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Post by evergreenadam on Aug 31, 2019 20:45:07 GMT
The SD 218 will be carnege on Askew Road. There's so much demand along there, and I don't think a single decker is sufficient to meet that demand. Of course there will be the DD 306 which will help take some of the pressure but if the 218 is the first to the stop it'll be overwhelmed. Not sending the 306 to Acton High Street was a huge mistake, because there is popular demand for the Acton-Hammersmith link, Acton Vale is a pathetic terminus. Agreed. The DD replacement route needs to run Acton High Street to Hammersmith. Acton Vale is the middle of nowhere and buses leaving the stand will not serve the busy 207/272/607 bus stop. For passengers travelling towards Hammersmith there will be two bus routes from two separate stops. |
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Post by rif153 on Aug 31, 2019 20:52:29 GMT
The SD 218 will be carnege on Askew Road. There's so much demand along there, and I don't think a single decker is sufficient to meet that demand. Of course there will be the DD 306 which will help take some of the pressure but if the 218 is the first to the stop it'll be overwhelmed. Not sending the 306 to Acton High Street was a huge mistake, because there is popular demand for the Acton-Hammersmith link, Acton Vale is a pathetic terminus. Agreed. The DD replacement route needs to run Acton High Street to Hammersmith. Acton Vale is the middle of nowhere and buses leaving the stand will not serve the busy 207/272/607 bus stop. For passengers travelling towards Hammersmith there will be two bus routes from two separate stops. It would be nice if the 218 were routed eastbound via Bromyard Avenue, so you could have a common stop for both routes at the 306's stand. The Acton Vale stand has space for two buses, so if the 306 is to have two buses on stand at any one time, then the prospect of a common stop for both routes there grows even more slender. It is frustrating that the old 70 stand in Acton remains, albeit encroached on by parked cars, as it would've made a perfect terminus for the 306. |
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Post by evergreenadam on Aug 31, 2019 20:55:44 GMT
Yes I agree the change is needed but can't help but think with some tweaks the 218 couldn't have just been an 8-10 min service and in essence simply a localisation replacing part of the 266 then paralleling few a few stops to the next logical terminus like with the 363, 430 and 432 etc. Could even have done a Hammermsigh yo Willsden 218. The 306 is going to stop short of where most want to go meaning loading along Askew Road towards Acton Vale are going to be very light. Also the 391 does seem to be able to cope between Fulham and Hammersmith with SDs and maintains a cross Hammersmith link lost by the 27. A high frequency DD North Acton to Hammersmith route, overlapping with the 266 along Horn Lane is all that is really required. Two replacement routes of lower frequency means single deckers on route 218 covering the full distance getting full up while the DD 306 route which stops short of any traffic objective will have empty seats. It will also be difficult to interwork the two routes when they have different frequencies. The average wait time for a bus on Askew Road might go up slightly if buses on both routes arrive close together. The locals in West Acton don’t even want the 218, they would prefer to keep the 440 and the direct link to Asda and Central Middlesex Hospital. |
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Post by rif153 on Aug 31, 2019 20:59:13 GMT
Yes I agree the change is needed but can't help but think with some tweaks the 218 couldn't have just been an 8-10 min service and in essence simply a localisation replacing part of the 266 then paralleling few a few stops to the next logical terminus like with the 363, 430 and 432 etc. Could even have done a Hammermsigh yo Willsden 218. The 306 is going to stop short of where most want to go meaning loading along Askew Road towards Acton Vale are going to be very light. Also the 391 does seem to be able to cope between Fulham and Hammersmith with SDs and maintains a cross Hammersmith link lost by the 27. A high frequency DD North Acton to Hammersmith route, overlapping with the 266 along Horn Lane is all that is really required. Two replacement routes of lower frequency means single deckers on route 218 covering the full distance getting full up while the DD 306 route which stops short of any traffic objective will have empty seats. It will also be difficult to interwork the two routes when they have different frequencies. The average wait time for a bus on Askew Road might go up slightly if buses on both routes arrive close together. The locals in West Acton don’t even want the 218, they would prefer to keep the 440 and the direct link to Asda and Central Middlesex Hospital. I think the 218 via Horn Lane would've been the better candidate to send to Wembley. It would create a Hammersmith-Wembley link, whilst still linking Wembley to Crossrail at Acton Mainline, and Acton. At the same time, I would've cut the 440 back at the northern end to Central Middlesex Hospital, or even extended it to Brent Park. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 31, 2019 22:08:30 GMT
Surely it’s going to cost more money ? The 391 gets slaughtered in the process as a result between Hammersmith and Richmond. It’s one of those ideas, ironically which created the 391 in the first place. I don’t know how TfL come up with them. Nobody wants to go to Acton Vale from Fulham. Plenty of people want to go from Willesden to Hammersmith though. |
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Post by busaholic on Aug 31, 2019 22:31:40 GMT
Surely it’s going to cost more money ? The 391 gets slaughtered in the process as a result between Hammersmith and Richmond. It’s one of those ideas, ironically which created the 391 in the first place. I don’t know how TfL come up with them. Nobody wants to go to Acton Vale from Fulham. Plenty of people want to go from Willesden to Hammersmith though. Willesden to Hammersmith had the 660 and 666 trolleybuses, which became the 260 and 266 bus routes, though the 260 was always the poor relation in my limited experience. It didn't used to matter so much if a bus got cut back to Bromyard Avenue or even Willesden Junction, because another one would be along soon. Now?... |
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Post by Green Kitten on Aug 31, 2019 23:08:49 GMT
I will stand firmly behind the 218 idea, making it a DD route and sending it to Wembley! rif153 great minds think alike. Is the plan not to send the 306 to Acton High Street (using the 70’s old stand, if it still exists?) The route terminating at Acton Vale is a missed opportunity.  I do agree with splitting the 266 as it’s a very hard route to run (TT controllers called it the devil’s route). It’s been in the pipeline for a while, the 218 has been floating around for years (a previous plan was 218 + a new route 239 Acton Vale to Roehampton, of course Hammersmith Bridge effed that up). One worry I also have with the 218/306, will they pass through the same bus station? |
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Post by Eastlondoner62 on Aug 31, 2019 23:10:59 GMT
I will stand firmly behind my 218 idea, making it a DD route and sending it to Wembley! Is the plan not to send the 306 to Acton High Street (using the 70’s old stand, if it still exists?) The route terminating at Acton Vale is à missed opportunity. Nope, sadly the plan is Acton Vale. It's not going to work out too well as all those 266 passengers aren't going to get off at Acton, get the 207 for a few stops then get the 306. They'll all just swarm the single decker 218. |
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Post by vjaska on Aug 31, 2019 23:58:11 GMT
I will stand firmly behind the 218 idea, making it a DD route and sending it to Wembley! rif153 great minds think alike. Is the plan not to send the 306 to Acton High Street (using the 70’s old stand, if it still exists?) The route terminating at Acton Vale is a missed opportunity. I do agree with splitting the 266 as it’s a very hard route to run (TT controllers called it the devil’s route). It’s been in the pipeline for a while, the 218 has been floating around for years (a previous plan was 218 + a new route 239 Acton Vale to Roehampton, of course Hammersmith Bridge effed that up). One worry I also have with the 218/306, will they pass through the same bus station? A Google Maps 2019 view shows there is two stands on Horn Lane either side of Rectory Road as well as bus stop markings on the opposite side of the road all be it without any flagpole there and invaded by cars - I believe many on here including myself suggested thats where the 306 should terminate considering how much sense it would make to do so  |
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Post by evergreenadam on Sept 1, 2019 3:01:31 GMT
A high frequency DD North Acton to Hammersmith route, overlapping with the 266 along Horn Lane is all that is really required. Two replacement routes of lower frequency means single deckers on route 218 covering the full distance getting full up while the DD 306 route which stops short of any traffic objective will have empty seats. It will also be difficult to interwork the two routes when they have different frequencies. The average wait time for a bus on Askew Road might go up slightly if buses on both routes arrive close together. The locals in West Acton don’t even want the 218, they would prefer to keep the 440 and the direct link to Asda and Central Middlesex Hospital. I think the 218 via Horn Lane would've been the better candidate to send to Wembley. It would create a Hammersmith-Wembley link, whilst still linking Wembley to Crossrail at Acton Mainline, and Acton. At the same time, I would've cut the 440 back at the northern end to Central Middlesex Hospital, or even extended it to Brent Park. An Acton to Ikea route would be popular. |
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Post by rif153 on Sept 1, 2019 7:39:46 GMT
I will stand firmly behind the 218 idea, making it a DD route and sending it to Wembley! rif153 great minds think alike. Is the plan not to send the 306 to Acton High Street (using the 70’s old stand, if it still exists?) The route terminating at Acton Vale is a missed opportunity. I do agree with splitting the 266 as it’s a very hard route to run (TT controllers called it the devil’s route). It’s been in the pipeline for a while, the 218 has been floating around for years (a previous plan was 218 + a new route 239 Acton Vale to Roehampton, of course Hammersmith Bridge effed that up). One worry I also have with the 218/306, will they pass through the same bus station? Another example of you and I thinking alike lol! I worry that at Hammersmith the 218 will stand at the Lower Bus Station, whilst the westbound 306 will serve the upper bus station. Kind of defeats the point of having a bus bus station... |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 1, 2019 14:27:41 GMT
I think the 218 is a poisoned chalice. One delay, and a huge gap and angry passengers in Hammersmith.
Remember the 218 and 306 will be separated apparently so to provide a 6 min service. So gives TT a possible advantage. Although I would prefer RATP or Metroline or Abellio.
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Post by george on Sept 1, 2019 15:07:33 GMT
I think the 218 is a poisoned chalice. One delay, and a huge gap and angry passengers in Hammersmith. Remember the 218 and 306 will be separated apparently so to provide a 6 min service. So gives TT a possible advantage. Although I would prefer RATP or Metroline or Abellio. I really hope it's not Abellio absolutely nothing against them but they seem to be winning a lot in West London lately. |
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Post by MetrolineGA1511 on Sept 7, 2019 5:52:05 GMT
I think a suggestion was made on this forum to instead cut the 266 at the northern end (maybe to around Willesden?), with the 460 instead rerouted via Brent Cross, also in place of the proposed 112 extension. Though I think the 13 may struggle between Finchley & Golders Green without the 460. I have seen rumours about route 245 being extended to North Finchley. Maybe this is why. Alternatively, they could extend route 134 from North Finchley to Golders Green.  |
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Post by abellion on Sept 7, 2019 9:26:53 GMT
I think a suggestion was made on this forum to instead cut the 266 at the northern end (maybe to around Willesden?), with the 460 instead rerouted via Brent Cross, also in place of the proposed 112 extension. Though I think the 13 may struggle between Finchley & Golders Green without the 460. I have seen rumours about route 245 being extended to North Finchley. Maybe this is why. Alternatively, they could extend route 134 from North Finchley to Golders Green. The 134 just got cut in the CLBCs so TfL won't be so quick on extending it anywhere. The issue is that 13 has to cope with the Central London so I think the 245 is a good option. |
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