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Post by yunus on Jan 31, 2023 22:04:58 GMT
TfL's target is currently 2034, but TfL has stated that with Government support this could be brought forward to 2030. Government could also support the UK's bus manufacturers to increase production of zero-emisson vehicles by investing in production facilities and employment training programmes. The tender awards 2 days ago, did include two routes ending November 2030 with hybrids, there was also a route ending early 2031 (route 228 with new electric buses). TfL are effectively on the cusp of having to decide if they want to award tenders that run beyond 2030 that will be ok with hybrids or diesels. If the do, then need to put in change of vehicle provisions in case they change to a 2030 end date. I'm assuming 31/12/30, not their financial year end during 2030 which would be 31/3/30 (actually they have already issued contracts going past this date). Just my own feeling that from tranche 859 with only has route 380 now, TFL will then only award contracts with Zero Emission buses. It would definately be the end of 2030 or as others have mentioned it could be the financial year in March 2031.
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Post by southlondonbus on Feb 1, 2023 5:34:20 GMT
The tender awards 2 days ago, did include two routes ending November 2030 with hybrids, there was also a route ending early 2031 (route 228 with new electric buses). TfL are effectively on the cusp of having to decide if they want to award tenders that run beyond 2030 that will be ok with hybrids or diesels. If the do, then need to put in change of vehicle provisions in case they change to a 2030 end date. I'm assuming 31/12/30, not their financial year end during 2030 which would be 31/3/30 (actually they have already issued contracts going past this date). Just my own feeling that from tranche 859 with only has route 380 now, TFL will then only award contracts with Zero Emission buses. It would definately be the end of 2030 or as others have mentioned it could be the financial year in March 2031. Or offer only 5 year ones. Similar to what is happening with the LTs.
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Post by snowman on Feb 1, 2023 6:36:43 GMT
Just my own feeling that from tranche 859 with only has route 380 now, TFL will then only award contracts with Zero Emission buses. It would definately be the end of 2030 or as others have mentioned it could be the financial year in March 2031. Or offer only 5 year ones. Similar to what is happening with the LTs. Perhaps 7 year contracts for electric buses, but revert to 5 year for diesel and hybrid buses Bit of balancing act between not making it difficult to bring forward the zero emission from 2034-2030 if it is funded vs not creating huge bulge in contracts expiring with older buses in 2029-2030 Currently looks like 3000+ buses that are not zero emission will still be around at start of 2029. The latest TfL fleet audit shows diesel or hybrid buses 801 from 2015 979 from 2016 1018 from 2017 682 from 2018 382 from 2019 146 from 2020 Of the above 4000 buses (which would be under 14 years old) a quick check (not accurate count up) suggests no more than 1000 will have been replaced by start of 2029 which suggests to me 2031 is earliest (and that might be excluding school bus fleet which is phased out over extra year)
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Post by DE20106 on Feb 1, 2023 7:55:39 GMT
Or offer only 5 year ones. Similar to what is happening with the LTs. Perhaps 7 year contracts for electric buses, but revert to 5 year for diesel and hybrid buses Bit of balancing act between not making it difficult to bring forward the zero emission from 2034-2030 if it is funded vs not creating huge bulge in contracts expiring with older buses in 2029-2030 Currently looks like 3000+ buses that are not zero emission will still be around at start of 2029. The latest TfL fleet audit shows diesel or hybrid buses 801 from 2015 979 from 2016 1018 from 2017 682 from 2018 382 from 2019 146 from 2020 Of the above 4000 buses (which would be under 14 years old) a quick check (not accurate count up) suggests no more than 1000 will have been replaced by start of 2029 which suggests to me 2031 is earliest (and that might be excluding school bus fleet which is phased out over extra year) I think the most sensible thing TfL could do is just have arrangements for any non EV routes in London by 2029 to transfer to EVs. And then state yes all of our routes will be EVs but the timescale is dependent on the supply chain and getting in the new vehicles quick enough.
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Post by southlondon413 on Feb 1, 2023 8:00:59 GMT
Perhaps 7 year contracts for electric buses, but revert to 5 year for diesel and hybrid buses Bit of balancing act between not making it difficult to bring forward the zero emission from 2034-2030 if it is funded vs not creating huge bulge in contracts expiring with older buses in 2029-2030 Currently looks like 3000+ buses that are not zero emission will still be around at start of 2029. The latest TfL fleet audit shows diesel or hybrid buses 801 from 2015 979 from 2016 1018 from 2017 682 from 2018 382 from 2019 146 from 2020 Of the above 4000 buses (which would be under 14 years old) a quick check (not accurate count up) suggests no more than 1000 will have been replaced by start of 2029 which suggests to me 2031 is earliest (and that might be excluding school bus fleet which is phased out over extra year) I think the most sensible thing TfL could do is just have arrangements for any non EV routes in London by 2029 to transfer to EVs. And then state yes all of our routes will be EVs but the timescale is dependent on the supply chain and getting in the new vehicles quick enough. But that is a pretty hefty bill for the operators to pick up if they don’t retain the route, unless TfL is guaranteeing new contracts in a closed bid.
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Post by SILENCED on Feb 1, 2023 8:41:56 GMT
Perhaps 7 year contracts for electric buses, but revert to 5 year for diesel and hybrid buses Bit of balancing act between not making it difficult to bring forward the zero emission from 2034-2030 if it is funded vs not creating huge bulge in contracts expiring with older buses in 2029-2030 Currently looks like 3000+ buses that are not zero emission will still be around at start of 2029. The latest TfL fleet audit shows diesel or hybrid buses 801 from 2015 979 from 2016 1018 from 2017 682 from 2018 382 from 2019 146 from 2020 Of the above 4000 buses (which would be under 14 years old) a quick check (not accurate count up) suggests no more than 1000 will have been replaced by start of 2029 which suggests to me 2031 is earliest (and that might be excluding school bus fleet which is phased out over extra year) I think the most sensible thing TfL could do is just have arrangements for any non EV routes in London by 2029 to transfer to EVs. And then state yes all of our routes will be EVs but the timescale is dependent on the supply chain and getting in the new vehicles quick enough. So you would have TfL pay a significantly inflated figure for the last year of a contract, when there is no guarantee the electric buses will be operational during this period. Can imagine what questions will be asked.
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Post by vjaska on Feb 1, 2023 12:36:19 GMT
Perhaps 7 year contracts for electric buses, but revert to 5 year for diesel and hybrid buses Bit of balancing act between not making it difficult to bring forward the zero emission from 2034-2030 if it is funded vs not creating huge bulge in contracts expiring with older buses in 2029-2030 Currently looks like 3000+ buses that are not zero emission will still be around at start of 2029. The latest TfL fleet audit shows diesel or hybrid buses 801 from 2015 979 from 2016 1018 from 2017 682 from 2018 382 from 2019 146 from 2020 Of the above 4000 buses (which would be under 14 years old) a quick check (not accurate count up) suggests no more than 1000 will have been replaced by start of 2029 which suggests to me 2031 is earliest (and that might be excluding school bus fleet which is phased out over extra year) I think the most sensible thing TfL could do is just have arrangements for any non EV routes in London by 2029 to transfer to EVs. And then state yes all of our routes will be EVs but the timescale is dependent on the supply chain and getting in the new vehicles quick enough. Or just continue as now and have 2030 as an ambition with the mid 2030’s as the target
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Post by DE20106 on Feb 1, 2023 17:12:08 GMT
I think the most sensible thing TfL could do is just have arrangements for any non EV routes in London by 2029 to transfer to EVs. And then state yes all of our routes will be EVs but the timescale is dependent on the supply chain and getting in the new vehicles quick enough. Or just continue as now and have 2030 as an ambition with the mid 2030’s as the target Tbh yes that’s the probably the best way forward, but if they wanted to go for the ambitious 2030 target then yes every new contract in 2029 would have to be for new EVs, and have a clause saying this could be stifled slightly due to supply constraints.
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Post by southlondon413 on Feb 1, 2023 18:30:33 GMT
Or just continue as now and have 2030 as an ambition with the mid 2030’s as the target Tbh yes that’s the probably the best way forward, but if they wanted to go for the ambitious 2030 target then yes every new contract in 2029 would have to be for new EVs, and have a clause saying this could be stifled slightly due to supply constraints. 2029 is still some way off and technology is improving all the time. I mean it was only Monday that scientists announced that have solved a key issue in next-gen lithium batteries which should help unlock their long term viability. Then of course there was that breakthrough on nuclear fusion before Christmas. So I wouldn’t be too concerned about things at this stage. interestingengineering.com/science/next-gen-lithium-batteries
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Post by YX10FFN on Feb 22, 2023 22:41:56 GMT
When was it confirmed the 40 would get E400EVs?
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Post by ilovelondonbuses on Feb 22, 2023 22:44:03 GMT
When was it confirmed the 40 would get E400EVs? It was reported here a few days ago, the order was highlighted in the February 2023 edition of LOTS TLB.
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Post by southlondonbus on Feb 22, 2023 23:34:52 GMT
When was it confirmed the 40 would get E400EVs? It was reported here a few days ago, the order was highlighted in the February 2023 edition of LOTS TLB. There Still seems to be alot unconfirmed. Nothing official on the part 57 and 185, 213 and later in the year 157, the 86 and 199, 64 and 417 and unless iv missed it, the E2 and E8.
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Post by DE20106 on Feb 23, 2023 17:38:03 GMT
It was reported here a few days ago, the order was highlighted in the February 2023 edition of LOTS TLB. There Still seems to be alot unconfirmed. Nothing official on the part 57 and 185, 213 and later in the year 157, the 86 and 199, 64 and 417 and unless iv missed it, the E2 and E8. The fact the 40 has jumped the queue and announced to be getting E400EVs makes me think of these other unconfirmed ones won’t be, otherwise they’d have been announced with the 40. Let’s see
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Post by SILENCED on Feb 23, 2023 17:42:58 GMT
There Still seems to be alot unconfirmed. Nothing official on the part 57 and 185, 213 and later in the year 157, the 86 and 199, 64 and 417 and unless iv missed it, the E2 and E8. The fact the 40 has jumped the queue and announced to be getting E400EVs makes me think of these other unconfirmed ones won’t be, otherwise they’d have been announced with the 40. Let’s see How has it jumped the queue? It is the next order due for new deckers in contract start date order.
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Post by DE20106 on Feb 23, 2023 17:45:54 GMT
The fact the 40 has jumped the queue and announced to be getting E400EVs makes me think of these other unconfirmed ones won’t be, otherwise they’d have been announced with the 40. Let’s see How has it jumped the queue? It is the next order due fore deckers in contract start date order. Oh is it? I thought the D3, 366, 185 and 450 came before, doesn’t feel like it was awarded that recently
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