realisation may not even have occurred to many of those making the decisions. Of course, if we were talking of radically increased fares on these 'premium' routes then a different mindset might apply, but I can't see this being politically acceptable under current control, apart from the operational difficulties. Good idea I guess, my point was made just based on the fact that there could be a lack of general services in some quiter areas, but this would be a decent idea |
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Post by busaholic on Nov 2, 2018 21:46:19 GMT
I think you'd need to provide interchange between such routes, rather than run them in isolation. So the 65, if chosen for instance, could be connected into by the 213, which in turn, etc etc. The 227 should come into play somewhere along the way,too. It's an interesting idea BUT... are TfL now actually seeking extra patronage of their buses, which in turn might lead to a need to increase pvr? I'd suggest the reverse i.e. they actively wish to discourage bus use where any alternative exists, whether that alternative is provided directly by them or not, so could include cycling or Shanks's pony. The 25 farrago is part of a policy, I suggest, though the realisation may not even have occurred to many of those making the decisions. Of course, if we were talking of radically increased fares on these 'premium' routes then a different mindset might apply, but I can't see this being politically acceptable under current control, apart from the operational difficulties. Good idea I guess, my point was made just based on the fact that there could be a lack of general services in some quiter areas, but this would be a decent idea For a consultant's fee of somewhere south of 100 grand (plus VAT) I'd come up with a network of routes in all areas of London, complete with maps, suggestions on livery, vehicle type etc etc. On the other hand, you can get some of it on here for free.  |
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Post by snoggle on Nov 3, 2018 0:25:27 GMT
A few random suggestions.
Metroline - 107, 307, A10, 295, future X140, future 278
Arriva - 313, future 301
RATP - 203, 265, 465, 216
Stagecoach - 53 (yes I know it's busy but AIUI there are lot of longer distance pax where comfort etc would be beneficial), 422
GAL - 170, 358, 246, 119
I've deliberately gone for some longer single deck routes with faster sections. Plenty of good comparator routes in deregulation to show what could be done. I've also concentrated on the more "well to do" areas / boroughs where there is more "competition" with the private car. It still needs to be said, though, that faster journey times and greater reliability are likely to be more effective in pulling in more punters than just swish buses.
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