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Post by snowman on Jan 27, 2020 11:27:06 GMT
Another new consultation opened 27 Jan consultations.tfl.gov.uk/buses/longlands-road-bus-stops/The Longlands Road section of bus route 233 currently operates on a ‘hail and ride’ basis. In order to improve customer safety and bus service reliability, we propose to replace this arrangement with fixed bus stops, as are used on the rest of the route. Most Hail and Ride replacements are to improve assessibility, this one includes bus reliability so presumably bus stops too often currently |
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Post by aaron1 on Jan 27, 2020 12:32:53 GMT
Will they remove the Hail and ride stops on the 226 soon
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Post by Deleted on Jan 27, 2020 17:55:43 GMT
Will they remove the Hail and ride stops on the 226 soon I've actually been thinking about that, I think TFL will do eventually or run a consultation like the 233 |
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Post by twobellstogo on Jan 28, 2020 7:37:09 GMT
Another new consultation opened 27 Jan consultations.tfl.gov.uk/buses/longlands-road-bus-stops/The Longlands Road section of bus route 233 currently operates on a ‘hail and ride’ basis. In order to improve customer safety and bus service reliability, we propose to replace this arrangement with fixed bus stops, as are used on the rest of the route. Most Hail and Ride replacements are to improve assessibility, this one includes bus reliability so presumably bus stops too often currently Presumption correct. Often the 233 will stop six or seven times on that section in my experience. |
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Post by uakari on May 3, 2020 11:19:14 GMT
Goodness, TfL really hate hail-and-ride these days, don't they? What about the equalities groups who can't walk as far to the new fixed stops?
Can someone explain to me: Is there an official TfL policy in terms of hail-and-ride, that the bus can only stop where it can actually safely pull into the pavement where there are no parked cars in between the bus and the pavement? Or is the bus ever allowed to stop without pulling in and let passengers on and off who walk between the parked cars? Or is this all left to the driver to decide on a case-by-case basis?
If the first is true, surely the wheelchair ramp could reach the pavement anyway if there are no cars in the way? If the second is true, couldn't they create a few specific 'no parking' points along a hail-and-ride route section, to allow the wheelchair ramp to reach the pavement, which passengers using wheelchairs would soon become aware of?
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Post by snowman on May 3, 2020 11:51:00 GMT
Goodness, TfL really hate hail-and-ride these days, don't they? What about the equalities groups who can't walk as far to the new fixed stops? Can someone explain to me: Is there an official TfL policy in terms of hail-and-ride, that the bus can only stop where it can actually safely pull into the pavement where there are no parked cars in between the bus and the pavement? Or is the bus ever allowed to stop without pulling in and let passengers on and off who walk between the parked cars? Or is this all left to the driver to decide on a case-by-case basis? If the first is true, surely the wheelchair ramp could reach the pavement anyway if there are no cars in the way? If the second is true, couldn't they create a few specific 'no parking' points along a hail-and-ride route section, to allow the wheelchair ramp to reach the pavement, which passengers using wheelchairs would soon become aware of? With Hail and Ride was basically left to driver to decide if safe. These tend to be on quiet roads anyway, so other traffic often not a worry There are a few natural places for people to wait and over time locals have effectively made these unofficial stops, some of these even have (or had) timetable panels hung on a lamppost. The problem is that bus can’t deploy ramp at some of these (not close enough, or a grass verge etc), so to meet disability regs trying to replace by fixed stops. If you are going to have marked no parking sections, almost as easy to have a bus stop. |
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Post by uakari on May 3, 2020 16:13:03 GMT
Goodness, TfL really hate hail-and-ride these days, don't they? What about the equalities groups who can't walk as far to the new fixed stops? Can someone explain to me: Is there an official TfL policy in terms of hail-and-ride, that the bus can only stop where it can actually safely pull into the pavement where there are no parked cars in between the bus and the pavement? Or is the bus ever allowed to stop without pulling in and let passengers on and off who walk between the parked cars? Or is this all left to the driver to decide on a case-by-case basis? If the first is true, surely the wheelchair ramp could reach the pavement anyway if there are no cars in the way? If the second is true, couldn't they create a few specific 'no parking' points along a hail-and-ride route section, to allow the wheelchair ramp to reach the pavement, which passengers using wheelchairs would soon become aware of? With Hail and Ride was basically left to driver to decide if safe. These tend to be on quiet roads anyway, so other traffic often not a worry There are a few natural places for people to wait and over time locals have effectively made these unofficial stops, some of these even have (or had) timetable panels hung on a lamppost. The problem is that bus can’t deploy ramp at some of these (not close enough, or a grass verge etc), so to meet disability regs trying to replace by fixed stops. If you are going to have marked no parking sections, almost as easy to have a bus stop. I was just wondering whether drivers ever decide to stop the bus without pulling in at all, when there are parked cars between the bus and the pavement? I think I've seen this a few times but not that often, because there is a potential safety issue if the traffic behind the bus is not expecting it to stop without pulling in, and also if one of the parked cars doesn't notice the people walking between them and suddenly starts. On the 384 for example, I think the hail-and-ride sections work well and even in the newly-planned routing, TfL is proposing to retain hail-and-ride for the 384. But I think that often drivers are over-cautious and on some sections they don't even stop when they DO have room to safely pull into the pavement or where they would be expected to stop (Barnet Hospital A&E eastbound and The Avenue eastbound, for example) because it's just not a section where they've decided to stop by tradition. I think it would encourage higher passenger usage, especially with passengers less familiar with the route, if TfL made it clear to drivers that they must indeed stop in these places if they can safely pull in and there are no parked cars in the way, or where there is an obvious benefit to passengers like opposite Barnet Hospital A&E. In fact, there is currently a hail-and-ride post for the 384 opposite New Barnet railway station entrance, but the bus never usually stops at this post because there are always parked cars in front of it - it stops slightly to the south up the hill instead. This is obviously confusing for people waiting at this post thinking that it designates a place where the bus will stop with no complaints (the driver will probably stop to let the person on but not be best pleased about it). By having marked no-parking areas along a hail-and-ride section, I didn't mean that these would designate the ONLY places that the bus will stop. I just meant that they could be used to designate places where wheelchair usees could successfully board and alight with the help of the ramp connecting with the pavement. |
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Post by danorak on Oct 11, 2021 22:06:12 GMT
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Post by twobellstogo on Oct 12, 2021 13:44:48 GMT
Not good news  (mind you, if the more vocal residents had their way, there would be no 233 down Longlands Road at all...) |
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Post by uakari on Oct 12, 2021 13:54:19 GMT
Not good news (mind you, if the more vocal residents had their way, there would be no 233 down Longlands Road at all...) Fixed stops are actually worse than hail-and-ride in some areas because it means even longer walks to and from where the stops are. Hail-and-ride can work well as long as drivers are properly trained where the hail-and-ride sections are, all the roads are clearly announced onboard, and there are enough timetable posts along the route to make the route visible and where the bus is likely to stop. |
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Post by wirewiper on Oct 12, 2021 15:16:51 GMT
Not good news (mind you, if the more vocal residents had their way, there would be no 233 down Longlands Road at all...) Fixed stops are actually worse than hail-and-ride in some areas because it means even longer walks to and from where the stops are. Hail-and-ride can work well as long as drivers are properly trained where the hail-and-ride sections are, all the roads are clearly announced onboard, and there are enough timetable posts along the route to make the route visible and where the bus is likely to stop. However at fixed stops, raised kerbs and bus stop cage road markings (so buses can pull into the kerb fully) can be put in place which are an advantage for some users. Getting on and off the bus can be more an issue for some users than the length of the walk* to and from the bus stop. * or the wheeling distance |
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Post by twobellstogo on Oct 12, 2021 17:28:00 GMT
Not good news (mind you, if the more vocal residents had their way, there would be no 233 down Longlands Road at all...) Fixed stops are actually worse than hail-and-ride in some areas because it means even longer walks to and from where the stops are. Hail-and-ride can work well as long as drivers are properly trained where the hail-and-ride sections are, all the roads are clearly announced onboard, and there are enough timetable posts along the route to make the route visible and where the bus is likely to stop. My guess is you don’t use the 233 very often... |
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Post by YX10FFN on Oct 12, 2021 18:51:10 GMT
Not good news (mind you, if the more vocal residents had their way, there would be no 233 down Longlands Road at all...) Fixed stops are actually worse than hail-and-ride in some areas because it means even longer walks to and from where the stops are. Hail-and-ride can work well as long as drivers are properly trained where the hail-and-ride sections are, all the roads are clearly announced onboard, and there are enough timetable posts along the route to make the route visible and where the bus is likely to stop. I would hope MB drivers are familiar with hail and ride practices given the amount of H&R sections across their many routes. |
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Post by southlondon413 on Oct 12, 2021 19:07:01 GMT
Fixed stops are actually worse than hail-and-ride in some areas because it means even longer walks to and from where the stops are. Hail-and-ride can work well as long as drivers are properly trained where the hail-and-ride sections are, all the roads are clearly announced onboard, and there are enough timetable posts along the route to make the route visible and where the bus is likely to stop. My guess is you don’t use the 233 very often... I’d go further and say they obviously don’t understand how hail and ride works. |
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Post by uakari on Oct 12, 2021 23:28:23 GMT
My guess is you don’t use the 233 very often... I’d go further and say they obviously don’t understand how hail and ride works. In what way does my comment 'not understand how hail-and-ride works'? A lot of it depends on sufficient driver training and knowledge of the route to work successfully, which is sometimes sadly lacking. An increase in the number of timetable posts in places where the bus is likely to be able to stop also increases route visibility, and iBus announcements such as "hail-and-ride: X road" have been very helpful where they have been implemented. By all means enlighten me as to the issues with the 233, but it doesn't make sense to say my comment means I 'obviously don't understand how hail-and-ride works'. I catch enough hail-and-ride buses so I would be surprised if I was ignorant of the system in general. |
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