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Post by Deleted on Jan 21, 2020 22:40:03 GMT
Was thinking earlier about the below as alteratives but the changes all have issues so maybe not! 325 left as it now. 474 via Keir Hardie as proposed then Custom House , Prince Regent Station then via proposed 325 extension then normal route towards Beckton - Downside this cuts the City Airport link 101 extended back to North Woolwich covering the withdrawn section of the 474 from Beckton and 473 covers the Prince Regent Woolwich section. 262 curtailed at Gallions Reach. Something tells me the 304 may now be scrapped if the South Newham changes go ahead with the 101 extended to Custom House - it just allows TfL to save further money and allows the 104 to sit at Beckton as planned. From the wording on the consultation re the 241 and 474 it did seem as all the east London Crossrail changes have been approved but just delayed until the lines open but could be wrong. But yes the 101 would serve the same route and further to Wanstead. |
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Post by danorak on Jan 22, 2020 20:16:25 GMT
Only been to Gallions Reach once, about a year ago on a Saturday. It seemed pretty busy then as did the 366 I was on, which seemed to meander aimlessly around the area. I am surprised that such a brutal reduction, which unlike similar proposals seems to contain no slack, has been proposed.
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Post by enviroPB on Jan 25, 2020 23:09:53 GMT
There's no other way to describe this consultation than simply a poo show. I am rather aware of most of these changes as the late, great Snoggle created the Bus Network Development Papers thread some years ago which had South Newham proposals devised in 2016. Unlike like the schemes in Colindale or Tower Hamlets for example, TfL keep changing how they want the bus network to look in the Beckton & Royal Docks area, and I suspect I know why. So, before Crossrail was a thing, it was proposed that the 325 was decked and sent to Royal Albert Dock or the 101 rerouted at East Ham Manor Way and sent there via a new bus-only bridge. Considering there's a half-built bridge in Beckton already, it's probably not best to chuck more money on half-arsed infrastructure projects. There was a proposal to send the 101 via Royal Albert Way instead to the new ABP development in Royal Albert Docks, much more cost effective. But Crossrail came and the 104 was to be sent to Beckton, so it was also considered (and favoured) to go to Royal Albert Docks instead of the 101. Now to this rubbish today and it seems they've ditched the idea of the the bus only bridge! They likely didn't secure funding for it, which is a shame as their research suggests that a route serving RAD from the east would generate more bus passenger journeys. But obviously the cheaper 325 option was chosen.  I know in my heart of hearts TfL keep flip flopping on South Newham because of the Custom House stand (or lack of) situation. I believe Newham council owns the proposed land on which TfL hopes to stand the 304 and 241, but for whatever reason they won't give the land/approve work to construct the stand. Newham council are also mostly critical of the Crossrail related changes in their borough as they're not in favour of broken links this new Custom House interchange will create, so I sense a standoff from both parties here. The mere fact TfL are sending the 241 to Royal Wharf instead of Prince Regent is a goodwill gesture on their part, the 330 can easily run into the Wharf and out again without the extra 1 or 2 increase in PVR. Oh, and I wonder if the peak time for routes serving out-of-town shopping parks is the same as peak time for other conventional routes, cause I don't need to mention seeing 101 and 262 buses loaded very close to seating capacity at 10:30 on a Sunday morning heading to Gallions Reach. Honestly the 101 withdrawal on its own is a rational proposal and would be accepted if it needed to serve another development, but to have it be one of six routes stand at Beckton bus station is absolutely absurd. Six routes at the bus station but the 366 trundling along alone in east Beckton is considered sufficient by TfL?! Spent more than 3 hours trying to compose this post, and I am still pretty lost for words really. So disappointed with this tripe. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 26, 2020 14:09:50 GMT
There's no other way to describe this consultation than simply a sh*t show. I am rather aware of most of these changes as the late, great Snoggle created the Bus Network Development Papers thread some years ago which had South Newham proposals devised in 2016. Unlike like the schemes in Colindale or Tower Hamlets for example, TfL keep changing how they want the bus network to look in the Beckton & Royal Docks area, and I suspect I know why. So, before Crossrail was a thing, it was proposed that the 325 was decked and sent to Royal Albert Dock or the 101 rerouted at East Ham Manor Way and sent there via a new bus-only bridge. Considering there's a half-built bridge in Beckton already, it's probably not best to chuck more money on half-arsed infrastructure projects. There was a proposal to send the 101 via Royal Albert Way instead to the new ABP development in Royal Albert Docks, much more cost effective. But Crossrail came and the 104 was to be sent to Beckton, so it was also considered (and favoured) to go to Royal Albert Docks instead of the 101. Now to this rubbish today and it seems they've ditched the idea of the the bus only bridge! They likely didn't secure funding for it, which is a shame as their research suggests that a route serving RAD from the east would generate more bus passenger journeys. But obviously the cheaper 325 option was chosen. I know in my heart of hearts TfL keep flip flopping on South Newham because of the Custom House stand (or lack of) situation. I believe Newham council owns the proposed land on which TfL hopes to stand the 304 and 241, but for whatever reason they won't give the land/approve work to construct the stand. Newham council are also mostly critical of the Crossrail related changes in their borough as they're not in favour of broken links this new Custom House interchange will create, so I sense a standoff from both parties here. The mere fact TfL are sending the 241 to Royal Wharf instead of Prince Regent is a goodwill gesture on their part, the 330 can easily run into the Wharf and out again without the extra 1 or 2 increase in PVR. Oh, and I wonder if the peak time for routes serving out-of-town shopping parks is the same as peak time for other conventional routes, cause I don't need to mention seeing 101 and 262 buses loaded very close to seating capacity at 10:30 on a Sunday morning heading to Gallions Reach. Honestly the 101 withdrawal on its own is a rational proposal and would be accepted if it needed to serve another development, but to have it be one of six routes stand at Beckton bus station is absolutely absurd. Six routes at the bus station but the 366 trundling along alone in east Beckton is considered sufficient by TfL?! Spent more than 3 hours trying to compose this post, and I am still pretty lost for words really. So disappointed with this tripe. Just went passed the proposed stand at Custom House which has been cleared and most of the Crossrail hoarding removed so work could be starting soon. Also just arrived at Gallions Reach just seen 20 plus passengers board at 262 to Stratford and one arrive for East Beckton full downstairs. There is about 20 or so passengers waiting for a 101 or 366. |
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Post by enviroPB on Jan 26, 2020 14:55:45 GMT
There's no other way to describe this consultation than simply a sh*t show. I am rather aware of most of these changes as the late, great Snoggle created the Bus Network Development Papers thread some years ago which had South Newham proposals devised in 2016. Unlike like the schemes in Colindale or Tower Hamlets for example, TfL keep changing how they want the bus network to look in the Beckton & Royal Docks area, and I suspect I know why. So, before Crossrail was a thing, it was proposed that the 325 was decked and sent to Royal Albert Dock or the 101 rerouted at East Ham Manor Way and sent there via a new bus-only bridge. Considering there's a half-built bridge in Beckton already, it's probably not best to chuck more money on half-arsed infrastructure projects. There was a proposal to send the 101 via Royal Albert Way instead to the new ABP development in Royal Albert Docks, much more cost effective. But Crossrail came and the 104 was to be sent to Beckton, so it was also considered (and favoured) to go to Royal Albert Docks instead of the 101. Now to this rubbish today and it seems they've ditched the idea of the the bus only bridge! They likely didn't secure funding for it, which is a shame as their research suggests that a route serving RAD from the east would generate more bus passenger journeys. But obviously the cheaper 325 option was chosen. I know in my heart of hearts TfL keep flip flopping on South Newham because of the Custom House stand (or lack of) situation. I believe Newham council owns the proposed land on which TfL hopes to stand the 304 and 241, but for whatever reason they won't give the land/approve work to construct the stand. Newham council are also mostly critical of the Crossrail related changes in their borough as they're not in favour of broken links this new Custom House interchange will create, so I sense a standoff from both parties here. The mere fact TfL are sending the 241 to Royal Wharf instead of Prince Regent is a goodwill gesture on their part, the 330 can easily run into the Wharf and out again without the extra 1 or 2 increase in PVR. Oh, and I wonder if the peak time for routes serving out-of-town shopping parks is the same as peak time for other conventional routes, cause I don't need to mention seeing 101 and 262 buses loaded very close to seating capacity at 10:30 on a Sunday morning heading to Gallions Reach. Honestly the 101 withdrawal on its own is a rational proposal and would be accepted if it needed to serve another development, but to have it be one of six routes stand at Beckton bus station is absolutely absurd. Six routes at the bus station but the 366 trundling along alone in east Beckton is considered sufficient by TfL?! Spent more than 3 hours trying to compose this post, and I am still pretty lost for words really. So disappointed with this tripe. Just went passed the proposed stand at Custom House which has been cleared and most of the Crossrail hoarding removed so work could be starting soon. Also just arrived at Gallions Reach just seen 20 plus passengers board at 262 to Stratford and one arrive for East Beckton full downstairs. There is about 20 or so passengers waiting for a 101 or 366. TfL were very quick to erect the Pontoon Dock stand last year when they were hopeful of the Lizzie line starting in full in May August December, albeit it is much easier to construct the 330's stand than the one at Custom House. I just have a funny feeling they would have plopped the stand there already when they had workers doing up the new entrance at Custom House; why have two bouts of construction [costs] incurred when everything can be done in one go? It's somewhat rare that everyone is in unanimous agreement that if savings are to be made in Gallions Reach, then surely scale back the 101 and probably increase the the 262's PVR to 7-8bph during the week and definitely 5bph on Sundays to mitigate excess wait times on the 366. I live in Barking and catching the 366 there to Beckton is barely punctual to put it lightly. Leaving the 366 to plunder the retail parks of Beckton alone will lead to a shattering of its already fragile reliability, especially during weekends. Assuming local people cotton onto this consultation (which I suspect they will through the Newham Recorder & Newham Mag*) then Transport for London will have a fight on their hands to keep the 262 the way it is. *The Newham Magazine is delivered free to residents every fortnight month and has quite a wide array of local issues discussed. There's no way editors won't stick this steaming heap of a consultation in for all Newham residents to see. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 26, 2020 16:37:52 GMT
Just went passed the proposed stand at Custom House which has been cleared and most of the Crossrail hoarding removed so work could be starting soon. Also just arrived at Gallions Reach just seen 20 plus passengers board at 262 to Stratford and one arrive for East Beckton full downstairs. There is about 20 or so passengers waiting for a 101 or 366. TfL were very quick to erect the Pontoon Dock stand last year when they were hopeful of the Lizzie line starting in full in May August December, albeit it is much easier to construct the 330's stand than the one at Custom House. I just have a funny feeling they would have plopped the stand there already when they had workers doing up the new entrance at Custom House; why have two bouts of construction [costs] incurred when everything can be done in one go? It's somewhat rare that everyone is in unanimous agreement that if savings are to be made in Gallions Reach, then surely scale back the 101 and probably increase the the 262's PVR to 7-8bph during the week and definitely 5bph on Sundays to mitigate excess wait times on the 366. I live in Barking and catching the 366 there to Beckton is barely punctual to put it lightly. Leaving the 366 to plunder the retail parks of Beckton alone will lead to a shattering of its already fragile reliability, especially during weekends. Assuming local people cotton onto this consultation (which I suspect they will through the Newham Recorder & Newham Mag*) then Transport for London will have a fight on their hands to keep the 262 the way it is. *The Newham Magazine is delivered free to residents every fortnight month and has quite a wide array of local issues discussed. There's no way editors won't stick this steaming heap of a consultation in for all Newham residents to see. The space was being used by Crossrail until last week so would have been difficult to construct anything until works finished. Custom House Station is very close if not finished now. |
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Post by Eastlondoner62 on Jan 27, 2020 22:18:17 GMT
Something that I just had a thought over. Once cut the 262 will only be a 3 mile route which to me is just asking for a future withdrawal if TfL's financial states do not improve anytime soon. Seeing as TfL are insistent on only leaving one route at Gallions Reach I wonder if the earlier suggestion of the 366 being split into two overlapping routes could happen, but just as an extension of the 262 to Barking and a cut of the 366 to Barking, London Road. It is going to break a few links from the Ilford area but I don't think anyone actually rides the 366 from north of Ilford to Beckton due to the indirect route it takes - rather opting to change for an EL1 at Ilford and picking another 366 at Barking, you can skip a good three buses this way. The obvious issue would be stand space but maybe this could be mitigated by sending the 238 to stand at Fair Cross? Might not be the best idea but it must surely be better than TfL's idea  |
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Post by DE20106 on Jan 28, 2020 18:58:23 GMT
Something that I just had a thought over. Once cut the 262 will only be a 3 mile route which to me is just asking for a future withdrawal if TfL's financial states do not improve anytime soon. Seeing as TfL are insistent on only leaving one route at Gallions Reach I wonder if the earlier suggestion of the 366 being split into two overlapping routes could happen, but just as an extension of the 262 to Barking and a cut of the 366 to Barking, London Road. It is going to break a few links from the Ilford area but I don't think anyone actually rides the 366 from north of Ilford to Beckton due to the indirect route it takes - rather opting to change for an EL1 at Ilford and picking another 366 at Barking, you can skip a good three buses this way. The obvious issue would be stand space but maybe this could be mitigated by sending the 238 to stand at Fair Cross? Might not be the best idea but it must surely be better than TfL's idea Only three miles? Looking at a map of the 262 it looks like roughly only a quarter of the route is being shaved off? Being a 6 mile route I thought it would become something like 4/4.5 miles, it’s still a short route without being cut though. I hope the 262 doesn’t ever get withdrawn, it’s a really good route I like it a lot. If the 262 is cut an awful lot of the route will be shared with the 473 |
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Post by lundnah on Jan 28, 2020 19:46:46 GMT
Something that I just had a thought over. Once cut the 262 will only be a 3 mile route which to me is just asking for a future withdrawal if TfL's financial states do not improve anytime soon... Only three miles? Looking at a map of the 262 it looks like roughly only a quarter of the route is being shaved off? Being a 6 mile route I thought it would become something like 4/4.5 miles, it’s still a short route without being cut though. I hope the 262 doesn’t ever get withdrawn, it’s a really good route I like it a lot. If the 262 is cut an awful lot of the route will be shared with the 473 It'd be a 4 mile route. (3.95 one way, 3.97 the other, to be exact)
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Post by Eastlondoner62 on Jan 28, 2020 19:59:46 GMT
Something that I just had a thought over. Once cut the 262 will only be a 3 mile route which to me is just asking for a future withdrawal if TfL's financial states do not improve anytime soon. Seeing as TfL are insistent on only leaving one route at Gallions Reach I wonder if the earlier suggestion of the 366 being split into two overlapping routes could happen, but just as an extension of the 262 to Barking and a cut of the 366 to Barking, London Road. It is going to break a few links from the Ilford area but I don't think anyone actually rides the 366 from north of Ilford to Beckton due to the indirect route it takes - rather opting to change for an EL1 at Ilford and picking another 366 at Barking, you can skip a good three buses this way. The obvious issue would be stand space but maybe this could be mitigated by sending the 238 to stand at Fair Cross? Might not be the best idea but it must surely be better than TfL's idea Only three miles? Looking at a map of the 262 it looks like roughly only a quarter of the route is being shaved off? Being a 6 mile route I thought it would become something like 4/4.5 miles, it’s still a short route without being cut though. I hope the 262 doesn’t ever get withdrawn, it’s a really good route I like it a lot. If the 262 is cut an awful lot of the route will be shared with the 473 I used the measure distance took on Google Maps Link to screenshot
It seems to be a cut of 3.2 miles, But I do stand corrected that the final distance of it will be more closer to 4 miles as opposed to 3 miles. However still an extremely short route - especially compared to other routes which are regarded as short such as the 227, 238 and EL1 which will all be longer. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 28, 2020 20:45:11 GMT
Something that I just had a thought over. Once cut the 262 will only be a 3 mile route which to me is just asking for a future withdrawal if TfL's financial states do not improve anytime soon. Seeing as TfL are insistent on only leaving one route at Gallions Reach I wonder if the earlier suggestion of the 366 being split into two overlapping routes could happen, but just as an extension of the 262 to Barking and a cut of the 366 to Barking, London Road. It is going to break a few links from the Ilford area but I don't think anyone actually rides the 366 from north of Ilford to Beckton due to the indirect route it takes - rather opting to change for an EL1 at Ilford and picking another 366 at Barking, you can skip a good three buses this way. The obvious issue would be stand space but maybe this could be mitigated by sending the 238 to stand at Fair Cross? Might not be the best idea but it must surely be better than TfL's idea Only three miles? Looking at a map of the 262 it looks like roughly only a quarter of the route is being shaved off? Being a 6 mile route I thought it would become something like 4/4.5 miles, it’s still a short route without being cut though. I hope the 262 doesn’t ever get withdrawn, it’s a really good route I like it a lot. If the 262 is cut an awful lot of the route will be shared with the 473 The 262 /473 are funny routes sharing a big section also duplicate by the 241 /69 from Plaistow towards Stratford. What I notice is the 473 is always the lighter used of the two routes! I am not sure how well the bus timetables are coordinated. |
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Post by DE20106 on Jan 28, 2020 21:19:43 GMT
Only three miles? Looking at a map of the 262 it looks like roughly only a quarter of the route is being shaved off? Being a 6 mile route I thought it would become something like 4/4.5 miles, it’s still a short route without being cut though. I hope the 262 doesn’t ever get withdrawn, it’s a really good route I like it a lot. If the 262 is cut an awful lot of the route will be shared with the 473 The 262 /473 are funny routes sharing a big section also duplicate by the 241 /69 from Plaistow towards Stratford. What I notice is the 473 is always the lighter used of the two routes! I am not sure how well the bus timetables are coordinated. I agree I think the 262 is busier, but I’ve been on plenty on crush loaded 473s so it’s certainly not a dead one. Buses tend to be pretty dead after Prince Regent though even at peak times. It’s funny I tend to see the 262/473 combo as more of a pair rather than routes in their own right. Huge common parallel section, always tendered together, same allocation, same buses, ran by the same operator. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 29, 2020 21:07:44 GMT
Lots more work going on at Custom House clearing the former Crossrail site. Work is taking place further along Victoria Dock road replacing pavements / kerbs, will be interesting to see what they do when they get Custom House station in the next few weeks.
Could be wrong but suspect the works are all linked to the stand creation.
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Post by ThinLizzy on Jan 29, 2020 22:12:55 GMT
Something that I just had a thought over. Once cut the 262 will only be a 3 mile route which to me is just asking for a future withdrawal if TfL's financial states do not improve anytime soon. Seeing as TfL are insistent on only leaving one route at Gallions Reach I wonder if the earlier suggestion of the 366 being split into two overlapping routes could happen, but just as an extension of the 262 to Barking and a cut of the 366 to Barking, London Road. It is going to break a few links from the Ilford area but I don't think anyone actually rides the 366 from north of Ilford to Beckton due to the indirect route it takes - rather opting to change for an EL1 at Ilford and picking another 366 at Barking, you can skip a good three buses this way. The obvious issue would be stand space but maybe this could be mitigated by sending the 238 to stand at Fair Cross? Might not be the best idea but it must surely be better than TfL's idea would the 262 need to be converted to single deck if sent via the 366 to Barking? |
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Post by Eastlondoner62 on Jan 29, 2020 22:58:18 GMT
Something that I just had a thought over. Once cut the 262 will only be a 3 mile route which to me is just asking for a future withdrawal if TfL's financial states do not improve anytime soon. Seeing as TfL are insistent on only leaving one route at Gallions Reach I wonder if the earlier suggestion of the 366 being split into two overlapping routes could happen, but just as an extension of the 262 to Barking and a cut of the 366 to Barking, London Road. It is going to break a few links from the Ilford area but I don't think anyone actually rides the 366 from north of Ilford to Beckton due to the indirect route it takes - rather opting to change for an EL1 at Ilford and picking another 366 at Barking, you can skip a good three buses this way. The obvious issue would be stand space but maybe this could be mitigated by sending the 238 to stand at Fair Cross? Might not be the best idea but it must surely be better than TfL's idea would the 262 need to be converted to single deck if sent via the 366 to Barking? Yes, if there is actually a restriction along Fleet road. I was thinking maybe the 262 could be sent down the A406 should Fleet Road have an restriction, although it could cause a headache for operators seeing as that road seem to flare up at the slightest of hiccups. |
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