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Post by Deleted on Feb 8, 2024 16:17:49 GMT
Has an order been confirmed for the 243? Interesting it says coming of the back of an order of 34, which we know is for the 279. So this means either 243 order has not yet placed or with an alternative supplier. Also interesting it says it produces 86% less CO² than a Euro6 diesel. So still produces 14% of the CO²? Are we being conned by this zero emissions narrative? I assume it includes emissions produced by the production of the buses |
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Post by ServerKing on Feb 8, 2024 17:49:47 GMT
Has an order been confirmed for the 243? Interesting it says coming of the back of an order of 34, which we know is for the 279. So this means either 243 order has not yet placed or with an alternative supplier. Also interesting it says it produces 86% less CO² than a Euro6 diesel. So still produces 14% of the CO²? Are we being conned by this zero emissions narrative? We know all this CO² is just political will and posturing... so it won't make that much of an impact. I wonder if the 243 order will feature BZLs as Tottenham Garage love their Volvo's?  If they order the Electroliners, they need to do it before the summer shutdown at Wrightbus... as the contract starts 27 August IIRC... but knowing Arriva's luck, none of the electrics will be ready and we will continue with the HV's  |
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dace2
Driver
I like vehicles. Buses, trains, cars, all of them. I made a song out of Stagecoach too.
Posts: 287
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Post by dace2 on Feb 8, 2024 18:28:59 GMT
Interesting it says coming of the back of an order of 34, which we know is for the 279. So this means either 243 order has not yet placed or with an alternative supplier. Also interesting it says it produces 86% less CO² than a Euro6 diesel. So still produces 14% of the CO²? Are we being conned by this zero emissions narrative? We know all this CO² is just political will and posturing... so it won't make that much of an impact. I wonder if the 243 order will feature BZLs as Tottenham Garage love their Volvo's? If they order the Electroliners, they need to do it before the summer shutdown at Wrightbus... as the contract starts 27 August IIRC... but knowing Arriva's luck, none of the electrics will be ready and we will continue with the HV's What do you think will happen to the 341 and 41? |
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Post by southlondonbus on Feb 8, 2024 18:58:11 GMT
We know all this CO² is just political will and posturing... so it won't make that much of an impact. I wonder if the 243 order will feature BZLs as Tottenham Garage love their Volvo's? If they order the Electroliners, they need to do it before the summer shutdown at Wrightbus... as the contract starts 27 August IIRC... but knowing Arriva's luck, none of the electrics will be ready and we will continue with the HV's What do you think will happen to the 341 and 41? Whilst I said the same with the 243, I still can see the 341 retained with the HVs. The 41 I would say is very likely to be new. |
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Post by londonbuses184 on Feb 8, 2024 20:29:44 GMT
We know all this CO² is just political will and posturing... so it won't make that much of an impact. I wonder if the 243 order will feature BZLs as Tottenham Garage love their Volvo's? If they order the Electroliners, they need to do it before the summer shutdown at Wrightbus... as the contract starts 27 August IIRC... but knowing Arriva's luck, none of the electrics will be ready and we will continue with the HV's What do you think will happen to the 341 and 41? I think the 41 and 341 will both probably be retained with HVs |
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Post by southlondonbus on Feb 8, 2024 20:55:05 GMT
What do you think will happen to the 341 and 41? I think the 41 and 341 will both probably be retained with HVs That would use the ones from the 243 quite well with the 34 and the 141 potentially also staying hybrid on a 3 year term. That would potentially leave the east London routes (66, 103, 150, 175, 370) all to use a large new batch of buses like happened in Croydon. |
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Post by Eastlondoner62 on Feb 8, 2024 22:17:19 GMT
I think the 41 and 341 will both probably be retained with HVs That would use the ones from the 243 quite well with the 34 and the 141 potentially also staying hybrid on a 3 year term. That would potentially leave the east London routes (66, 103, 150, 175, 370) all to use a large new batch of buses like happened in Croydon. Arriva will probably need to be weary of Metroline on at least the 41, the 17 going fully LT will release a handful of BDEs that are effectively garage bound to HT assuming they use the earlier proprietary charger, a part existing electric allocation could cause an issue for Arriva on the 41 if they in turn go for a full new electric allocation. The East London tenders while similar to Croydon aren't directly comparable. In Croydon neither Go Ahead or Abellio had the ability to take a massive chunk due to garage space, all both could do is probably put in bids for smaller groups of routes which couldn't compete with an Arriva joint bid with everything in it. Out in East London at least Stagecoach have the space to take pretty much the entire portfolio of Arriva's routes. RM funnily enough hasn't replaced the 248, NS can move the 86 fully to LI if necessary and BK have space left over from the 366 loss, alongside the 5s space never being fully taken up and the 396 loss to even after the 238 goes in. Go Ahead at RR can certainly fit in both the 150 and 175, probably the 66 too which would give quite some weight behind any competing joint bids. |
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Post by ServerKing on Feb 8, 2024 22:21:57 GMT
That would use the ones from the 243 quite well with the 34 and the 141 potentially also staying hybrid on a 3 year term. That would potentially leave the east London routes (66, 103, 150, 175, 370) all to use a large new batch of buses like happened in Croydon. Arriva will probably need to be weary of Metroline on at least the 41, the 17 going fully LT will release a handful of BDEs that are effectively garage bound to HT assuming they use the earlier proprietary charger, a part existing electric allocation could cause an issue for Arriva on the 41 if they in turn go for a full new electric allocation. The East London tenders while similar to Croydon aren't directly comparable. In Croydon neither Go Ahead or Abellio had the ability to take a massive chunk due to garage space, all both could do is probably put in bids for smaller groups of routes which couldn't compete with an Arriva joint bid with everything in it. Out in East London at least Stagecoach have the space to take pretty much the entire portfolio of Arriva's routes. RM funnily enough hasn't replaced the 248, NS can move the 86 fully to LI if necessary and BK have space left over from the 366 loss, alongside the 5s space never being fully taken up and the 396 loss to even after the 238 goes in. Go Ahead at RR can certainly fit in both the 150 and 175, probably the 66 too which would give quite some weight behind any competing joint bids. I would like to see Metroline with the 41! It would make for some variety Remaining DWs could be replaced with 5 series ones from the 307, so the 123 has something fast enough for the route  Arriva could get the 298 back with HVs displaced from the speculated loss of the 41  |
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Post by WH241 on Feb 8, 2024 22:23:25 GMT
That would use the ones from the 243 quite well with the 34 and the 141 potentially also staying hybrid on a 3 year term. That would potentially leave the east London routes (66, 103, 150, 175, 370) all to use a large new batch of buses like happened in Croydon. Arriva will probably need to be weary of Metroline on at least the 41, the 17 going fully LT will release a handful of BDEs that are effectively garage bound to HT assuming they use the earlier proprietary charger, a part existing electric allocation could cause an issue for Arriva on the 41 if they in turn go for a full new electric allocation. The East London tenders while similar to Croydon aren't directly comparable. In Croydon neither Go Ahead or Abellio had the ability to take a massive chunk due to garage space, all both could do is probably put in bids for smaller groups of routes which couldn't compete with an Arriva joint bid with everything in it. Out in East London at least Stagecoach have the space to take pretty much the entire portfolio of Arriva's routes. RM funnily enough hasn't replaced the 248, NS can move the 86 fully to LI if necessary and BK have space left over from the 366 loss, alongside the 5s space never being fully taken up and the 396 loss to even after the 238 goes in. Go Ahead at RR can certainly fit in both the 150 and 175, probably the 66 too which would give quite some weight behind any competing joint bids. Can RR really take on that much work? They are taking the 325 and 366 and seem to be having issues relating to charging infrastructure being installed. Now we know Arriva are still bidding for work out of DX I imagine they will put in bids for the 150 and 175. I know it’s not guaranteed but suspect they will retain both routes! We have seen it time and time again were companies lose huge amount of work only for TfL to suddenly start awarding them again. |
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Post by Eastlondoner62 on Feb 8, 2024 22:28:50 GMT
Arriva will probably need to be weary of Metroline on at least the 41, the 17 going fully LT will release a handful of BDEs that are effectively garage bound to HT assuming they use the earlier proprietary charger, a part existing electric allocation could cause an issue for Arriva on the 41 if they in turn go for a full new electric allocation. The East London tenders while similar to Croydon aren't directly comparable. In Croydon neither Go Ahead or Abellio had the ability to take a massive chunk due to garage space, all both could do is probably put in bids for smaller groups of routes which couldn't compete with an Arriva joint bid with everything in it. Out in East London at least Stagecoach have the space to take pretty much the entire portfolio of Arriva's routes. RM funnily enough hasn't replaced the 248, NS can move the 86 fully to LI if necessary and BK have space left over from the 366 loss, alongside the 5s space never being fully taken up and the 396 loss to even after the 238 goes in. Go Ahead at RR can certainly fit in both the 150 and 175, probably the 66 too which would give quite some weight behind any competing joint bids. Can RR really take on that much work? They are taking the 325 and 366 and seem to be having issues relating to charging infrastructure being installed. Now we know Arriva are still bidding for work out of DX I imagine they will put in bids for the 150 and 175. I know it’s not guaranteed but suspect they will retain both routes! We have seen it time and time again were companies lose huge amount of work only for TfL to suddenly start awarding them again. You said they'd retain the 325. RR are a huge garage, they've taken over the industrial unit next to them and I believe their capacity as a result is pretty much what it was before they lost that yard. They've only got a PVR of 173 now since DS opened. |
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dace2
Driver
I like vehicles. Buses, trains, cars, all of them. I made a song out of Stagecoach too.
Posts: 287
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Post by dace2 on Feb 8, 2024 22:34:19 GMT
Arriva will probably need to be weary of Metroline on at least the 41, the 17 going fully LT will release a handful of BDEs that are effectively garage bound to HT assuming they use the earlier proprietary charger, a part existing electric allocation could cause an issue for Arriva on the 41 if they in turn go for a full new electric allocation. The East London tenders while similar to Croydon aren't directly comparable. In Croydon neither Go Ahead or Abellio had the ability to take a massive chunk due to garage space, all both could do is probably put in bids for smaller groups of routes which couldn't compete with an Arriva joint bid with everything in it. Out in East London at least Stagecoach have the space to take pretty much the entire portfolio of Arriva's routes. RM funnily enough hasn't replaced the 248, NS can move the 86 fully to LI if necessary and BK have space left over from the 366 loss, alongside the 5s space never being fully taken up and the 396 loss to even after the 238 goes in. Go Ahead at RR can certainly fit in both the 150 and 175, probably the 66 too which would give quite some weight behind any competing joint bids. I would like to see Metroline with the 41! It would make for some variety Remaining DWs could be replaced with 5 series ones from the 307, so the 123 has something fast enough for the route Arriva could get the 298 back with HVs displaced from the speculated loss of the 41 we can't loose the 41. that's a bit scary if we do. |
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dace2
Driver
I like vehicles. Buses, trains, cars, all of them. I made a song out of Stagecoach too.
Posts: 287
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Post by dace2 on Feb 8, 2024 22:43:53 GMT
I think the 41 and 341 will both probably be retained with HVs That would use the ones from the 243 quite well with the 34 and the 141 potentially also staying hybrid on a 3 year term. That would potentially leave the east London routes (66, 103, 150, 175, 370) all to use a large new batch of buses like happened in Croydon. this also reminds me of something. i cant lie, i do see the 329 getting away with electrics and using existing hybrids. Since this is in wood green. |
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Post by londonbuses184 on Feb 8, 2024 23:29:29 GMT
Arriva will probably need to be weary of Metroline on at least the 41, the 17 going fully LT will release a handful of BDEs that are effectively garage bound to HT assuming they use the earlier proprietary charger, a part existing electric allocation could cause an issue for Arriva on the 41 if they in turn go for a full new electric allocation. The East London tenders while similar to Croydon aren't directly comparable. In Croydon neither Go Ahead or Abellio had the ability to take a massive chunk due to garage space, all both could do is probably put in bids for smaller groups of routes which couldn't compete with an Arriva joint bid with everything in it. Out in East London at least Stagecoach have the space to take pretty much the entire portfolio of Arriva's routes. RM funnily enough hasn't replaced the 248, NS can move the 86 fully to LI if necessary and BK have space left over from the 366 loss, alongside the 5s space never being fully taken up and the 396 loss to even after the 238 goes in. Go Ahead at RR can certainly fit in both the 150 and 175, probably the 66 too which would give quite some weight behind any competing joint bids. I would like to see Metroline with the 41! It would make for some variety Remaining DWs could be replaced with 5 series ones from the 307, so the 123 has something fast enough for the route Arriva could get the 298 back with HVs displaced from the speculated loss of the 41 Doesn't the 298 contract end in 2027? |
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Post by vjaska on Feb 9, 2024 0:13:07 GMT
Can RR really take on that much work? They are taking the 325 and 366 and seem to be having issues relating to charging infrastructure being installed. Now we know Arriva are still bidding for work out of DX I imagine they will put in bids for the 150 and 175. I know it’s not guaranteed but suspect they will retain both routes! We have seen it time and time again were companies lose huge amount of work only for TfL to suddenly start awarding them again. You said they'd retain the 325. RR are a huge garage, they've taken over the industrial unit next to them and I believe their capacity as a result is pretty much what it was before they lost that yard. They've only got a PVR of 173 now since DS opened. RR is certainly huge as I visited it as part of the joint open day with BK and that was before the industrial unit was take over IIRC |
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Post by LD71YLO (BE37054) on Feb 9, 2024 13:22:37 GMT
I would like to see Metroline with the 41! It would make for some variety Remaining DWs could be replaced with 5 series ones from the 307, so the 123 has something fast enough for the route Arriva could get the 298 back with HVs displaced from the speculated loss of the 41 Doesn't the 298 contract end in 2027? Yes but could be surrendered early. I suspect the OP has it confused with route 299 though, which is up for tender in 2025. |
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If they order the Electroliners, they need to do it before the summer shutdown at Wrightbus... as the contract starts 27 August IIRC... but knowing Arriva's luck, none of the electrics will be ready and we will continue with the HV's 
