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Post by rogerout on Apr 22, 2023 22:14:33 GMT
Thread revival here as didn’t know where else to post. On the subject of dead running, what about Arriva London Dartford? The garage is just outside the M25, so the drivers obviously have to travel into the TFL zones to start their routes.
I remember vaguely in about 2011/2012, the 126 ( when Arriva had it) drivers had a black taxi that was used as a ferry service to transport the drivers from Bromley North back to their garage. Atleast that’s what I presumed it was used for.
Also around that time, Arriva operated the 286 route that goes from the Queen Mary’s Hospital, Sidcup to Greenwich.
Again, I presume that the drivers had to travel dead from Dartford to Greenwich and vice versa? That’s quite a bit of dead running, especially contending with the frequent problems the Dartford / M25 area has to deal with.
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Post by rogerout on Apr 22, 2023 22:18:15 GMT
I’ll also add when Metrobus operated the 75 and 54 routes from Beddington Lane , Croydon. Going from Beddington Lane to Woolwich ( 54 route) is a fairly long way. And so was running to Catford from there too I’d imagine.
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Post by ronnie on Apr 22, 2023 23:51:28 GMT
Thread revival here as didn’t know where else to post. On the subject of dead running, what about Arriva London Dartford? The garage is just outside the M25, so the drivers obviously have to travel into the TFL zones to start their routes. I remember vaguely in about 2011/2012, the 126 ( when Arriva had it) drivers had a black taxi that was used as a ferry service to transport the drivers from Bromley North back to their garage. Atleast that’s what I presumed it was used for. Also around that time, Arriva operated the 286 route that goes from the Queen Mary’s Hospital, Sidcup to Greenwich. Again, I presume that the drivers had to travel dead from Dartford to Greenwich and vice versa? That’s quite a bit of dead running, especially contending with the frequent problems the Dartford / M25 area has to deal with. Arriva still do it with the 335 and a pretty good job at that. Of course North Greenwich is easier than Greenwich town centre owing to the A2 but sidcup is pretty quick from dartford plus the accursed cycle Lane hadn’t been made on Trafalgar way till that time
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Post by northlondon83 on Apr 23, 2023 10:07:59 GMT
Presumably Tolworth to Coulsdon/Caterham on the Hill and South Mimms to South Woodford/Loughton must be two of the longest
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Post by Busboy105 on Apr 23, 2023 11:45:33 GMT
Grays to Leytonstone for the 66
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Post by londonbuses on Apr 23, 2023 11:46:26 GMT
One of the obvious ones is the X26 dead runs from Heathrow Central to Croydon Garage.
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Post by wirewiper on Apr 23, 2023 12:01:24 GMT
At one time, the 140 had no dead mileage at all (discounting running to and from stands), due to three factors:
1) Operating garage (HD) at one end of the route. 2) Strong demand for early arrivals and late departures from staff working at Heathrow Airport, at the other end of the route. 3) 24-hour service
Effectively the daytime frequency started earlier and ended earlier at the Harrow Weald end and all buses operated a rounder in service.
Even on Christmas Eve, the last 140 left HD around midnight and the same bus operated the last departure from Heathrow around 01.00, and the service restarted with the 03.50 from HD on Boxing Day which also operated the first departure from Heathrow around 05.00.
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Post by rift on Apr 23, 2023 12:41:14 GMT
Thread revival here as didn’t know where else to post. On the subject of dead running, what about Arriva London Dartford? The garage is just outside the M25, so the drivers obviously have to travel into the TFL zones to start their routes. I remember vaguely in about 2011/2012, the 126 ( when Arriva had it) drivers had a black taxi that was used as a ferry service to transport the drivers from Bromley North back to their garage. Atleast that’s what I presumed it was used for. Also around that time, Arriva operated the 286 route that goes from the Queen Mary’s Hospital, Sidcup to Greenwich. Again, I presume that the drivers had to travel dead from Dartford to Greenwich and vice versa? That’s quite a bit of dead running, especially contending with the frequent problems the Dartford / M25 area has to deal with. DT is within the M25, just to the immediate north of Dartford station.
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Post by wirewiper on Apr 23, 2023 12:51:04 GMT
Thread revival here as didn’t know where else to post. On the subject of dead running, what about Arriva London Dartford? The garage is just outside the M25, so the drivers obviously have to travel into the TFL zones to start their routes. I remember vaguely in about 2011/2012, the 126 ( when Arriva had it) drivers had a black taxi that was used as a ferry service to transport the drivers from Bromley North back to their garage. Atleast that’s what I presumed it was used for. Also around that time, Arriva operated the 286 route that goes from the Queen Mary’s Hospital, Sidcup to Greenwich. Again, I presume that the drivers had to travel dead from Dartford to Greenwich and vice versa? That’s quite a bit of dead running, especially contending with the frequent problems the Dartford / M25 area has to deal with. DT is within the M25, Dartford itself is very much part of the continuous Greater London Built-up Area (even though administratively it is part of Kent) and red bus routes operate into the town - two of which are actually operated by DT.
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Post by TB123 on Apr 23, 2023 14:48:29 GMT
I’ll also add when Metrobus operated the 75 and 54 routes from Beddington Lane , Croydon. Going from Beddington Lane to Woolwich ( 54 route) is a fairly long way. And so was running to Catford from there too I’d imagine. 7 of 13 boards on the 75 ran light to Lewisham from C depot, 6 running light back. 10 of 14 on the 54 ran light to Woolwich, 9 running light back also. I think they were given up to 58 minutes to get to Woolwich and up to 42 minutes to get to Leiwsham. Some quite hefty dead mileage but despite that performance was above target. Interestingly the 54 and 75 at C were not far off 24 hour operations in practice, the first 54 signing on at 0312 and the last signing off at 0243, with the first 75 signing on at 0310 and the last signing off at 0246. 202 at C was another one with lots of dead mileage and long operating hours, 11 of 14 running light over to Blackheath and the first duty signing on at 0350, the last signing off at 0213
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Post by rogerout on Apr 23, 2023 18:03:08 GMT
I’ll also add when Metrobus operated the 75 and 54 routes from Beddington Lane , Croydon. Going from Beddington Lane to Woolwich ( 54 route) is a fairly long way. And so was running to Catford from there too I’d imagine. 7 of 13 boards on the 75 ran light to Lewisham from C depot, 6 running light back. 10 of 14 on the 54 ran light to Woolwich, 9 running light back also. I think they were given up to 58 minutes to get to Woolwich and up to 42 minutes to get to Leiwsham. Some quite hefty dead mileage but despite that performance was above target. Interestingly the 54 and 75 at C were not far off 24 hour operations in practice, the first 54 signing on at 0312 and the last signing off at 0243, with the first 75 signing on at 0310 and the last signing off at 0246. 202 at C was another one with lots of dead mileage and long operating hours, 11 of 14 running light over to Blackheath and the first duty signing on at 0350, the last signing off at 0213 Yes Metrobus did run those routes well, although Stagecoach got them back in 2014. Metrobus ran the 54 and I think the 75 from Orpington originally. They then transferred the routes to Croydon in around 2012. Then in 2014, both routes returned to Catford. Perhaps Metrobus didn’t want to operate those routes again, I’ve no idea.
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Post by southlondon413 on Apr 23, 2023 18:10:46 GMT
7 of 13 boards on the 75 ran light to Lewisham from C depot, 6 running light back. 10 of 14 on the 54 ran light to Woolwich, 9 running light back also. I think they were given up to 58 minutes to get to Woolwich and up to 42 minutes to get to Leiwsham. Some quite hefty dead mileage but despite that performance was above target. Interestingly the 54 and 75 at C were not far off 24 hour operations in practice, the first 54 signing on at 0312 and the last signing off at 0243, with the first 75 signing on at 0310 and the last signing off at 0246. 202 at C was another one with lots of dead mileage and long operating hours, 11 of 14 running light over to Blackheath and the first duty signing on at 0350, the last signing off at 0213 Yes Metrobus did run those routes well, although Stagecoach got them back in 2014. Metrobus ran the 54 and I think the 75 from Orpington originally. They then transferred the routes to Croydon in around 2012. Then in 2014, both routes returned to Catford. Perhaps Metrobus didn’t want to operate those routes again, I’ve no idea. The 75 was always based at C under Metrobus. The 54 started at MB and moved to C in May 2012.
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Post by cl54 on Apr 23, 2023 19:06:13 GMT
When I first started at London Transport in the early 70s I was taught that end on allocations were a bad thing. Ideally a route should run from a garage in the middle of the route. There were exceptions like the very long 12 route. At the time this operated from several garages.
Nowadays the tendering process means that some allocations just seem crazy.
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Post by WH241 on Apr 23, 2023 19:12:32 GMT
Some older examples.
DX and SF had a allocation on the 68 in 1999.
The 1 ran from DM in the 90s. Metrobus also ran a Romford mobility route for a short time back in the early 00s but can't remember the route.
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Post by cardinal on Apr 23, 2023 20:12:36 GMT
There are tens of examples. Seemed to become prevalent upon tendering. Garage trips were no more. Metroline still have some though, particularly on the 43.
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