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Post by southlondonbus on Oct 16, 2020 13:58:25 GMT
The real concern seemed to hinge on the interchange between the 96 and 428 as there was no same stop change. I did think TFL would have maybe kept the 428 as far as Dartford and proceeded with everything else.
I know what you mean thou, normally they say due to this or that we are not proceeding.
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Post by southlondonbus on Oct 16, 2020 14:01:20 GMT
The thing is thou there is a chance Bluewater will never see the same custom again due to changes in shopping habits and TFL have now committed 3 DD routes to it.
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Post by vjaska on Oct 16, 2020 14:05:15 GMT
The thing is thou there is a chance Bluewater will never see the same custom again due to changes in shopping habits and TFL have now committed 3 DD routes to it. It all depends on what happens, still too early to say whilst all this is going on and in any case, TfL could always come back and review it at a later date and make changes.
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Post by southlondonbus on Oct 16, 2020 14:08:44 GMT
I think they probably will. The 13 was only ever on hold not cancelled. My guess would be that Arriva will use the Ts moving in from the 173 for the rest of the contract now that it needs more then 4 DDs.
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Post by greenboy on Oct 16, 2020 14:17:02 GMT
The thing is thou there is a chance Bluewater will never see the same custom again due to changes in shopping habits and TFL have now committed 3 DD routes to it. Very true and even before covid I'd say three routes were excessive although I do think the 428 should have at least continued to Dartford. As for the 492, if KCC are funding it all well and good but otherwise it's difficult to justify.
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Post by rift on Oct 16, 2020 15:20:52 GMT
The thing is thou there is a chance Bluewater will never see the same custom again due to changes in shopping habits and TFL have now committed 3 DD routes to it. I went there a few weeks ago and it seems to have at least 65% gone back to pre-virus footfall, and the buses were also noticeably almost at capacity too.
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Post by bus12451 on Oct 16, 2020 16:10:30 GMT
Results Updated 16 Oct 2020 Having considered all of the issues raised by respondents to the consultation, we have decided not to proceed with the withdrawal of the 428 between Bluewater and Crayford and not to proceed with the withdrawal of the 492 between Bluewater and Dartford at this time. We will keep both operations under review. However, we will proceed with the conversion of route 428 to double deck and the withdrawal of the existing school day only journeys. Our consultation report can be found below. Routes 428 and 492 consultation report (PDF 3.04MB) EDIT: Sorry if the link isn't working to the consultation report, I'm using my mobile phone Perfect, the 96 couldn't cope on its own. Visitor numbers at Bluewater have indeed picked up but they're right to not make changes until covid is over. Double decking the 428 is also a good move, even if it is the least popular of the 3 routes.
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Post by Eastlondoner62 on Oct 16, 2020 16:17:01 GMT
Results Updated 16 Oct 2020 Having considered all of the issues raised by respondents to the consultation, we have decided not to proceed with the withdrawal of the 428 between Bluewater and Crayford and not to proceed with the withdrawal of the 492 between Bluewater and Dartford at this time. We will keep both operations under review. However, we will proceed with the conversion of route 428 to double deck and the withdrawal of the existing school day only journeys. Our consultation report can be found below. Routes 428 and 492 consultation report (PDF 3.04MB) EDIT: Sorry if the link isn't working to the consultation report, I'm using my mobile phone Perfect, the 96 couldn't cope on its own. Visitor numbers at Bluewater have indeed picked up but they're right to not make changes until covid is over. Double decking the 428 is also a good move, even if it is the least popular of the 3 routes. I'd argue the 428 is the second most popular, the 492 has a half hour frequency which is likely to heat up bigger crowds.
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Post by DT 11 on Oct 16, 2020 17:09:07 GMT
I take it you’re a regular user of buses from Bluewater to Bexleyheath then? I live in the area and use the routes to and from Bluewater (and beyond into Medway). The 96 alone is not enough. I’m not sure if the 428 and 492 need to be decked at all times, but the 96 is absolutely rammed from Bluewater during shopping hours. Cutting off local communities from employment opportunities and hospital appointments clearly didn’t go down well in the area. I have to say, I’m really surprised that the 492 via Stone has survived, not because of capacity or cash issues but because this is a stopping service throughout the borough of Dartford. Did Kent County Council stump up some cash? Indeed, many times I've been to Bluewater myself despite not being local and witnessed rammed 96's arriving & leaving and have witnessed busy 492's leaving including one I actually boarded whilst doing my end to end challenge so I'm very happy for locals that the 492 is staying in it's current form. The 428 doesn't need to be decked as you say but I do think it's probably better having routes double decked providing there is no physical or less obvious restriction as taking in fuel and capacity, it's probably cheaper to operate in the long run? The 428 does need double deckers has been the case for a long time now. Used by many commuters and School Children. The AM & PM School Journeys between Erith & Crayford will no longer be needed.
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Post by vjaska on Oct 16, 2020 17:11:35 GMT
I think they probably will. The 13 was only ever on hold not cancelled. My guess would be that Arriva will use the Ts moving in from the 173 for the rest of the contract now that it needs more then 4 DDs. I believe it is indeed those T's you mention but not 100% sure on that, will wait for official confirmation from those in the know.
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Post by DT 11 on Oct 16, 2020 17:12:44 GMT
Perfect, the 96 couldn't cope on its own. Visitor numbers at Bluewater have indeed picked up but they're right to not make changes until covid is over. Double decking the 428 is also a good move, even if it is the least popular of the 3 routes. I'd argue the 428 is the second most popular, the 492 has a half hour frequency which is likely to heat up bigger crowds. The 428 is busier than the 492. The 492 doesn’t even need double deckers other than at School times. The busier section of the 492 is between Bluewater and Dartford because it’s cheaper than local buses, the rest of the route is quiet.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 16, 2020 19:40:01 GMT
I'd argue the 428 is the second most popular, the 492 has a half hour frequency which is likely to heat up bigger crowds. The 428 is busier than the 492. The 492 doesn’t even need double deckers other than at School times. The busier section of the 492 is between Bluewater and Dartford because it’s cheaper than local buses, the rest of the route is quiet. I used to get the last 492 back from Sidcup all the way to Greenhithe. Great rides, and I think the most passengers I ever counted was 5.
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Post by vjaska on Oct 16, 2020 22:46:17 GMT
The 428 is busier than the 492. The 492 doesn’t even need double deckers other than at School times. The busier section of the 492 is between Bluewater and Dartford because it’s cheaper than local buses, the rest of the route is quiet. I used to get the last 492 back from Sidcup all the way to Greenhithe. Great rides, and I think the most passengers I ever counted was 5. I've had empty rides like that before on the 492 but I also have seen many heavy loaded journeys and these were not during the peaks I might add
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Post by twobellstogo on Oct 17, 2020 9:03:33 GMT
I used to get the last 492 back from Sidcup all the way to Greenhithe. Great rides, and I think the most passengers I ever counted was 5. I've had empty rides like that before on the 492 but I also have seen many heavy loaded journeys and these were not during the peaks I might add Bexley-Bluewater is the stronger part of the 492 in my experience, Bexley-Sidcup has less custom, but is a lifeline to the areas it serves (notably North Cray, which is not as affluent as it may seem). Overall pleasantly surprised the 428 and 492 are staying as they are.
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Post by greenboy on Oct 20, 2020 4:59:44 GMT
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