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Post by M1104 on Aug 1, 2022 19:59:04 GMT
Not Canada Water - North Greenwich? Would have thought that’s similar Canary Wharf-North Greenwich 53mph (85kph) How about Bermondsey to London Bridge?
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Post by Dstock7080 on Aug 1, 2022 20:34:20 GMT
How about Bermondsey to London Bridge? Same as quoted above, eastbound and westbound the same 56mph (90kph)
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Post by capitalomnibus on Aug 1, 2022 23:15:50 GMT
Some sections of the Victoria line seems faster than that. i.e Kings Cross to Highbury & Islington and Seven Sisters to Finsbury Park. Looking at the data sheets, Victoria is max 50mph (80kph) in ATO. Jubilee has sections of 56mph (90kph); London Bridge-Bermondsey Bermondsey-Canada Water Canada Water-Canary Wharf is there any speed limit on the Underground network above 60mph? If the Victoria max is 50mph in ato, what would be max unrestricted. I am sure this could potentially be one of the fastest if there was no restrictions and left in a standard manual driving mode on a test track.
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Post by Dstock7080 on Aug 2, 2022 7:14:15 GMT
is there any speed limit on the Underground network above 60mph? Not currently. Metropolitan is signed as “60mph” maximum in manual operation. District and H&C are likely to be the first to once again top 60mph, when CBTC is extended in January.
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Post by Eastlondoner62 on Aug 2, 2022 9:22:53 GMT
is there any speed limit on the Underground network above 60mph? Not currently. Metropolitan is signed as “60mph” maximum in manual operation. District and H&C are likely to be the first to once again top 60mph, when CBTC is extended in January. Its funny that arguably the slowest lines in London will end up becoming the fastest.
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Post by Alex on Aug 2, 2022 10:01:13 GMT
is there any speed limit on the Underground network above 60mph? As DStock7080 says for the purposes of trains being operated and the speeds you can experience there isn’t. However, for trivia value there’s one speed limit oddity and one potential. The odd one is the highest speed sign on LUL is 70mph north of Amersham - but this applies to northbound/down Chiltern Railways trains on their way to Great Missenden. The sign is used as a marker by some Met drivers performing the shunt move via the northbound line from Amersham platform 1 to platform 2. The potential is 62.5 mph on outer sections of the Central line - the ATP target speed will display 100kph in quite a few areas but the maximum ATO speed is 85kph. However, if the train is being operated in Coded Manual the 100kph can be achieved (the maximum safe speed before the brakes will apply is around 103kph) - the rules are that in all cases the 85kph shouldn’t be exceeded. So in that case the system is capable of delivering a higher speed but it’s just there in the background - and a speed value higher than 60mph is displayed. There are discussions every now and again to get the 1992 stock back to 100kph as designed, probably been explored as part of the CLIP upgrade /DC motor replacement.
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Post by capitalomnibus on Aug 2, 2022 10:07:59 GMT
is there any speed limit on the Underground network above 60mph? As DStock7080 says for the purposes of trains being operated and the speeds you can experience there isn’t. However, for trivia value there’s one speed limit oddity and one potential. The odd one is the highest speed sign on LUL is 70mph north of Amersham - but this applies to northbound/down Chiltern Railways trains on their way to Great Missenden. The sign is used as a marker by some Met drivers performing the shunt move via the northbound line from Amersham platform 1 to platform 2. The potential is 62.5 mph on outer sections of the Central line - the ATP target speed will display 100kph in quite a few areas but the maximum ATO speed is 85kph. However, if the train is being operated in Coded Manual the 100kph can be achieved (the maximum safe speed before the brakes will apply is around 103kph) - the rules are that in all cases the 85kph shouldn’t be exceeded. So in that case the system is capable of delivering a higher speed but it’s just there in the background - and a speed value higher than 60mph is displayed. There are discussions every now and again to get the 1992 stock back to 100kph as designed, probably been explored as part of the CLIP upgrade /DC motor replacement. So if it shows a target speed of 100 km/h then why would a driver that is not in ATO not go to that speed. Surely it must have been done. I have been on some trains between South Woodford and Woodford and at times, the train feels as though it is going faster than 50mph. So does the drivers speed display show in km/h instead of mph?
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Post by capitalomnibus on Aug 2, 2022 10:11:22 GMT
is there any speed limit on the Underground network above 60mph? Not currently. Metropolitan is signed as “60mph” maximum in manual operation. District and H&C are likely to be the first to once again top 60mph, when CBTC is extended in January. That is shocking imo. Especially the District, there are long straight between Barking and Upminster where speed way past 60 can be achieved which is seen on parallel National Rail tracks. Also a few of the platforms on the section to Upminster has some very long platforms, was the District ever operating the equivalent of 9 car trains in the past.
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Post by Alex on Aug 2, 2022 10:34:56 GMT
So if it shows a target speed of 100 km/h then why would a driver that is not in ATO not go to that speed. Surely it must have been done. I have been on some trains between South Woodford and Woodford and at times, the train feels as though it is going faster than 50mph. So does the drivers speed display show in km/h instead of mph? Chancery Lane derailment - the 85kph was part of the fallout from that. Speeds on the Central and Waterloo & City lines are measured in KPH with the tunnel section maximum speed being 65kph as opposed to the higher speed in the open. The TBTC/CBTC systems are worked out in KPH which then converts back to MPH which gives some odd amounts on speed limits. For example one part of the Farringdon-Kings Cross westbound run has a section of 85kph which displays in the cab as 53mph, there’s various 50kph areas which display as 31mph. Agree about the east end District - the current speed is 45mph which is what the signalling sections are designed for. Higher speeds need longer sections and safety overlap margins so there would be less signals and less trains would be able to run - however I would agree with CBTC using the position of trains a bit more dynamically then in the right conditions there should be a bit of faster running. Fingers crossed!
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Post by Dstock7080 on Aug 2, 2022 10:41:44 GMT
That is shocking imo. Especially the District, there are long straight between Barking and Upminster where speed way past 60 can be achieved which is seen on parallel National Rail tracks. Also a few of the platforms on the section to Upminster has some very long platforms, was the District ever operating the equivalent of 9 car trains in the past. Prior to 1971 the District operated 6 and 8-car trains. Platforms from Bromley to Upminster were built by the LTSR/Midland, to mainline standard. Current signalling dates from the 1950/60s and is not designed for higher speeds, signal overlaps need to take into consideration; speed of fastest train weight of heaviest train gradient weather conditions. Indeed there are signals in that area that slightly compromise that overlap and are now held at danger until the following signal clears, (Upney, Elm Park). CBTC should solve many of these issues.
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Post by capitalomnibus on Aug 2, 2022 12:04:34 GMT
That is shocking imo. Especially the District, there are long straight between Barking and Upminster where speed way past 60 can be achieved which is seen on parallel National Rail tracks. Also a few of the platforms on the section to Upminster has some very long platforms, was the District ever operating the equivalent of 9 car trains in the past. Prior to 1971 the District operated 6 and 8-car trains. Platforms from Bromley to Upminster were built by the LTSR/Midland, to mainline standard. Current signalling dates from the 1950/60s and is not designed for higher speeds, signal overlaps need to take into consideration; speed of fastest train weight of heaviest train gradient weather conditions. Indeed there are signals in that area that slightly compromise that overlap and are now held at danger until the following signal clears, (Upney, Elm Park). CBTC should solve many of these issues. So does the signalling prevent the train from breaching the speed limit? What would prevent a S7 going up to 100km/h on the sections to Upminster.
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Post by Dstock7080 on Aug 2, 2022 12:45:46 GMT
So does the signalling prevent the train from breaching the speed limit? What would prevent a S7 going up to 100km/h on the sections to Upminster. The signalling does not stop the train speeding, the professionalism of the train staff does. As has already been explained, S Stock are physically limited to 48mph (77kph) in MANUAL with existing signalling, so the lineside says “45mph” maximum. If a train did reach 100kph on existing signalling it would potentially result in a collision, as the train may not stop in time after being tripped on a danger signal, before it reached the train in front.
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Post by VMH2537 on Aug 13, 2022 19:46:18 GMT
Greater Anglia and C2C are the only London rail operaters that charges standard TfL fare rates as opposed to others
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Post by transportizm on Sept 11, 2022 10:52:26 GMT
Are the six five car class 710s still going to be on the West London Line or have they never been built.
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Post by Dstock7080 on Sept 11, 2022 11:13:26 GMT
Are the six five car class 710s still going to be on the West London Line or have they never been built. Just two 710.374 710.375 still outstanding to be delivered to London
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