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Post by twobellstogo on Sept 1, 2023 8:06:40 GMT
I wonder if Brexit didn’t happen and the UK was in Schengen what additional routes we would see go through the tunnel? A service from London to Köln (Cologne) and Frankfurt for a start. Daily services from London to Barcelona and Milano, avoiding the need to change stations in Paris. Direct services from Edinburgh to Paris. Even with Schengen/UK back in the EU I doubt there would be any Eurostar services starting from anywhere other than London. Köln and Frankfurt, absolutely. There’s a small possibility of that happening sometime in the future anyway. Barcelona, yes, and cities in France in that general direction, yes too. Suspect the south of France is more likely than Milan in this hypothetical situation.
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Post by twobellstogo on Sept 1, 2023 8:10:52 GMT
A service from London to Köln (Cologne) and Frankfurt for a start. Daily services from London to Barcelona and Milano, avoiding the need to change stations in Paris. Direct services from Edinburgh to Paris. Who on earth would even use a train for such excessive distances? Would they even be commercially viable? Milan and Barca are both only 2 hours by plane but could take well over 6 hours by train. Paris and Brussells I understand the rationale for the train, but most other European cities make no sense. Slow travel is very much a thing these days, and even if that wasn’t a thing, the top two thirds of France, Benelux, and the far west of Germany are quite doable in a timescale that if you left London in the morning, you’d be at your destination in good time to have a nice afternoon and evening enjoying the town of your choice.
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Eurostar
Sept 1, 2023 9:43:59 GMT
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Post by greenboy on Sept 1, 2023 9:43:59 GMT
I wonder if Brexit didn’t happen and the UK was in Schengen what additional routes we would see go through the tunnel? Probably none, isn't Eurostar largely a white elephant? It's never going to compete with low cost airlines.
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Post by southlondon413 on Sept 1, 2023 10:00:13 GMT
I wonder if Brexit didn’t happen and the UK was in Schengen what additional routes we would see go through the tunnel? Probably none, isn't Eurostar largely a white elephant? It's never going to compete with low cost airlines. If I’m going to Paris I would always take the Eurostar. It’s so much easier than flying. If I flew to Paris I’d have to be at the airport at least 2-3 hours before the flight, then getting through CDG could be awful as well as waiting for bags. You can rock up to Eurostar 30 minutes before departure and just glide through Gare du Nord with ease. So much easier and leisurely than going to an airport.
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Post by Eastlondoner62 on Sept 1, 2023 10:32:03 GMT
Probably none, isn't Eurostar largely a white elephant? It's never going to compete with low cost airlines. If I’m going to Paris I would always take the Eurostar. It’s so much easier than flying. If I flew to Paris I’d have to be at the airport at least 2-3 hours before the flight, then getting through CDG could be awful as well as waiting for bags. You can rock up to Eurostar 30 minutes before departure and just glide through Gare du Nord with ease. So much easier and leisurely than going to an airport. I think Paris and Brussells are both good uses for the service, any further isn't going to be. I think the barrier tends to be around 3 hours. It's quicker to fly to Scotland than to take the train when you start from Charing Cross, would assume its similar going south.
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Post by twobellstogo on Sept 1, 2023 11:15:19 GMT
If I’m going to Paris I would always take the Eurostar. It’s so much easier than flying. If I flew to Paris I’d have to be at the airport at least 2-3 hours before the flight, then getting through CDG could be awful as well as waiting for bags. You can rock up to Eurostar 30 minutes before departure and just glide through Gare du Nord with ease. So much easier and leisurely than going to an airport. I think Paris and Brussells are both good uses for the service, any further isn't going to be. I think the barrier tends to be around 3 hours. It's quicker to fly to Scotland than to take the train when you start from Charing Cross, would assume its similar going south. If you combine speed and convenience, I’d say the top two thirds of France (draw a line from roughly Bordeaux to Lyon and up to the border with Switzerland near Geneva), all of Benelux and Rhineland-Palatinate, Saarland, North Rhine Westphalia and Baden-Württemburg in western Germany are better approached by train than plane from the London area. I went to the Netherlands by train last month and it was great. In the UK, I wouldn’t fly anywhere in England. Scotland, apart from Edinburgh and points south on the East Coast main line, is still probably more convenient by plane, sadly, and though it sounds very romantic, there’s far too much to go wrong with a journey to the Republic of Ireland via train/ferry from London for it to be viable.
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Post by greenboy on Sept 1, 2023 11:33:27 GMT
Probably none, isn't Eurostar largely a white elephant? It's never going to compete with low cost airlines. If I’m going to Paris I would always take the Eurostar. It’s so much easier than flying. If I flew to Paris I’d have to be at the airport at least 2-3 hours before the flight, then getting through CDG could be awful as well as waiting for bags. You can rock up to Eurostar 30 minutes before departure and just glide through Gare du Nord with ease. So much easier and leisurely than going to an airport. That's a fair point but travel further afield is likely to be quicker and cheaper by plane.
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Post by matthieu1221 on Sept 3, 2023 21:05:04 GMT
Through services down to the south of France in summer would be nice to have. I would definitely take the train to visit family in the South over flying if I didn't have to run between two different stations in Paris to change trains.
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Post by buspete on Sept 6, 2023 10:35:45 GMT
When London City Airport started there were only flights to Paris and Brussels. You cannot fly from City to those 2 destinations now, due to the success of Eurostar. There is a reason why there are plenty of flights from London (any airport) to Edinburgh but none to Cardiff.
But saying that hassle is a thing when planning travel, which getting to and from the Airport is, so I could understand why people would prefer a longer journey time versus hassle of changing, as with the longer journey you can relax, have something to eat, sleep or just watch entertainment, time goes quick when relaxing.
Also with no passport controls trains can operate to London like they do in Europe, say someone in Frankfurt can get off the train in Paris, or Dortmund can leave at Brussels. I could see Dortmund and Frankfurt being Major destination. There would be more trains than now going to Amsterdam, with the trains stopping at Brussels and Rotterdam, you wouldn't always need a separate Brussels train. Switzerland would be doable, as would the South of France as this would be an extension of the TGV from Paris through the Chunnel Tunnel.
For a plane journey, in reality you have to allow 3.5 - 4 hrs, I know Edinburgh is a hour flight, but it is anything but..
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Eurostar
Sept 6, 2023 11:07:45 GMT
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Post by Eastlondoner62 on Sept 6, 2023 11:07:45 GMT
When London City Airport started there were only flights to Paris and Brussels. You cannot fly from City to those 2 destinations now, due to the success of Eurostar. There is a reason why there are plenty of flights from London (any airport) to Edinburgh but none to Cardiff. But saying that hassle is a thing when planning travel, which getting to and from the Airport is, so I could understand why people would prefer a longer journey time versus hassle of changing, as with the longer journey you can relax, have something to eat, sleep or just watch entertainment, time goes quick when relaxing. Also with no passport controls trains can operate to London like they do in Europe, say someone in Frankfurt can get off the train in Paris, or Dortmund can leave at Brussels. I could see Dortmund and Frankfurt being Major destination. There would be more trains than now going to Amsterdam, with the trains stopping at Brussels and Rotterdam, you wouldn't always need a separate Brussels train. Switzerland would be doable, as would the South of France as this would be an extension of the TGV from Paris through the Chunnel Tunnel. For a plane journey, in reality you have to allow 3.5 - 4 hrs, I know Edinburgh is a hour flight, but it is anything but.. Believe the points guy did a test and the plane was faster on the Edinburgh route. I'm certainly flying next time, the train last time was awful.
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Eurostar
Sept 6, 2023 12:34:42 GMT
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Post by busman on Sept 6, 2023 12:34:42 GMT
When London City Airport started there were only flights to Paris and Brussels. You cannot fly from City to those 2 destinations now, due to the success of Eurostar. There is a reason why there are plenty of flights from London (any airport) to Edinburgh but none to Cardiff. But saying that hassle is a thing when planning travel, which getting to and from the Airport is, so I could understand why people would prefer a longer journey time versus hassle of changing, as with the longer journey you can relax, have something to eat, sleep or just watch entertainment, time goes quick when relaxing. Also with no passport controls trains can operate to London like they do in Europe, say someone in Frankfurt can get off the train in Paris, or Dortmund can leave at Brussels. I could see Dortmund and Frankfurt being Major destination. There would be more trains than now going to Amsterdam, with the trains stopping at Brussels and Rotterdam, you wouldn't always need a separate Brussels train. Switzerland would be doable, as would the South of France as this would be an extension of the TGV from Paris through the Chunnel Tunnel. For a plane journey, in reality you have to allow 3.5 - 4 hrs, I know Edinburgh is a hour flight, but it is anything but.. Switzerland is £220-300 return from London City Airport with a flight time of approximately 1hr 20mins. No Eurostar service can compete with that.
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Post by vjaska on Sept 6, 2023 14:13:43 GMT
When London City Airport started there were only flights to Paris and Brussels. You cannot fly from City to those 2 destinations now, due to the success of Eurostar. There is a reason why there are plenty of flights from London (any airport) to Edinburgh but none to Cardiff. But saying that hassle is a thing when planning travel, which getting to and from the Airport is, so I could understand why people would prefer a longer journey time versus hassle of changing, as with the longer journey you can relax, have something to eat, sleep or just watch entertainment, time goes quick when relaxing. Also with no passport controls trains can operate to London like they do in Europe, say someone in Frankfurt can get off the train in Paris, or Dortmund can leave at Brussels. I could see Dortmund and Frankfurt being Major destination. There would be more trains than now going to Amsterdam, with the trains stopping at Brussels and Rotterdam, you wouldn't always need a separate Brussels train. Switzerland would be doable, as would the South of France as this would be an extension of the TGV from Paris through the Chunnel Tunnel. For a plane journey, in reality you have to allow 3.5 - 4 hrs, I know Edinburgh is a hour flight, but it is anything but.. Believe the points guy did a test and the plane was faster on the Edinburgh route. I'm certainly flying next time, the train last time was awful. You must of been unlucky, only once have I had issues with a train to Scotland and that was down to flooding in the Carlisle area closing the WCML and LNER giving out incorrect information on the ECML service to Edinburgh. Every other trip has been faultless and the last time I went, the train even arrived slightly earlier than planned at Glasgow.
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Post by LondonNorthern on Sept 6, 2023 15:45:59 GMT
Believe the points guy did a test and the plane was faster on the Edinburgh route. I'm certainly flying next time, the train last time was awful. You must of been unlucky, only once have I had issues with a train to Scotland and that was down to flooding in the Carlisle area closing the WCML and LNER giving out incorrect information on the ECML service to Edinburgh. Every other trip has been faultless and the last time I went, the train even arrived slightly earlier than planned at Glasgow. The more pressing issue is cost, the fact Avanti is charging extortionate amounts of money for journeys quicker and cheaper by plane is absolutely abhorrent. This might not be so popular with the forum, I can promise the heat hasn’t gotten to my head 😂 but I do think the railways should be properly renationalised to, especially, reduce ticket prices. www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/what-great-british-railways-shake-24149631.amp
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Post by vjaska on Sept 6, 2023 16:36:58 GMT
You must of been unlucky, only once have I had issues with a train to Scotland and that was down to flooding in the Carlisle area closing the WCML and LNER giving out incorrect information on the ECML service to Edinburgh. Every other trip has been faultless and the last time I went, the train even arrived slightly earlier than planned at Glasgow. The more pressing issue is cost, the fact Avanti is charging extortionate amounts of money for journeys quicker and cheaper by plane is absolutely abhorrent. This might not be so popular with the forum, I can promise the heat hasn’t gotten to my head 😂 but I do think the railways should be properly renationalised to, especially, reduce ticket prices. www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/what-great-british-railways-shake-24149631.ampYou can get affordable tickets with Avanti though if you look at the right times. Could they better? Of course but they aren't as ridiculous as prices charged by the likes of GWR, Southern and Southeastern for much shorter journeys
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Post by matthieu1221 on Sept 6, 2023 18:23:18 GMT
I think a major problem is that it's not really turn up and go on the spot (and this isn't a problem exclusive to the Eurostar, the TGV is the same) as the fares encourage you to book early to book cheap -- in essence just like the plane. The difference between this and a real turn up and go HSR like the Shinkansen is stark.
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