Withdrawn/new bus route ideas

[Deleted]

Dec 23, 2020 19:24:00 GMT LD71YLO (BE37054) said:

Dec 23, 2020 18:45:13 GMT twobellstogo said:

Not withstanding the low bridge : rob is right - the K6 proposal is interesting : I presume this would be direct to Thames Ditton via Portsmouth Road? Not quite sure where you could terminate it easily at Thames Ditton though - I think I’d send it a bit further and take it up the A309 to terminate on the 461 westbound bus stop at Hampton Court Station.

Not at all struck on the 65 proposal though!

The idea with the K6 is really good. It could also serve Weston Green.

Ah, would bring back memories of the 152A, 215,218,K10....

[LondonNorthern]

One thing I'm going to possibly suggest TFL may look at and it could be the removal of the Lea Valley Campsite extension in the summer on the 215.

[wirewiper]

Feb 5, 2021 12:42:46 GMT LondonNorthern said:

One thing I'm going to possibly suggest TFL may look at and it could be the removal of the Lea Valley Campsite extension in the summer on the 215.

Far from removing it, TfL recently changed to to operate all day and all year round. I don't think removing it would yield any worthwhile saving. 

[nad1152597]

Jul 26, 2021 18:30:35 GMT frank said:

Just reading some of the Walthamstow related discussion on the W12/15/17/19 etc. A proposal for your consideration.

New route 438: Walthamstow Central – Whitechapel

Via:

Walthamstow Central bus station
Hoe Street
Queens Road
Markhouse Road
Markhouse Avenue
South Access Road (council depot)
Argall Avenue Industrial Estate
Leabridge Road
Chatsworth Road
Homerton Hospital
Homerton High Street
Morning Lane (via 425 routing)
Lauriston Road
Victoria Park
Grove Road
Old ford Road (or continue via Grove Road to Roman Road)
Bonner Street
Roman Road
Bethnal Green
Bethnal Green Road
Vallance Road
Whitechapel Road
Whitechapel Station / The Royal London Hospital

The purpose of this route proposal is as following:

1. To provide a quicker link between Walthamstow and Homerton Hospital than the W15 (or if the W15/W17 split does ever go ahead to maintain a link).
2. To provide links to Argall Avenue industrial estate from the south.
3. A direct link between Walthamstow and the Lower Clapton area.
4. To provide a bus service on unserved roads such as Queens Road in Walthamstow and Old Ford Road/Bonner Street.
5. To link the Victoria Park/South Hackney areas to Crossrail services at Whitechapel and the Royal London Hospital (and also Homerton Hospital for Whitechapel/Bethnal Green).

Caveats

1. If Queens Road is a no go, the route can run direct via the W19 between Argall Avenue and Walthamstow Central.
2. If Old Ford Road/Bonner Street is a no go, the route can run along Roman Road instead.
3. I understand Walthamstow bus station is busy. If standing is an issue, I personally believe that the bus station can be reconfigured to attain at least x2 additional stands. Although happy to be told otherwise. If standing is an issue and additional standing can’t be found, then route the route via the W19 and stand outside the at the bus stop on Selbourne road directly outside the bus station.
4. Likewise, for Whitechapel the aim would be to use a stand around the 106 area. If this is an issue then either the route continues to somewhere in Shadwell (!?), or run direct from Bethnal Green via Cambridge Road, then Whitechapel station and onto Aldgate to stand at the bus station.

The service level would be as follows:

1. 15/20/20 initially. I think a daytime service of 20 mins would be two low through some of these densely populated areas to be attractive. 12 might be too high at first but if the route were to be successful it could over time increase to 12 mins (like the W19).

The service would use single deck buses. I have chosen 438 as the number as a bit of nostalgia really, the 38 used to service Walthamstow.

Other service alterations:

1. The W19 could either be cut back to Walthamstow Central bus station (I know standing 2 additional services could be an issue) if traffic and late running is a problem across the route.
2. Or the W19 could be re-routed to Coppermill Lane in place of W12 which would be cutback to Walthamstow Central. This would provide a better frequency of service to the Coppermill Lane residents.

Any thoughts? Particularly on the standing as I know some members of this forum will be more knowledgeable than I on this matter!

Love this new route 438 idea! Reminds me of parts of the 48 in a way. I think it would be useful and I can see that you have done your best to avoid the traffic hotspots in Hoe Street and Lea Bridge Road. I would try it out as 15 minutes across all 7 days as I think it would attract decent passenger loadings.
About stand space, you could send the 20 or 215 or maybe both to Walthamstow, St James Street or Walthamstow, South Grove bus stands in order to accommodate the 438 and W12/W19

[frank]

Jul 26, 2021 19:16:49 GMT nad1152597 said:

Jul 26, 2021 18:30:35 GMT frank said:

Just reading some of the Walthamstow related discussion on the W12/15/17/19 etc. A proposal for your consideration.

New route 438: Walthamstow Central – Whitechapel

Via:

Walthamstow Central bus station
Hoe Street
Queens Road
Markhouse Road
Markhouse Avenue
South Access Road (council depot)
Argall Avenue Industrial Estate
Leabridge Road
Chatsworth Road
Homerton Hospital
Homerton High Street
Morning Lane (via 425 routing)
Lauriston Road
Victoria Park
Grove Road
Old ford Road (or continue via Grove Road to Roman Road)
Bonner Street
Roman Road
Bethnal Green
Bethnal Green Road
Vallance Road
Whitechapel Road
Whitechapel Station / The Royal London Hospital

The purpose of this route proposal is as following:

1. To provide a quicker link between Walthamstow and Homerton Hospital than the W15 (or if the W15/W17 split does ever go ahead to maintain a link).
2. To provide links to Argall Avenue industrial estate from the south.
3. A direct link between Walthamstow and the Lower Clapton area.
4. To provide a bus service on unserved roads such as Queens Road in Walthamstow and Old Ford Road/Bonner Street.
5. To link the Victoria Park/South Hackney areas to Crossrail services at Whitechapel and the Royal London Hospital (and also Homerton Hospital for Whitechapel/Bethnal Green).

Caveats

1. If Queens Road is a no go, the route can run direct via the W19 between Argall Avenue and Walthamstow Central.
2. If Old Ford Road/Bonner Street is a no go, the route can run along Roman Road instead.
3. I understand Walthamstow bus station is busy. If standing is an issue, I personally believe that the bus station can be reconfigured to attain at least x2 additional stands. Although happy to be told otherwise. If standing is an issue and additional standing can’t be found, then route the route via the W19 and stand outside the at the bus stop on Selbourne road directly outside the bus station.
4. Likewise, for Whitechapel the aim would be to use a stand around the 106 area. If this is an issue then either the route continues to somewhere in Shadwell (!?), or run direct from Bethnal Green via Cambridge Road, then Whitechapel station and onto Aldgate to stand at the bus station.

The service level would be as follows:

1. 15/20/20 initially. I think a daytime service of 20 mins would be two low through some of these densely populated areas to be attractive. 12 might be too high at first but if the route were to be successful it could over time increase to 12 mins (like the W19).

The service would use single deck buses. I have chosen 438 as the number as a bit of nostalgia really, the 38 used to service Walthamstow.

Other service alterations:

1. The W19 could either be cut back to Walthamstow Central bus station (I know standing 2 additional services could be an issue) if traffic and late running is a problem across the route.
2. Or the W19 could be re-routed to Coppermill Lane in place of W12 which would be cutback to Walthamstow Central. This would provide a better frequency of service to the Coppermill Lane residents.

Any thoughts? Particularly on the standing as I know some members of this forum will be more knowledgeable than I on this matter!

Love this new route 438 idea! Reminds me of parts of the 48 in a way. I think it would be useful and I can see that you have done your best to avoid the traffic hotspots in Hoe Street and Lea Bridge Road. I would try it out as 15 minutes across all 7 days as I think it would attract decent passenger loadings.
About stand space, you could send the 20 or 215 or maybe both to Walthamstow, St James Street or Walthamstow, South Grove bus stands in order to accommodate the 438 and W12/W19

Ah, yes I had forgotten about the South Grove Bus stands. Good shout!

A 15 minute evening service I think on reflection would be a good idea, especially for the Lower Clapton/Victoria Park/Homerton/Bethnal Green areas.

[LondonNorthern]

Oct 23, 2021 12:32:45 GMT capitalomnibus said:

Oct 23, 2021 10:29:47 GMT VMH2537 said:

My Chingford and Walthamstow Bus Study 

I have been planning and reviewing the network within Chingford and Walthamstow on how the network could be more simple, reliable and more efficient when investing resources. I am also working on similar network studies in particular Old Oak Comman, Wood Green, Brent Cross etc. 

Any feedback and comments will be useful to this

Download Link : drive.google.com/file/d/1vUaFHMq4riJgh0NXU6rE776hnRmQ49FH/view?usp=sharing  

You may want to run spell check on the article as it has a few typo's i.e. busses,Chigford etc. 
Some of it is what TfL has already published. The 377 I see useful, maybe from Chingford Mount it can go along New Road to end at Chingford Hospital roundabout.

As for 357, I still see it as a useless route that needs to be withdrawn.

If you were say in the TFL hotseat would you perhaps make any amendments to other routes e.g 215 to Whipps Cross or would you just kill off the 357 with no replacement?

[capitalomnibus]

Oct 23, 2021 12:37:28 GMT LondonNorthern said:

Oct 23, 2021 12:32:45 GMT capitalomnibus said:

You may want to run spell check on the article as it has a few typo's i.e. busses,Chigford etc. 
Some of it is what TfL has already published. The 377 I see useful, maybe from Chingford Mount it can go along New Road to end at Chingford Hospital roundabout.

As for 357, I still see it as a useless route that needs to be withdrawn.

If you were say in the TFL hotseat would you perhaps make any amendments to other routes e.g 215 to Whipps Cross or would you just kill off the 357 with no replacement?

Get rid of it without replacement and amend other routes. It is purely only there to please people of Chingford to say they have a route to the hospital.

[capitalomnibus]

Oct 23, 2021 13:04:12 GMT MKAY315 said:

Oct 23, 2021 12:32:45 GMT capitalomnibus said:

You may want to run spell check on the article as it has a few typo's i.e. busses,Chigford etc. 
Some of it is what TfL has already published. The 377 I see useful, maybe from Chingford Mount it can go along New Road to end at Chingford Hospital roundabout.

As for 357, I still see it as a useless route that needs to be withdrawn.

I wouldn't say useless as it still serves it's purpose by going through Whipps Cross and Chingford Mount. You could get the W16 a few yards down in Lea Bridge Road but the W16 is a single decker which has a limited capacity as opposed to the 357 (apart from Sundays of course) which can help other buses in Lea Bridge Road and provide support to the 97 up until Chingford Mount.

The 357 is never worth of a decker load unless other buses are around. If a route like the 48 could have been cut that carried far more then 357 is not justified whatsoever. With the 215 running along from the Central and so many buses between Bakers Arms and Walthamstow Central, it really is not needed. Easy way to prove this watch the amount of people that would continue their journey after Walthamstow towards Whipps Cross, it is hardly even worth a decker.

[greenboy]

Oct 24, 2021 0:44:52 GMT capitalomnibus said:

Oct 23, 2021 13:04:12 GMT MKAY315 said:

I wouldn't say useless as it still serves it's purpose by going through Whipps Cross and Chingford Mount. You could get the W16 a few yards down in Lea Bridge Road but the W16 is a single decker which has a limited capacity as opposed to the 357 (apart from Sundays of course) which can help other buses in Lea Bridge Road and provide support to the 97 up until Chingford Mount.

The 357 is never worth of a decker load unless other buses are around. If a route like the 48 could have been cut that carried far more then 357 is not justified whatsoever. With the 215 running along from the Central and so many buses between Bakers Arms and Walthamstow Central, it really is not needed. Easy way to prove this watch the amount of people that would continue their journey after Walthamstow towards Whipps Cross, it is hardly even worth a decker.

I agree with you about the 357, it's routes like this that should be the first to go when cuts are being made rather than randomly reducing frequencies.

[LD71YLO (BE37054)]

Oct 24, 2021 8:14:32 GMT greenboy said:

Oct 24, 2021 0:44:52 GMT capitalomnibus said:

The 357 is never worth of a decker load unless other buses are around. If a route like the 48 could have been cut that carried far more then 357 is not justified whatsoever. With the 215 running along from the Central and so many buses between Bakers Arms and Walthamstow Central, it really is not needed. Easy way to prove this watch the amount of people that would continue their journey after Walthamstow towards Whipps Cross, it is hardly even worth a decker.

I agree with you about the 357, it's routes like this that should be the first to go when cuts are being made rather than randomly reducing frequencies.

If you're going to get rid of it, at least extend the 215 to Whipps Cross.

PVR cuts to the 13 and 133 saved more money compared to how much the 357 withdrawal would.

[LondonNorthern]

Oct 24, 2021 8:30:46 GMT LD71YLO (BE37054) said:

Oct 24, 2021 8:14:32 GMT greenboy said:

I agree with you about the 357, it's routes like this that should be the first to go when cuts are being made rather than randomly reducing frequencies.

If you're going to get rid of it, at least extend the 215 to Whipps Cross.

PVR cuts to the 13 and 133 saved more money compared to how much the 357 withdrawal would.

Yet those frequency reductions inconvenienced a heck of a load of people...

I can't help but think that perhaps it would've been better in 2016 for the 357 to have gone round Blackhorse Road/Higham Hill and the W11 have been left as a direct Chingford Hall to Walthamstow feeder route.

[greenboy]

Oct 24, 2021 8:30:46 GMT LD71YLO (BE37054) said:

Oct 24, 2021 8:14:32 GMT greenboy said:

I agree with you about the 357, it's routes like this that should be the first to go when cuts are being made rather than randomly reducing frequencies.

If you're going to get rid of it, at least extend the 215 to Whipps Cross.

PVR cuts to the 13 and 133 saved more money compared to how much the 357 withdrawal would.

I agree about the 215 to Whipps Cross and the W11 could perhaps be extended to Chingford Hatch with a Chingford Hall Estate being a double run?

I think it might be better to withdraw the 13 between Marble Arch and Victoria rather than reducing the frequency throughout, although no doubt usage has fallen because of the poor service under TT.

I'm not sure about reducing the 133, I think it might be better to axe the 415 and extend the 155 or 333 to Old Kent Road Tesco.

[WH241]

Oct 24, 2021 8:14:32 GMT greenboy said:

Oct 24, 2021 0:44:52 GMT capitalomnibus said:

The 357 is never worth of a decker load unless other buses are around. If a route like the 48 could have been cut that carried far more then 357 is not justified whatsoever. With the 215 running along from the Central and so many buses between Bakers Arms and Walthamstow Central, it really is not needed. Easy way to prove this watch the amount of people that would continue their journey after Walthamstow towards Whipps Cross, it is hardly even worth a decker.

I agree with you about the 357, it's routes like this that should be the first to go when cuts are being made rather than randomly reducing frequencies.

The frequency cuts are not random I doubt TfL just think I know let's cut route X to every 12 mins. Frequency cuts are not popular but would take then anytime over a whole route withdrawal!

You mention many times about Central London being quiet but then don't like frequency cuts!

[vjaska]

Oct 24, 2021 8:41:42 GMT greenboy said:

Oct 24, 2021 8:30:46 GMT LD71YLO (BE37054) said:

If you're going to get rid of it, at least extend the 215 to Whipps Cross.

PVR cuts to the 13 and 133 saved more money compared to how much the 357 withdrawal would.

I agree about the 215 to Whipps Cross and the W11 could perhaps be extended to Chingford Hatch with a Chingford Hall Estate being a double run?

I think it might be better to withdraw the 13 between Marble Arch and Victoria rather than reducing the frequency throughout, although no doubt usage has fallen because of the poor service under TT.

I'm not sure about reducing the 133, I think it might be better to axe the 415 and extend the 155 or 333 to Old Kent Road Tesco.

Once again your showing you have no idea about routes in my area. The 133 can cope with a frequency cut given how frequent it is in the first place - removing the 415 however breaks particular local links that neither the 155 or 333 can address and gives assistance to the 2 & 432 from Brixton