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Post by southlondon413 on Oct 13, 2021 6:15:27 GMT
I’d go further and say they obviously don’t understand how hail and ride works. In what way does my comment 'not understand how hail-and-ride works'? A lot of it depends on sufficient driver training and knowledge of the route to work successfully, which is sometimes sadly lacking. An increase in the number of timetable posts in places where the bus is likely to be able to stop also increases route visibility, and iBus announcements such as "hail-and-ride: X road" have been very helpful where they have been implemented. By all means enlighten me as to the issues with the 233, but it doesn't make sense to say my comment means I 'obviously don't understand how hail-and-ride works'. I catch enough hail-and-ride buses so I would be surprised if I was ignorant of the system in general. The whole point of hail and ride is that it’s designed to stop anywhere on that section without fixed stops. If you start posting timetables all over the hail and ride section advising it’s best to wait here then you might as well install fixed stops because you’ve just created fixed stops. Most hail and ride passengers aren’t dumb, some are and will wait in a tiny gap between two cars but most aren’t and will wait in a long clear section or group together for pick up. Besides most hail and ride passengers are made up of regular passengers so they know where they will stop. Admittedly TfL used to have better announcements for the start and end of the hail and ride sections so that could be better.
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Post by twobellstogo on Oct 13, 2021 7:15:26 GMT
My guess is you don’t use the 233 very often... I’d go further and say they obviously don’t understand how hail and ride works. That’s a bit mean. uakari : fixed stops for me would be a good idea on Longlands Road largely because the 233 is a bit notorious there for having to stop every few metres over and over again. My record is nine times, but six or seven is very common. Four fixed stops each way would have done wonders for the smooth running of the service, sadly, for now, not to be.
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Post by DT 11 on Oct 13, 2021 11:01:31 GMT
In what way does my comment 'not understand how hail-and-ride works'? A lot of it depends on sufficient driver training and knowledge of the route to work successfully, which is sometimes sadly lacking. An increase in the number of timetable posts in places where the bus is likely to be able to stop also increases route visibility, and iBus announcements such as "hail-and-ride: X road" have been very helpful where they have been implemented. By all means enlighten me as to the issues with the 233, but it doesn't make sense to say my comment means I 'obviously don't understand how hail-and-ride works'. I catch enough hail-and-ride buses so I would be surprised if I was ignorant of the system in general. The whole point of hail and ride is that it’s designed to stop anywhere on that section without fixed stops. If you start posting timetables all over the hail and ride section advising it’s best to wait here then you might as well install fixed stops because you’ve just created fixed stops. Most hail and ride passengers aren’t dumb, some are and will wait in a tiny gap between two cars but most aren’t and will wait in a long clear section or group together for pick up. Besides most hail and ride passengers are made up of regular passengers so they know where they will stop. Admittedly TfL used to have better announcements for the start and end of the hail and ride sections so that could be better. The whole point of hail and ride is not to stop anywhere in that section, it’s to stop somewhere safe within that section... Whenever the B13 & B15 had hail and ride the passengers would wait in appropriate places. Most hail and ride routes have well established waiting places. Route 301 a section of Brampton Road is not safe for stopping because of the bushes. I’ve seen someone waiting there before such a stupid place to wait...
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Post by southlondon413 on Oct 13, 2021 11:29:15 GMT
The whole point of hail and ride is that it’s designed to stop anywhere on that section without fixed stops. If you start posting timetables all over the hail and ride section advising it’s best to wait here then you might as well install fixed stops because you’ve just created fixed stops. Most hail and ride passengers aren’t dumb, some are and will wait in a tiny gap between two cars but most aren’t and will wait in a long clear section or group together for pick up. Besides most hail and ride passengers are made up of regular passengers so they know where they will stop. Admittedly TfL used to have better announcements for the start and end of the hail and ride sections so that could be better. The whole point of hail and ride is not to stop anywhere in that section, it’s to stop somewhere safe within that section... Whenever the B13 & B15 had hail and ride the passengers would wait in appropriate places. Most hail and ride routes have well established waiting places. Route 301 a section of Brampton Road is not safe for stopping because of the bushes. I’ve seen someone waiting there before such a stupid place to wait... Anywhere is the idea, safe is obviously implied. I have seen people in the past wait between two parked cars on Gander Green Lane and drivers pull up in the first clear section and wait for them. My point is that by suggesting adding timetables and pointers on where to wait is in essence against the idea of hail and ride. If you’re gonna tell people where to wait you might as well install bus stops and paint markings which is not the idea of hail and ride. Even then those passengers on the B13/B15 will know where to wait because they are likely regular riders as opposed to visitors who have never been on the roure before.
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Post by vjaska on Oct 13, 2021 12:07:57 GMT
The whole point of hail and ride is not to stop anywhere in that section, it’s to stop somewhere safe within that section... Whenever the B13 & B15 had hail and ride the passengers would wait in appropriate places. Most hail and ride routes have well established waiting places. Route 301 a section of Brampton Road is not safe for stopping because of the bushes. I’ve seen someone waiting there before such a stupid place to wait... Anywhere is the idea, safe is obviously implied. I have seen people in the past wait between two parked cars on Gander Green Lane and drivers pull up in the first clear section and wait for them. My point is that by suggesting adding timetables and pointers on where to wait is in essence against the idea of hail and ride. If you’re gonna tell people where to wait you might as well install bus stops and paint markings which is not the idea of hail and ride. Even then those passengers on the B13/B15 will know where to wait because they are likely regular riders as opposed to visitors who have never been on the roure before. There are hail & rides sections that already have timetables on the route and have had them for years - the 315 section along Valley Road, Gleneldon Road & Stanthorpe Road - yet it hasn’t affected where people choose to hail the bus from with most using other points along the road instead
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Post by uakari on Oct 13, 2021 14:14:11 GMT
Also, there is the point that not all residential roads/pavements can accommodate fixed stops. For example TfL say they want to install fixed stops on a new residential section of the 384 routing, on Park Road near Victoria Road. The problem is that the pavements/carriageways on Victoria Road itself are too narrow for fixed stops, but people still need to be able to get on and off near the junction with East Barnet Road for Sainsbury's, so that bit has to stay hail-and-ride. So the danger (because this routing is all new anyway), is that drivers will run fast from the stops of Station Road to the stops on Park Road, without stopping in Victoria Road at all.
At least most roads/pavements can accommodate timetable posts (using existing lampposts, etc), and if they can't then at least drivers and passengers will know that buses should also stop on these roads, if there are timetable posts rather than fixed stops or nothing at all in other nearby residential roads on the route.
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Post by Dillon95 on Oct 17, 2021 20:26:57 GMT
The whole point of hail and ride is not to stop anywhere in that section, it’s to stop somewhere safe within that section... Whenever the B13 & B15 had hail and ride the passengers would wait in appropriate places. Most hail and ride routes have well established waiting places. Route 301 a section of Brampton Road is not safe for stopping because of the bushes. I’ve seen someone waiting there before such a stupid place to wait... Anywhere is the idea, safe is obviously implied. I have seen people in the past wait between two parked cars on Gander Green Lane and drivers pull up in the first clear section and wait for them. My point is that by suggesting adding timetables and pointers on where to wait is in essence against the idea of hail and ride. If you’re gonna tell people where to wait you might as well install bus stops and paint markings which is not the idea of hail and ride. Even then those passengers on the B13/B15 will know where to wait because they are likely regular riders as opposed to visitors who have never been on the roure before. The B14 is the same with it’s sections in Sidcup, Albany Park and Blendon.
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