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Post by ServerKing on Dec 27, 2023 19:10:26 GMT
FTFY 307 rollout has been the most disastrous yet But I think with the ever dropping road speeds thanks to TfL, these electrics will never get worn out from thrashing As for the "Hybrid" stuff, it seems they pollute more than a conventional diesel with stop start... technically LTs run like diesel trains with the diesel engine acting as a generator to drive the electric traction motor... most buses I have seen have barely run in full electric mode. Smaller engines will still be thrashed getting a heavy bus with all its electrical gubbins on the move. The most convincing I've seen has been the ADL E400 Smart Hybrid where small electric motor assists the engine Some LT's can run a long time in electric mode, depends on the driver action. Was on the route 5 with one that was in electric mode from Queens Hospital to the Asda roundabout one stop before the stand. I used to do it with HA's to see how long the distance I could go in electric mode. They did some good distances as long as you kept it below 13mph, any higher the engine would always fire up. I've been on an HV in electric mode up to 20 mph before the engine kicks in, but I think only once I've heard an LT in electric mode, but I guess it's hard with hybrids. My Corolla engine used to kick in at 25 depending on how you drove, sometimes it will shut off and you can coast at 30. Hybrid tech is great when used well (the local cops have got Corollas now, but they seem to be thrashing them everywhere, so I wonder how long they will last )
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Post by ServerKing on Dec 27, 2023 19:17:36 GMT
Batteries only lasting 6/7 years really isn’t very good, I see why hybrids didn’t really catch on outside of London. More expensive to buy AND huge midlife running costs due to battery replacement, not to mention the waste. After the second battery cycle that really only limits a very expensive bus to 14 years use. Thats terrible! How do ADL hybrids compare? Are the first of the 2nd generation ADL hybrids (like the 14-regs on the 156, 205 and 345) still on their original batteries? I dread to think of how this would be with electric buses in a few years time. It's a shame they never thought that through. How they dispose of the batteries will be interesting. I've seen the performance of the HV's can be either great, or a little scary I was on one of them on the 243 as the bus went across the junction at Tottenham High Cross and from 1st to second gear was a really loooong pause and we almost came to a halt! Surprising the batteries don't get some charge from thrashing on the 123, but considering these buses are used 24/7, they do well. Still think that the E400 Smart Hybrids would be better overall with a conventional engine and gearbox.
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Post by cl54 on Dec 27, 2023 19:52:47 GMT
I dread to think of how this would be with electric buses in a few years time. It's a shame they never thought that through. How they dispose of the batteries will be interesting. I've seen the performance of the HV's can be either great, or a little scary I was on one of them on the 243 as the bus went across the junction at Tottenham High Cross and from 1st to second gear was a really loooong pause and we almost came to a halt! Surprising the batteries don't get some charge from thrashing on the 123, but considering these buses are used 24/7, they do well. Still think that the E400 Smart Hybrids would be better overall with a conventional engine and gearbox. Are there gears on hybrid buses? I would have thought they are CVT so speed increases as the throttle is applied.
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Post by DE20106 on Dec 27, 2023 19:55:51 GMT
It's a shame they never thought that through. How they dispose of the batteries will be interesting. I've seen the performance of the HV's can be either great, or a little scary I was on one of them on the 243 as the bus went across the junction at Tottenham High Cross and from 1st to second gear was a really loooong pause and we almost came to a halt! Surprising the batteries don't get some charge from thrashing on the 123, but considering these buses are used 24/7, they do well. Still think that the E400 Smart Hybrids would be better overall with a conventional engine and gearbox. Are there gears on hybrid buses? I would have thought they are CVT so speed increases as the throttle is applied. Depends on the hybrid set up. I’m pretty certain the newer E40Hs don’t have gears, but the Volvo’s have a specially designed 12-speed gearbox called the ‘Volvo iShift’, which seems quite controversial as some drivers like them, some don’t. It has a nickname by those who don’t like them, by taking the ‘F’ out of ‘iShift’😂
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Post by ServerKing on Dec 27, 2023 20:25:29 GMT
It's a shame they never thought that through. How they dispose of the batteries will be interesting. I've seen the performance of the HV's can be either great, or a little scary I was on one of them on the 243 as the bus went across the junction at Tottenham High Cross and from 1st to second gear was a really loooong pause and we almost came to a halt! Surprising the batteries don't get some charge from thrashing on the 123, but considering these buses are used 24/7, they do well. Still think that the E400 Smart Hybrids would be better overall with a conventional engine and gearbox. Are there gears on hybrid buses? I would have thought they are CVT so speed increases as the throttle is applied. The i-shift has 12 possible gear combinations, but just uses 4 of these. The BAE Hybrid drive in the ADLs is CVT, so technically one gear. The only "conventional" buses are the Streetdeck 48v Hybrid which has an electric motor helping the Mercedes engine and Voith 4 speed box, (Arriva London's one was on the 141 for a while, Arriva Midlands had one at Tamworth garage on the 110 to Birmingham, this performed well ) and the E400, with a less annoying motor assisting Cummins engine and Voith 'box
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Post by VWH1413 on Dec 27, 2023 21:08:55 GMT
Sounds like AR batch Gemini 3s starting to overrev due to the long term flat battery issue causing slow acceleration. A very common issue across all garages, companies and Volvo batches. I believe the WN Gemini 3 batch had gotten new batteries recently alongside their refurbishments. Most 17 reg stuff having this issue now due to being 6/7 years old. For some reason it takes 1-2 years to sort out. This is starting to happen to many Gemini 3's now, was happening to the Gemini 2 around 3 years ago until the all got the main hybrid batteries replaced. at near £35k which includes warranty and coding to the bus it is not cheap! Was a nasty shock (and heart breaking) after 1st lockdown to discover such a thing in Gemini 2 batches. Was a surprise of sorts they did get fixed (eventually) at the time considering I read operators being very vocal on the displeasure of replacing batteries to the point of a waste of money to do so.
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Post by capitalomnibus on Dec 28, 2023 11:38:31 GMT
Some LT's can run a long time in electric mode, depends on the driver action. Was on the route 5 with one that was in electric mode from Queens Hospital to the Asda roundabout one stop before the stand. I used to do it with HA's to see how long the distance I could go in electric mode. They did some good distances as long as you kept it below 13mph, any higher the engine would always fire up. I've been on an HV in electric mode up to 20 mph before the engine kicks in, but I think only once I've heard an LT in electric mode, but I guess it's hard with hybrids. My Corolla engine used to kick in at 25 depending on how you drove, sometimes it will shut off and you can coast at 30. Hybrid tech is great when used well (the local cops have got Corollas now, but they seem to be thrashing them everywhere, so I wonder how long they will last ) I have been on loads of LT's in electric mode. The problem is, there are a lot of drivers that restarts the engine due to heating would blow cold when the engine is not running.
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Post by capitalomnibus on Dec 28, 2023 11:42:48 GMT
I dread to think of how this would be with electric buses in a few years time. It's a shame they never thought that through. How they dispose of the batteries will be interesting. I've seen the performance of the HV's can be either great, or a little scary I was on one of them on the 243 as the bus went across the junction at Tottenham High Cross and from 1st to second gear was a really loooong pause and we almost came to a halt! Surprising the batteries don't get some charge from thrashing on the 123, but considering these buses are used 24/7, they do well. Still think that the E400 Smart Hybrids would be better overall with a conventional engine and gearbox. The 123 only has a small section to thrash, you go on as though it is doing 20 miles on the M11. Only the Woodford Avenue and Southend Rd section has a speed of 40 or 50 mph. It is better when you brake from the higher speeds to get regenerative braking for electric mode. One of the killers of the batteries is drivers leaving them on and not switching the buses off. Mainly on the stands, the bus would be left running, then cut off, in electric mode, with interior lights, headlights etc.
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Post by Dad91 on Dec 28, 2023 13:39:43 GMT
I've been on an HV in electric mode up to 20 mph before the engine kicks in, but I think only once I've heard an LT in electric mode, but I guess it's hard with hybrids. My Corolla engine used to kick in at 25 depending on how you drove, sometimes it will shut off and you can coast at 30. Hybrid tech is great when used well (the local cops have got Corollas now, but they seem to be thrashing them everywhere, so I wonder how long they will last ) I have been on loads of LT's in electric mode. The problem is, there are a lot of drivers that restarts the engine due to heating would blow cold when the engine is not running. I like when the hybrids switch to Electric mode. I been seeing new Met police cars have new Corollas Estate some of them flooring it they pretty nippy and fast seen one yesterday Ealing common area speeding towards me
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Post by ServerKing on Dec 28, 2023 16:27:27 GMT
I have been on loads of LT's in electric mode. The problem is, there are a lot of drivers that restarts the engine due to heating would blow cold when the engine is not running. I like when the hybrids switch to Electric mode. I been seeing new Met police cars have new Corollas Estate some of them flooring it they pretty nippy and fast seen one yesterday Ealing common area speeding towards me My last company car was a Corolla Hybrid CVT, annoying on the motorway with constant buzzy engine, though I found in Brake mode (B on gear box instead of Drive) it was slightly better on hills (I used to cover High Wycombe, so had an affinity with DLA drivers on some of those inclines ) but it was not too bad on the country lanes when thrashing around the Shires capitalomnibus I've seen DWs on the 123 from Gants Hill to South Woodford give it beans and assumed the HV drivers would do the same if they could... wherever the HVs go next after the 243, I hope they replace the batteries. Is this still covered by Volvo or do operators have to shell out for each repair? Probably why I've seen more B5TLs out and about with operators like East Yorkshire, rather than the hybrids. Could the B5LHs be converted to B5TLs, seeing how Reading Buses converted their E400 hybrids to straight diesel (though I imagine a E200 sized engine running through a CVT box moving a decker isn't that fuel efficient )
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Post by BK15AZR on Dec 28, 2023 19:09:05 GMT
I like when the hybrids switch to Electric mode. I been seeing new Met police cars have new Corollas Estate some of them flooring it they pretty nippy and fast seen one yesterday Ealing common area speeding towards me My last company car was a Corolla Hybrid CVT, annoying on the motorway with constant buzzy engine, though I found in Brake mode (B on gear box instead of Drive) it was slightly better on hills (I used to cover High Wycombe, so had an affinity with DLA drivers on some of those inclines ) but it was not too bad on the country lanes when thrashing around the Shires capitalomnibus I've seen DWs on the 123 from Gants Hill to South Woodford give it beans and assumed the HV drivers would do the same if they could... wherever the HVs go next after the 243, I hope they replace the batteries. Is this still covered by Volvo or do operators have to shell out for each repair? Probably why I've seen more B5TLs out and about with operators like East Yorkshire, rather than the hybrids. Could the B5LHs be converted to B5TLs, seeing how Reading Buses converted their E400 hybrids to straight diesel (though I imagine a E200 sized engine running through a CVT box moving a decker isn't that fuel efficient ) I think NXWM has converted their B5LHs into diesels if I remember correctly? Not sure if I'm dreaming though...I definitely remember their E400Hs are now pure diesels.
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Post by Volvo on Dec 28, 2023 21:13:47 GMT
Batteries only lasting 6/7 years really isn’t very good, I see why hybrids didn’t really catch on outside of London. More expensive to buy AND huge midlife running costs due to battery replacement, not to mention the waste. After the second battery cycle that really only limits a very expensive bus to 14 years use. Thats terrible! How do ADL hybrids compare? Are the first of the 2nd generation ADL hybrids (like the 14-regs on the 156, 205 and 345) still on their original batteries? I dread to think of how this would be with electric buses in a few years time. I have been thinking this for ages!
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Post by DE20106 on Dec 28, 2023 21:17:30 GMT
I dread to think of how this would be with electric buses in a few years time. ai have been thinking this for ages! Well the 16, 66 and 67-reg SEe’s seem to be doing okay! And they’re very early electric buses. I also wonder how the 312’s Metrocities are doing If only AI could come up with a solution to it
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Post by ServerKing on Dec 28, 2023 22:00:20 GMT
ai have been thinking this for ages! Well the 16, 66 and 67-reg SEe’s seem to be doing okay! And they’re very early electric buses. I also wonder how the 312’s Metrocities are doing If only AI could come up with a solution to it Which garage is AI? I know AD and AR
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Post by capitalomnibus on Dec 28, 2023 22:58:10 GMT
Well the 16, 66 and 67-reg SEe’s seem to be doing okay! And they’re very early electric buses. I also wonder how the 312’s Metrocities are doing If only AI could come up with a solution to it Which garage is AI? I know AD and AR It is Artificial intelligence it would be monitored by a Server King where all the data buses would be stored in the night.
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