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Post by Deleted on Dec 17, 2020 21:22:18 GMT
I say it, on the basis of huge admiration for NHS staff who care for people with covid and have been getting on with it. I had to go to a hospital appointment yesterday. I watched as the staff went about their business as normal. Caring for people with covid. For ambulance crews, paramedics, bus drivers, shop assistants, tube staff, street cleaners, care home staff, doctor surgery receptionists, police officers, the list goes on and on. There is no coherent plan for anything because this hasn’t happened since 1918. Plans will change as the virus changes and does things we perhaps didn’t expect it to. This is however no excuse to say you don't like teachers moaning. While teachers are not at the "front line", they are the key workers that have probably had to make the biggest adaptations. Other key workers while exposing themselves to more risk haven't had to change their whole lifestyle to fit around the new ins and outs of the job. It's slightly ridiculous I think to say you don't think teachers should moan as a result. You mention the NHS staff get on with it, but don't teachers do that too? You're forgetting how hard it is to keep students socially distanced in a classroom, whether they be Year 13s or Nursery students. You forget how hard it is to adapt a lesson from an in class session that's interactive to an online session where the children are doing nothing but staring at a screen all day. I think there needs to also be a moment spared for all the teachers of Y11 and Y13s during the height of the pandemic, they were all being bombarded with questions left right and centre from students and parents alike with no answer themselves to go off. Their predictions ended up sealing the future of students and they really would have been tested in juggling ethics and emotions when predicting them - I don't think anyone can ever appreciate how hard that is unless you've done it yourself. This also still continues, teachers still don't know what the future holds. Exams are going ahead in England but what will they contain? Students have missed out on learning and different situations each child has at home will have impacted how efficiently they'd have been able to study. The inequality they'll have to deal with will place a lot of work on them. Many teachers can also have their whole class or half the class self isolating at any time, they need to prepare to provide Zoom and in person lessons which is really tricky. They don't really know what each day is going to be like and how many students they'll have to balance in the classroom. Can we please also appreciate how under-paid teachers are for the work they do? They get paid for the hours they teach with an hour either side, they don't get paid for the umpteen hours of planning they do. The general guideline is 1 hour of teaching can require the same amount of time in planning and in many cases taking even longer. They can very well complain if they want to and I think teachers and all support staff in schools are national heroes just as much as NHS staff are. If anyone here is a teacher or school support staff, from me here's a big thank you for all the work you've done! Excuse ? I don’t need to excuse my opinion. Again, a long list above of worries, problems, anxieties .... I’m sure everyone could write a similar list. Best to just get on with it.
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Post by vjaska on Dec 17, 2020 23:05:49 GMT
The TfL link did not have and route number changes, or notes of routes being cut or added. However it does not go into detail about the PVRs of the extras. For GoAhead there should be 1 or 2 buses spare from shortened 493, but other Operators (eg Stagecoach) brought in some buses from outside London to help out on school extras. I struggle with concept that GoAhead Group has no spare buses nationally so would have to hire in buses. Yes, SE192 and SE193 are currently spares so wouldn't be surprised if these move on loan to another garage. As someone has previously suggested, if the SEN's for the 469/B12 can't be released on time, then they could loan the existing ENL's until school extras are no longer required. Only one was made redundant as the 493 had a -1 PVR decrease as part of the Richmond changes. I believe the SEN's are only for the 469 with the B12 using the now ex 246 Enviro 200's plus some unspecified Enviro 200's and I guess SE193 could be a possible transfer to the B12 but I stress that's merely a guess.
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Post by vjaska on Dec 17, 2020 23:17:14 GMT
I'm sorry, but who are you to say teachers' jobs have been made easier in the past 9 months?! Before I get expletive-laden in my response, you've got no clue about how teachers have had to adapt rather rapidly to the Government's regulations, be it from plans with over a week's notice or a day's notice. And before you say "everyone's had to do that", not everyone teaches the next generation of kids. A pub owner doesn't have to worry about if someone's slurring their words and doesn't have to help that person with skills they struggle to live daily life with as a normal human being. It's not a contest but it's evident that healthcare professionals are at the brunt of this pandemic. Following that, pretty much every other key worker has had the same headache from this whole ordeal. And unlike deciding if people can't get peeed past 11pm, the fate of children's educational careers rest mostly with teachers and not with Downing Street. It's just a massive shame that government doesn't have a coherent battle plan for the education sector, as arguably the pandemic has disproportionately affected the young as well as the elderly. Right now my mum is tutoring a child of hers through Zoom, complaining that it isn't the same as she can't help physically point out where the child is going wrong in her workings. I rather somebody complain about something they're passionate about; and with a vocation like teaching, any complaints are selfless and not selfish. But just for laughs and giggles, what is it that you think teachers are moaning about? I say it, on the basis of huge admiration for NHS staff who care for people with covid and have been getting on with it. I had to go to a hospital appointment yesterday. I watched as the staff went about their business as normal. Caring for people with covid. For ambulance crews, paramedics, bus drivers, shop assistants, tube staff, street cleaners, care home staff, doctor surgery receptionists, police officers, the list goes on and on. I do think the teachers have raised valuable concerns and I hope they get the support they need but I also want to highlight something you've mentioned which is that list of people - some have received support, some have received very little and some like retail staff have received none and those of us who work in supermarkets currently work in the most infectious place to pick the virus up. We are probably the lowest paid on the list alongside the street cleaner, we've had a ton of we get little fanfare and on many occasions are looked upon as pure scum - it's all very well the government picking and choosing which of us are key workers but put your money where your mouth is otherwise remove us from that list.
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Post by Eastlondoner62 on Dec 17, 2020 23:31:49 GMT
I say it, on the basis of huge admiration for NHS staff who care for people with covid and have been getting on with it. I had to go to a hospital appointment yesterday. I watched as the staff went about their business as normal. Caring for people with covid. For ambulance crews, paramedics, bus drivers, shop assistants, tube staff, street cleaners, care home staff, doctor surgery receptionists, police officers, the list goes on and on. I do think the teachers have raised valuable concerns and I hope they get the support they need but I also want to highlight something you've mentioned which is that list of people - some have received support, some have received very little and some like retail staff have received none and those of us who work in supermarkets currently work in the most infectious place to pick the virus up. We are probably the lowest paid on the list alongside the street cleaner, we've had a ton of we get little fanfare and on many occasions are looked upon as pure scum - it's all very well the government picking and choosing which of us are key workers but put your money where your mouth is otherwise remove us from that list. I do find it funny that the retail sector has just been totally left to collapse when the government keep giving themselves pay rises. I don't see the government handing out PPE to retail staff nor do I even see an increase in minimum wage anything above inflation for a change. But oh well I hope the clapping of hands makes up for it. I do dream that one day someone really does pass a law where the public need to be consulted to allow elected MP pay rises anything above inflation. They do deserve it, will never know what normal people go through.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 17, 2020 23:57:15 GMT
I do think the teachers have raised valuable concerns and I hope they get the support they need but I also want to highlight something you've mentioned which is that list of people - some have received support, some have received very little and some like retail staff have received none and those of us who work in supermarkets currently work in the most infectious place to pick the virus up. We are probably the lowest paid on the list alongside the street cleaner, we've had a ton of we get little fanfare and on many occasions are looked upon as pure scum - it's all very well the government picking and choosing which of us are key workers but put your money where your mouth is otherwise remove us from that list. I do find it funny that the retail sector has just been totally left to collapse when the government keep giving themselves pay rises. I don't see the government handing out PPE to retail staff nor do I even see an increase in minimum wage anything above inflation for a change. But oh well I hope the clapping of hands makes up for it. I do dream that one day someone really does pass a law where the public need to be consulted to allow elected MP pay rises anything above inflation. They do deserve it, will never know what normal people go through. MPs pay is determined by the IPSA which was established by parliament by law after the 2009 expenses scandals. They can be held to account by anyone, including the public. www.theipsa.org.uk
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Post by vjaska on Dec 18, 2020 1:42:36 GMT
I do think the teachers have raised valuable concerns and I hope they get the support they need but I also want to highlight something you've mentioned which is that list of people - some have received support, some have received very little and some like retail staff have received none and those of us who work in supermarkets currently work in the most infectious place to pick the virus up. We are probably the lowest paid on the list alongside the street cleaner, we get little fanfare and on many occasions are looked upon as pure scum - it's all very well the government picking and choosing which of us are key workers but put your money where your mouth is otherwise remove us from that list. I do find it funny that the retail sector has just been totally left to collapse when the government keep giving themselves pay rises. I don't see the government handing out PPE to retail staff nor do I even see an increase in minimum wage anything above inflation for a change. But oh well I hope the clapping of hands makes up for it. I do dream that one day someone really does pass a law where the public need to be consulted to allow elected MP pay rises anything above inflation. They do deserve it, will never know what normal people go through. The minimum wage rises we had over the last few years has had no benefit to me and my company continues to ignore the London living wage where I would at least receive a roughly £1 increase to my wage which is better than nothing. It's great that the NHS are getting their pay rise and rightly so but they aren't the only one who kept things ticking - either acknowledge everyone or don't bother.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 18, 2020 2:31:11 GMT
I say it, on the basis of huge admiration for NHS staff who care for people with covid and have been getting on with it. I had to go to a hospital appointment yesterday. I watched as the staff went about their business as normal. Caring for people with covid. For ambulance crews, paramedics, bus drivers, shop assistants, tube staff, street cleaners, care home staff, doctor surgery receptionists, police officers, the list goes on and on. I do think the teachers have raised valuable concerns and I hope they get the support they need but I also want to highlight something you've mentioned which is that list of people - some have received support, some have received very little and some like retail staff have received none and those of us who work in supermarkets currently work in the most infectious place to pick the virus up. We are probably the lowest paid on the list alongside the street cleaner, we've had a ton of we get little fanfare and on many occasions are looked upon as pure scum - it's all very well the government picking and choosing which of us are key workers but put your money where your mouth is otherwise remove us from that list. Absolutely, I wrote that list off the top of my head , of course anyone who works in that industry as well. I don’t know why some over sensitive people on here jumped about because I said I was fed up with moaning teachers. The broader point I was making , and stick to 100%, is you, me, bus drivers, again the list goes on.... we’ve all gone to work one day and found goalposts moved, guidances changed, more work, more aggression, non compliance. Just because they’re teachers doesn’t make their particular moans any more , or less, valid. It’s just we read and hear more about them. And I would agree with you, supermarkets must be more hazardous to work and of course the pay is much less , but that will be open to more debate, so I just say I agree with you about that.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 18, 2020 7:41:03 GMT
I do find it funny that the retail sector has just been totally left to collapse when the government keep giving themselves pay rises. I don't see the government handing out PPE to retail staff nor do I even see an increase in minimum wage anything above inflation for a change. But oh well I hope the clapping of hands makes up for it. I do dream that one day someone really does pass a law where the public need to be consulted to allow elected MP pay rises anything above inflation. They do deserve it, will never know what normal people go through. The minimum wage rises we had over the last few years has had no benefit to me and my company continues to ignore the London living wage where I would at least receive a roughly £1 increase to my wage which is better than nothing. It's great that the NHS are getting their pay rise and rightly so but they aren't the only one who kept things ticking - either acknowledge everyone or don't bother. The problem with that is, inevitably if they pay more they will start to reduce staff numbers to keep the wage bill the same. So you may find where you had 10 staff stocking today you might only have 8 next year. You won’t notice though as they won’t sack anyone, they’ll just leave and not get replaced. It happened when I worked for Boots, went from 3 and half staff to just my friend and a bunch of Xmas temps after I left and a couple of other guys did as well.
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Post by wirewiper on Dec 18, 2020 12:33:28 GMT
Needless to say, teaching staff and unions have reacted angrily to this. This is partly because the lateness of the announcement leaves schools with lots of planning and organisation when most break up by tomorrow and some are already closed. What also rankles is that they now have to prepare online learning, despite the Government having resisted calls to allow more online learning and actually threatening schools with legal action if they wanted to close for the last week of this term. Pleased school extras staying. Getting slightly bored of teachers moaning. I don’t know of any job that’s got any easier at the moment. We could all moan about it, but we seem to hear more moaning from the teachers than anyone else. This is what Polly Toynbee has written in The Guardian about Gavin Williamson's plan for mass-testing in schools, which was announced without consulting schools and right at the end of the Autumn term. Read it and you might understand why they are complaining just now. ************************************* The decision [ to have a staggered return] comes after Williamson dropped another surprise without consulting schools. The idea is to prevent every pupil and teacher in contact with someone who has tested positive for Covid having to self-isolate; instead those without symptoms will be tested at school every day for seven days after being identified as a close contact. Excellent, if that prevents lost school days for those who never develop the virus – but it reveals his determined ignorance about how schools are struggling. “This needs a mobile unit arriving in the playground, with people to administer the tests and the records,” says Robin Bevan, headteacher at Southend High School for Boys in Essex. He calculates that such logistics would require 100,000 testers to cover every school and college. But no such help is coming: schools will be left to do it themselves. They get a 15-minute training video, PPE and lateral-flow tests that produce an answer in 30 minutes. Where is the extra space needed to set up isolated bays? Bevan has already purchased two marquees for extra distancing purposes, but now the tent company has run out. Where are the resources for extra staff members to run five-minute testing slots (allowing for cleaning)? And every child tested will need administratively cumbersome parental permission. No money comes with these tests: Bevan estimates the cheapest extra staff would cost £7,500 a week. He already has a £250,000 deficit, with a 20% cut since 2010; the national average cut is 8%. Covid has cost £60,000 due to lost revenue from hiring out school buildings, and opened windows adding a third to heating costs. Neither parents nor ministers see what schools do behind the scenes to stay open. When any Covid case is identified, everyone they shared a class with for the previous two days has to be contacted. This involves checking timetables and registers, with each case taking three staff two hours to do that parental contacting. In the first lockdown Bevan’s school delivered 50,000 virtual lessons, and just a few parents complained about lack of personal contact with teachers. Some unfairly drew comparisons with private schools that taught a full timetable of lessons, despite having smaller classes and three times more money per child. “They forget, in a secondary school, a maths teacher has 250 pupils, humanities teach 350, PE, art and DT around 500.” He has 24 staff and some 500 students self-isolating today, so teaching both online and in person doubles what some teachers do. That’s why staff are arriving long before school and staying long after – keeping records, alerting families and, most important, says this headteacher, spending time checking in on the large number of pupils they worry about. Bevan has maxed out his school’s pupil premiums on laptops for every student without one, as the government has failed to provide those it promised. A Knowsley school that was promised 1,065 received just 282. If anyone thinks teachers don’t care, listen to Bevan saying that he is “on the verge of tears” when he has to go in to tell a class they must to go home for two weeks due to a Covid case. “The children are so upset at leaving.” Government teacher-bashing, echoed by the rightwing press, is part knee-jerk cultural dislike, part disguise for education cuts. Here’s a Sun columnist this week: “Is there any profession in the country which has had an easier, stress-free nine months than the teaching profession?” The public disagrees. Ipsos Mori’s Veracity Index finds that people regard teachers as fourth most trusted to tell the truth of 25 professions, just after nurses, doctors and dentists. Journalists are fourth from last, politicians last. Teachers have provided frontline work every day during this pandemic, but their pay is frozen. Experienced teachers have lost 15% in real terms since 2010, says their union. Britain has always undervalued education, and it has always paid the price of doing so. “Teachers shouldn’t be heroes,” Bevan says. “You only need heroes in an emergency.” www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/dec/17/teachers-covid-mishandling-pandemic-government
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Post by Deleted on Dec 18, 2020 13:47:39 GMT
Pleased school extras staying. Getting slightly bored of teachers moaning. I don’t know of any job that’s got any easier at the moment. We could all moan about it, but we seem to hear more moaning from the teachers than anyone else. This is what Polly Toynbee has written in The Guardian about Gavin Williamson's plan for mass-testing in schools, which was announced without consulting schools and right at the end of the Autumn term. Read it and you might understand why they are complaining just now. ************************************* The decision [ to have a staggered return] comes after Williamson dropped another surprise without consulting schools. The idea is to prevent every pupil and teacher in contact with someone who has tested positive for Covid having to self-isolate; instead those without symptoms will be tested at school every day for seven days after being identified as a close contact. Excellent, if that prevents lost school days for those who never develop the virus – but it reveals his determined ignorance about how schools are struggling. “This needs a mobile unit arriving in the playground, with people to administer the tests and the records,” says Robin Bevan, headteacher at Southend High School for Boys in Essex. He calculates that such logistics would require 100,000 testers to cover every school and college. But no such help is coming: schools will be left to do it themselves. They get a 15-minute training video, PPE and lateral-flow tests that produce an answer in 30 minutes. Where is the extra space needed to set up isolated bays? Bevan has already purchased two marquees for extra distancing purposes, but now the tent company has run out. Where are the resources for extra staff members to run five-minute testing slots (allowing for cleaning)? And every child tested will need administratively cumbersome parental permission. No money comes with these tests: Bevan estimates the cheapest extra staff would cost £7,500 a week. He already has a £250,000 deficit, with a 20% cut since 2010; the national average cut is 8%. Covid has cost £60,000 due to lost revenue from hiring out school buildings, and opened windows adding a third to heating costs. Neither parents nor ministers see what schools do behind the scenes to stay open. When any Covid case is identified, everyone they shared a class with for the previous two days has to be contacted. This involves checking timetables and registers, with each case taking three staff two hours to do that parental contacting. In the first lockdown Bevan’s school delivered 50,000 virtual lessons, and just a few parents complained about lack of personal contact with teachers. Some unfairly drew comparisons with private schools that taught a full timetable of lessons, despite having smaller classes and three times more money per child. “They forget, in a secondary school, a maths teacher has 250 pupils, humanities teach 350, PE, art and DT around 500.” He has 24 staff and some 500 students self-isolating today, so teaching both online and in person doubles what some teachers do. That’s why staff are arriving long before school and staying long after – keeping records, alerting families and, most important, says this headteacher, spending time checking in on the large number of pupils they worry about. Bevan has maxed out his school’s pupil premiums on laptops for every student without one, as the government has failed to provide those it promised. A Knowsley school that was promised 1,065 received just 282. If anyone thinks teachers don’t care, listen to Bevan saying that he is “on the verge of tears” when he has to go in to tell a class they must to go home for two weeks due to a Covid case. “The children are so upset at leaving.” Government teacher-bashing, echoed by the rightwing press, is part knee-jerk cultural dislike, part disguise for education cuts. Here’s a Sun columnist this week: “Is there any profession in the country which has had an easier, stress-free nine months than the teaching profession?” The public disagrees. Ipsos Mori’s Veracity Index finds that people regard teachers as fourth most trusted to tell the truth of 25 professions, just after nurses, doctors and dentists. Journalists are fourth from last, politicians last. Teachers have provided frontline work every day during this pandemic, but their pay is frozen. Experienced teachers have lost 15% in real terms since 2010, says their union. Britain has always undervalued education, and it has always paid the price of doing so. “Teachers shouldn’t be heroes,” Bevan says. “You only need heroes in an emergency.” www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/dec/17/teachers-covid-mishandling-pandemic-governmentAgain, whilst not wishing to draw comparisons, but I will. I appreciate these new plans are evolving so to speak, but as a parent I’m relieved testing will take place. It will prevent hundreds from falling ill. My profession is front line key worker status also. No testing. Massive illness levels now, including many of my close friends. But no routine testing. Indeed we have been told not to get tests (unless symptomatic) . Pay frozen. Day to day job is in disarray. No time off over Christmas or the New Year. This may read as moaning, but I’m not. We have to keep plodding on, just as bus drivers will throughout the season in poo weather, with an ungrateful public, exposed to virus, with crap pay for them. I admire the teachers. But we have to grin and bear it.
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Post by YY13VKP on Dec 19, 2020 12:31:00 GMT
It appears that the R8's school extra workings were withdrawn after October half term, not a surprise really as they never served any purpose.
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Post by galwhv69 on Dec 19, 2020 12:55:41 GMT
It appears that the R8's school extra workings were withdrawn after October half term, not a surprise really as they never served any purpose. Wasn't this replaced by the V358 working?
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Post by LondonNorthern on Dec 20, 2020 14:17:23 GMT
Yes, SE192 and SE193 are currently spares so wouldn't be surprised if these move on loan to another garage. As someone has previously suggested, if the SEN's for the 469/B12 can't be released on time, then they could loan the existing ENL's until school extras are no longer required. Only one was made redundant as the 493 had a -1 PVR decrease as part of the Richmond changes. I believe the SEN's are only for the 469 with the B12 using the now ex 246 Enviro 200's plus some unspecified Enviro 200's and I guess SE193 could be a possible transfer to the B12 but I stress that's merely a guess. I think SEN44-57 are for both routes, the 469 has a TVR of 10 so it would take up SEN44-53 & Route B12 has a TVR of 8 so it would take up SEN54-57 & 4 ex 246 Enviro200s. I could possibly see SE193 instead move to the 359, it has very similar aged buses and it could replace SE19 post-school extras.
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Post by LondonNorthern on Dec 20, 2020 14:19:30 GMT
I do think the teachers have raised valuable concerns and I hope they get the support they need but I also want to highlight something you've mentioned which is that list of people - some have received support, some have received very little and some like retail staff have received none and those of us who work in supermarkets currently work in the most infectious place to pick the virus up. We are probably the lowest paid on the list alongside the street cleaner, we've had a ton of we get little fanfare and on many occasions are looked upon as pure scum - it's all very well the government picking and choosing which of us are key workers but put your money where your mouth is otherwise remove us from that list. I do find it funny that the retail sector has just been totally left to collapse when the government keep giving themselves pay rises. I don't see the government handing out PPE to retail staff nor do I even see an increase in minimum wage anything above inflation for a change. But oh well I hope the clapping of hands makes up for it. I do dream that one day someone really does pass a law where the public need to be consulted to allow elected MP pay rises anything above inflation. They do deserve it, will never know what normal people go through. I've always wondered if the government were given only 80% of their pay if they would have a completely different response to the virus.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 20, 2020 14:19:49 GMT
Only one was made redundant as the 493 had a -1 PVR decrease as part of the Richmond changes. I believe the SEN's are only for the 469 with the B12 using the now ex 246 Enviro 200's plus some unspecified Enviro 200's and I guess SE193 could be a possible transfer to the B12 but I stress that's merely a guess. I think SEN44-57 are for both routes, the 469 has a TVR of 10 so it would take up SEN44-53 & Route B12 has a TVR of 8 so it would take up SEN54-57 & 4 ex 246 Enviro200s. I could possibly see SE193 instead move to the 359, it has very similar aged buses and it could replace SE19 post-school extras. As I understand it the lower numbered ones are for BX and the higher numbered ones for MG with 4 due for BX and 10 due for MG.
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