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Post by kmkcheng on Feb 17, 2019 20:18:15 GMT
Most of this just stems from what they happened to buy, e.g. Metroline started off with EW, W, AC and I think also HD, and that was when privatised in 1989, and has since been lucky in the fact it has had many operators sell up in the same area (MTL London - HT, PB & KC, Thorpes - PA and the now closed NW, Armchair - AH, First - G, WJ, UX, ON and the now closed HZ), similar situation for RATP in west London as the original London United when privatised gained a fair few garages in the area, backed up by the acquistion of Westlink in 1995, and the more recent acquistion of NCP in 2009. Again Stagecoach were lucky with this in the fact they got a lot of the East London garages and Arriva also with the fact they got all of AE, CT, SF, WN, EC, E, AR, WN and AD in a a fairly close area of NE London, and DX, DT and GY again in a similar area to each other. Some small corrections. NW was with Metroline near the start as it was also part of Harrow Buses along with HD. KC was never with MTL as Metroline only had KX around 2005 and moved into KC around 2010 |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 17, 2019 20:27:53 GMT
Without wishing to reopen the debate, we could say the same about Metroline dominance across North West London. Go-Ahead’s dominance is more so in South West London as South London has Abellio & Arriva whilst Stagecoach have faired better in South East London compared to East London. I think most of the main operators have a place of dominance: Metroline is NW London (Excluding Harrow/Wembley where RATP is actually more dominant in some areas, especially Harrow) Arriva is NE London (Tottenham/Wood Green etc) and also SE London GAL is South West London, and to some extent Central London SLN is East London RATP is West London Most of this just stems from what they happened to buy, e.g. Metroline started off with EW, W, AC and I think also HD, and that was when privatised in 1989, and has since been lucky in the fact it has had many operators sell up in the same area (MTL London - HT, PB & KC, Thorpes - PA and the now closed NW, Armchair - AH, First - G, WJ, UX, ON and the now closed HZ), similar situation for RATP in west London as the original London United when privatised gained a fair few garages in the area, backed up by the acquistion of Westlink in 1995, and the more recent acquistion of NCP in 2009. Again Stagecoach were lucky with this in the fact they got a lot of the East London garages and Arriva also with the fact they got all of AE, CT, SF, WN, EC, E, AR, WN and AD in a a fairly close area of NE London, and DX, DT and GY again in a similar area to each other. Go Ahead’s strong hold is South London. This is due to London General becoming in common ownership with London Central. Then Blue Traingle, Metrobus, Docklands Buses and First (NP). They only reach into Kingston courtesy of the 57,131,213 - all of which historically had original allocations from now LG garages. The night routes in Kingston were never actually Operated by NB. Original N14 (AF) and N77 (SW). The original London United were really given a crap hand being given NB which had been run down by London Buses. I have always thought AF should have been LU. |
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Post by VWH1414 on Feb 17, 2019 21:02:58 GMT
Most of this just stems from what they happened to buy, e.g. Metroline started off with EW, W, AC and I think also HD, and that was when privatised in 1989, and has since been lucky in the fact it has had many operators sell up in the same area (MTL London - HT, PB & KC, Thorpes - PA and the now closed NW, Armchair - AH, First - G, WJ, UX, ON and the now closed HZ), similar situation for RATP in west London as the original London United when privatised gained a fair few garages in the area, backed up by the acquistion of Westlink in 1995, and the more recent acquistion of NCP in 2009. Again Stagecoach were lucky with this in the fact they got a lot of the East London garages and Arriva also with the fact they got all of AE, CT, SF, WN, EC, E, AR, WN and AD in a a fairly close area of NE London, and DX, DT and GY again in a similar area to each other. Some small corrections. NW was with Metroline near the start as it was also part of Harrow Buses along with HD. KC was never with MTL as Metroline only had KX around 2005 and moved into KC around 2010 Ah thanks re HD & NW, I had a feeling HD may have been with someone else before ML. |
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Post by redexpress on Feb 18, 2019 5:43:02 GMT
Without wishing to reopen the debate, we could say the same about Metroline dominance across North West London. Go-Ahead’s dominance is more so in South West London as South London has Abellio & Arriva whilst Stagecoach have faired better in South East London compared to East London. I think most of the main operators have a place of dominance: Metroline is NW London (Excluding Harrow/Wembley where RATP is actually more dominant in some areas, especially Harrow) Arriva is NE London (Tottenham/Wood Green etc) and also SE London GAL is South West London, and to some extent Central London SLN is East London RATP is West London Most of this just stems from what they happened to buy, e.g. Metroline started off with EW, W, AC and I think also HD, and that was when privatised in 1989, and has since been lucky in the fact it has had many operators sell up in the same area (MTL London - HT, PB & KC, Thorpes - PA and the now closed NW, Armchair - AH, First - G, WJ, UX, ON and the now closed HZ), similar situation for RATP in west London as the original London United when privatised gained a fair few garages in the area, backed up by the acquistion of Westlink in 1995, and the more recent acquistion of NCP in 2009. Again Stagecoach were lucky with this in the fact they got a lot of the East London garages and Arriva also with the fact they got all of AE, CT, SF, WN, EC, E, AR, WN and AD in a a fairly close area of NE London, and DX, DT and GY again in a similar area to each other. I wouldn't say that luck had much to do with it. London Buses was divided into subsidiaries along geographical lines, so of course each subsidiary's garages would be concentrated in one area. And when looking to expand it's natural that each operator would look to buy out other operators in their own area (e.g. LU buying Westlink, Metroline buying Thorpes etc).
There were one or two exceptions where operators expanded well outside of their traditional operating area. Most notably in 1995 Centrewest set up an operation from scratch in Orpington - i.e. the other side of London from their main area. ComfortDelgro were also looking into buying Travel London before NedRailways stepped in - that would have given Metroline a very different geographical focus. Not sure if they would still have bought part of Centrewest if that had gone through.
One small point re: privatisation of Metroline - it was privatised in 1994. 1989 was when London Buses was split into subsidiaries, but the subsidiaries all remained in London Buses ownership until 1994 (or 1995 in the case of South London).
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