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Post by VMH2452 on Mar 29, 2024 10:37:48 GMT
The Tranche 3 Operators have been confirmed. Source here. Hyde Road large franchise – Metroline Sharston large franchise – Metroline Wythenshawe large franchise – Metroline Stockport large franchise – Stagecoach Tameside large franchise – Metroline Tameside A small franchise – Go North West Tameside B small franchise – Diamond Trafford small franchise – Diamond Stockport small franchise – Diamond It's disappointing that SME operators have failed to make headway in any of the three Tranches. I know that SME participation is a real concern in West Yorkshire so I wonder if some smaller franchises will be ringfenced specifically for SME operators, or if there will be some way of protecting their level of work? I bet Stagecoach are pleased to hold on to Stockport given their investment in EVs there. The interesting thing is the SMEs don’t seem to be bidding en masse. If you click on award of contract, for Tranche 1, 6/7 awarded small contracts had one SME bid. For Tranche 2, only one bid for Oldham Small and none for Rochdale A or B.
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Post by SILENCED on Mar 29, 2024 11:09:04 GMT
It's disappointing that SME operators have failed to make headway in any of the three Tranches. I know that SME participation is a real concern in West Yorkshire so I wonder if some smaller franchises will be ringfenced specifically for SME operators, or if there will be some way of protecting their level of work? I bet Stagecoach are pleased to hold on to Stockport given their investment in EVs there. The interesting thing is the SMEs don’t seem to be bidding en masse. If you click on award of contract, for Tranche 1, 6/7 awarded small contracts had one SME bid. For Tranche 2, only one bid for Oldham Small and none for Rochdale A or B. Probably the SMEs don't have the financial backing to bid en masse, the bidding is probably an expense in itself, many being owned by individuals without multinational backing. They're probably only interested in a tranche they can operate from their existing base, which is probably a maximum of 1.
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Post by VMH2452 on Mar 29, 2024 11:31:09 GMT
The interesting thing is the SMEs don’t seem to be bidding en masse. If you click on award of contract, for Tranche 1, 6/7 awarded small contracts had one SME bid. For Tranche 2, only one bid for Oldham Small and none for Rochdale A or B. Probably the SMEs don't have the financial backing to bid en masse, the bidding is probably an expense in itself, many being owned by individuals without multinational backing. They're probably only interested in a tranche they can operate from their existing base, which is probably a maximum of 1. Exactly this I think. Apparently, the main reason Abellio are no longer interested in Manchester is the bond TfGM require in case of bankruptcy is too large for them. Similarly, Arriva allegedly aren’t interested due to the level of investment required. So if these large corporations aren’t interested then it’s no surprise the SMEs aren’t. School bus tenders don’t require the same level of investment so maybe when the Tranche 3 school tenders are announced there may be more SME wins there.
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Post by rj131 on Mar 29, 2024 14:05:25 GMT
It's disappointing that SME operators have failed to make headway in any of the three Tranches. I know that SME participation is a real concern in West Yorkshire so I wonder if some smaller franchises will be ringfenced specifically for SME operators, or if there will be some way of protecting their level of work? I bet Stagecoach are pleased to hold on to Stockport given their investment in EVs there. I suspect that’s probably a solid reason why Stagecoach were able to hold onto Stockport. I bet Stagecoach are delighted to still be holding on the monster 192 route, the flagship Manchester bus route. Also fun fact re the 192, the biggest PVR route in the country with a PVR of 39. That beats any London route!!!😱😱
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Post by Eastlondoner62 on Mar 29, 2024 16:21:37 GMT
I suspect that’s probably a solid reason why Stagecoach were able to hold onto Stockport. I bet Stagecoach are delighted to still be holding on the monster 192 route, the flagship Manchester bus route. Also fun fact re the 192, the biggest PVR route in the country with a PVR of 39. That beats any London route!!!😱😱 Once upon a time not too long ago a PVR of 39 would be dwarfed by routes in London. I'd also say the 192 might be the flagship Stagecoach route period. You do have others like the Dundee 73 and the London 25 but I'd say the 192 is the jewel in the crown.
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Post by rj131 on Mar 29, 2024 17:33:47 GMT
I bet Stagecoach are delighted to still be holding on the monster 192 route, the flagship Manchester bus route. Also fun fact re the 192, the biggest PVR route in the country with a PVR of 39. That beats any London route!!!😱😱 Once upon a time not too long ago a PVR of 39 would be dwarfed by routes in London. I'd also say the 192 might be the flagship Stagecoach route period. You do have others like the Dundee 73 and the London 25 but I'd say the 192 is the jewel in the crown. Yup, shows how far London’s buses have fallen from grace. 38 had PVR 72 25 had PVR 60 18 had PVR 53 Can’t remember the specific figures of any others but I’m pretty sure the 12, 29, 73, 149, 207, 279, 436 and 453 also had PVRs well north of 40 at one point. The 192 certainly is Stagecoach’s flagship route. More than half of my Manchester bus journeys have been on that route. The work Stagecoach have put into that route making it into the runaway success it’s become, just for it to go to another operator would really not have felt right
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Post by enviroPB on Mar 29, 2024 18:58:23 GMT
Once upon a time not too long ago a PVR of 39 would be dwarfed by routes in London. I'd also say the 192 might be the flagship Stagecoach route period. You do have others like the Dundee 73 and the London 25 but I'd say the 192 is the jewel in the crown. Yup, shows how far London’s buses have fallen from grace. 38 had PVR 72 25 had PVR 60 18 had PVR 53 Can’t remember the specific figures of any others but I’m pretty sure the 12, 29, 73, 149, 207, 279, 436 and 453 also had PVRs well north of 40 at one point. The 192 certainly is Stagecoach’s flagship route. More than half of my Manchester bus journeys have been on that route. The work Stagecoach have put into that route making it into the runaway success it’s become, just for it to go to another operator would really not have felt right From memory, I know the 25 started off with First in 2011 with a 59 PVR and 64 TVR. Then it was 64 PVR for the CS2 cycle works for a while before it was cut after the Mile End shorts were introduced. It's a bit disheartening that Manchester now has the highest PVR route in the UK, but not too unreasonable given it's a big city and one that's seeing investment in their bus network at the moment. In London we're facing the catch 22 of more routes with reduced PVRs instead of more trunk routes, where I'm sure punters prefer the latter. Let's not forget as well, Manchester also has the crown for the busiest bus corridor in Europe on the Wilmslow Road; specifically near the Curry Mile where it was at one point 140bph with the combined routes! I have no clue if Covid has scuppered those facts but it's pretty impressive nonetheless.
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Post by rj131 on Mar 29, 2024 19:39:04 GMT
Yup, shows how far London’s buses have fallen from grace. 38 had PVR 72 25 had PVR 60 18 had PVR 53 Can’t remember the specific figures of any others but I’m pretty sure the 12, 29, 73, 149, 207, 279, 436 and 453 also had PVRs well north of 40 at one point. The 192 certainly is Stagecoach’s flagship route. More than half of my Manchester bus journeys have been on that route. The work Stagecoach have put into that route making it into the runaway success it’s become, just for it to go to another operator would really not have felt right From memory, I know the 25 started off with First in 2011 with a 59 PVR and 64 TVR. Then it was 64 PVR for the CS2 cycle works for a while before it was cut after the Mile End shorts were introduced. It's a bit disheartening that Manchester now has the highest PVR route in the UK, but not too unreasonable given it's a big city and one that's seeing investment in their bus network at the moment. In London we're facing the catch 22 of more routes with reduced PVRs instead of more trunk routes, where I'm sure punters prefer the latter. Let's not forget as well, Manchester also has the crown for the busiest bus corridor in Europe on the Wilmslow Road; specifically near the Curry Mile where it was at one point 140bph with the combined routes! I have no clue if Covid has scuppered those facts but it's pretty impressive nonetheless. No I think punters prefer trunk routes that actually get you somewhere in decent time. That’s why trunk routes in London are losing passengers in droves, but most of the SL routes will turn into huge successes (jury’s out on the SL2 which shares more similarities with a car park than a bus route) Ive been thinking recently that I actually don’t think this whole ‘North-South’ divide is as prevalent as the media like to make it out to be. Manchester is getting serious transport investment in its buses, the North-East has a very large and well used rapid transit system, also very good and fast rail links to London and Scotland, and certainly more motorways in the north of England than we have here in Norfolk. I visit Manchester a lot and I’m certainly impressed at how easy it is to get to places by either car or public transport. MSM even pointed out that Northern local authorities are ‘more likely’ to go under than Southern ones, but don’t for get it was a London council (Croydon no less) that went down the swanny first 😂
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Post by Eastlondoner62 on Mar 29, 2024 20:18:43 GMT
From memory, I know the 25 started off with First in 2011 with a 59 PVR and 64 TVR. Then it was 64 PVR for the CS2 cycle works for a while before it was cut after the Mile End shorts were introduced. It's a bit disheartening that Manchester now has the highest PVR route in the UK, but not too unreasonable given it's a big city and one that's seeing investment in their bus network at the moment. In London we're facing the catch 22 of more routes with reduced PVRs instead of more trunk routes, where I'm sure punters prefer the latter. Let's not forget as well, Manchester also has the crown for the busiest bus corridor in Europe on the Wilmslow Road; specifically near the Curry Mile where it was at one point 140bph with the combined routes! I have no clue if Covid has scuppered those facts but it's pretty impressive nonetheless. No I think punters prefer trunk routes that actually get you somewhere in decent time. That’s why trunk routes in London are losing passengers in droves, but most of the SL routes will turn into huge successes (jury’s out on the SL2 which shares more similarities with a car park than a bus route) Ive been thinking recently that I actually don’t think this whole ‘North-South’ divide is as prevalent as the media like to make it out to be. Manchester is getting serious transport investment in its buses, the North-East has a very large and well used rapid transit system, also very good and fast rail links to London and Scotland, and certainly more motorways in the north of England than we have here in Norfolk. I visit Manchester a lot and I’m certainly impressed at how easy it is to get to places by either car or public transport. MSM even pointed out that Northern local authorities are ‘more likely’ to go under than Southern ones, but don’t for get it was a London council (Croydon no less) that went down the swanny first 😂 I wouldn't say all trunk routes are losing passengers, routes like the 25, 86 and 5 seem to be on the up and I think a few in other parts of London are as well. The 25 went from 8.4 to 10.4M with a year, the 5 went from 8.7M to 9.9M and the 86 went from 8.3M to 10M. I think London certainly does get the Lion's share of investment compared to other parts of the UK. Despite there'a a lot of investment being put into Greater Manchester at the moment it's more about the maintenance of the system afterwards which will show how well it gets treated in comparison to London. TfL had a huge amount of investment put into it when it initially started up and since then it's been about maintaining the initial investment so you can't compare it to a system that's still in its infant stages. But without a doubt I'd say Manchester is probably the second to London in the UK in terms of public transport provision. I'd debate how easy it is to get there though, at least as long as Avanti is in the state that it's in. It might be a bit different when HS2 starts but as long as British Airways is flying around at relatively comparable fares at a sheer fraction of the fares and you get Heathrow Terminal 5 instead of Euston Station it's effectively a no brainer to get to and from Manchester. A lot of the flights are also made predominantly out of people who fly only between the two cities so the plane is certainly growing in its appeal to travel between the two cities.
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Post by VMH2452 on Mar 29, 2024 20:28:09 GMT
Yup, shows how far London’s buses have fallen from grace. 38 had PVR 72 25 had PVR 60 18 had PVR 53 Can’t remember the specific figures of any others but I’m pretty sure the 12, 29, 73, 149, 207, 279, 436 and 453 also had PVRs well north of 40 at one point. The 192 certainly is Stagecoach’s flagship route. More than half of my Manchester bus journeys have been on that route. The work Stagecoach have put into that route making it into the runaway success it’s become, just for it to go to another operator would really not have felt right From memory, I know the 25 started off with First in 2011 with a 59 PVR and 64 TVR. Then it was 64 PVR for the CS2 cycle works for a while before it was cut after the Mile End shorts were introduced. It's a bit disheartening that Manchester now has the highest PVR route in the UK, but not too unreasonable given it's a big city and one that's seeing investment in their bus network at the moment. In London we're facing the catch 22 of more routes with reduced PVRs instead of more trunk routes, where I'm sure punters prefer the latter. Let's not forget as well, Manchester also has the crown for the busiest bus corridor in Europe on the Wilmslow Road; specifically near the Curry Mile where it was at one point 140bph with the combined routes! I have no clue if Covid has scuppered those facts but it's pretty impressive nonetheless. I believe the Wilmslow Road through the University is now around 50bph. The bit by the Curry Mile is certainly less as the Vantage routes do not pass through there and through the Curry Mile itself is lower as a few routes turn off before there. Certainly though I’ve never waited for more than 5 minutes for a bus on that corridor and usually when you do about 5 turn up together.
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Post by southlondon413 on Mar 29, 2024 21:34:12 GMT
Yup, shows how far London’s buses have fallen from grace. 38 had PVR 72 25 had PVR 60 18 had PVR 53 Can’t remember the specific figures of any others but I’m pretty sure the 12, 29, 73, 149, 207, 279, 436 and 453 also had PVRs well north of 40 at one point. The 192 certainly is Stagecoach’s flagship route. More than half of my Manchester bus journeys have been on that route. The work Stagecoach have put into that route making it into the runaway success it’s become, just for it to go to another operator would really not have felt right From memory, I know the 25 started off with First in 2011 with a 59 PVR and 64 TVR. Then it was 64 PVR for the CS2 cycle works for a while before it was cut after the Mile End shorts were introduced. It's a bit disheartening that Manchester now has the highest PVR route in the UK, but not too unreasonable given it's a big city and one that's seeing investment in their bus network at the moment. In London we're facing the catch 22 of more routes with reduced PVRs instead of more trunk routes, where I'm sure punters prefer the latter. Let's not forget as well, Manchester also has the crown for the busiest bus corridor in Europe on the Wilmslow Road; specifically near the Curry Mile where it was at one point 140bph with the combined routes! I have no clue if Covid has scuppered those facts but it's pretty impressive nonetheless. Manchester doesn’t have the highest PVR route in the UK. Coastliner 700 utilises a PVR of 47 across its whole length from Portsmouth to Brighton.
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Post by TB123 on Mar 29, 2024 22:28:39 GMT
From memory, I know the 25 started off with First in 2011 with a 59 PVR and 64 TVR. Then it was 64 PVR for the CS2 cycle works for a while before it was cut after the Mile End shorts were introduced. It's a bit disheartening that Manchester now has the highest PVR route in the UK, but not too unreasonable given it's a big city and one that's seeing investment in their bus network at the moment. In London we're facing the catch 22 of more routes with reduced PVRs instead of more trunk routes, where I'm sure punters prefer the latter. Let's not forget as well, Manchester also has the crown for the busiest bus corridor in Europe on the Wilmslow Road; specifically near the Curry Mile where it was at one point 140bph with the combined routes! I have no clue if Covid has scuppered those facts but it's pretty impressive nonetheless. Manchester doesn’t have the highest PVR route in the UK. Coastliner 700 utilises a PVR of 47 across its whole length from Portsmouth to Brighton. That is multiple routes with the same number, so the 192 is the highest
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Post by enviroPB on Mar 30, 2024 3:52:15 GMT
From memory, I know the 25 started off with First in 2011 with a 59 PVR and 64 TVR. Then it was 64 PVR for the CS2 cycle works for a while before it was cut after the Mile End shorts were introduced. It's a bit disheartening that Manchester now has the highest PVR route in the UK, but not too unreasonable given it's a big city and one that's seeing investment in their bus network at the moment. In London we're facing the catch 22 of more routes with reduced PVRs instead of more trunk routes, where I'm sure punters prefer the latter. Let's not forget as well, Manchester also has the crown for the busiest bus corridor in Europe on the Wilmslow Road; specifically near the Curry Mile where it was at one point 140bph with the combined routes! I have no clue if Covid has scuppered those facts but it's pretty impressive nonetheless. Manchester doesn’t have the highest PVR route in the UK. Coastliner 700 utilises a PVR of 47 across its whole length from Portsmouth to Brighton. -FORWARDED MESSAGE- The person you are trying to belittle is currently out of the country on holiday, and will be back in 5 business days. If you need urgent attention, please redirect your incessant need for always being correct at the original member who made the original statement you are disputing. By the second week in April, I will be back to fully ignoring your light harassment. I apologise in advance for the inconvenience caused. -END OF MESSAGE-
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Post by matthieu1221 on Mar 31, 2024 13:35:05 GMT
Yup, shows how far London’s buses have fallen from grace. 38 had PVR 72 25 had PVR 60 18 had PVR 53 Can’t remember the specific figures of any others but I’m pretty sure the 12, 29, 73, 149, 207, 279, 436 and 453 also had PVRs well north of 40 at one point. The 192 certainly is Stagecoach’s flagship route. More than half of my Manchester bus journeys have been on that route. The work Stagecoach have put into that route making it into the runaway success it’s become, just for it to go to another operator would really not have felt right From memory, I know the 25 started off with First in 2011 with a 59 PVR and 64 TVR. Then it was 64 PVR for the CS2 cycle works for a while before it was cut after the Mile End shorts were introduced. It's a bit disheartening that Manchester now has the highest PVR route in the UK, but not too unreasonable given it's a big city and one that's seeing investment in their bus network at the moment. In London we're facing the catch 22 of more routes with reduced PVRs instead of more trunk routes, where I'm sure punters prefer the latter. Let's not forget as well, Manchester also has the crown for the busiest bus corridor in Europe on the Wilmslow Road; specifically near the Curry Mile where it was at one point 140bph with the combined routes! I have no clue if Covid has scuppered those facts but it's pretty impressive nonetheless. There's also the fact that the bus network is pretty much substituting for the lack of a proper heavy rail system (discounting Metrolink which is light rail and currently misses out large swathes of the south!).
Improvements on the Tube/Overground have killed off some of the high PVR routes such as the 38. There's also more capacity nowadays on the tube than previously with for example the Victoria Line being pretty much tolerable now which would've also reduced use on the Victoria <-> Oxford Circus corridor (73, now 390). There's always a contingent of people who will prefer the bus (for cost, simple preference) but in some parts of (especially Central) London they aren't as prevalent as others (25 corridor still doing admirably well in terms of passenger numbers) which explains some of the decline especially with Tube/Overground travel being more pleasant now than previously.
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Post by redbus on Mar 31, 2024 14:37:33 GMT
From memory, I know the 25 started off with First in 2011 with a 59 PVR and 64 TVR. Then it was 64 PVR for the CS2 cycle works for a while before it was cut after the Mile End shorts were introduced. It's a bit disheartening that Manchester now has the highest PVR route in the UK, but not too unreasonable given it's a big city and one that's seeing investment in their bus network at the moment. In London we're facing the catch 22 of more routes with reduced PVRs instead of more trunk routes, where I'm sure punters prefer the latter. Let's not forget as well, Manchester also has the crown for the busiest bus corridor in Europe on the Wilmslow Road; specifically near the Curry Mile where it was at one point 140bph with the combined routes! I have no clue if Covid has scuppered those facts but it's pretty impressive nonetheless. There's also the fact that the bus network is pretty much substituting for the lack of a proper heavy rail system (discounting Metrolink which is light rail and currently misses out large swathes of the south!).
Improvements on the Tube/Overground have killed off some of the high PVR routes such as the 38. There's also more capacity nowadays on the tube than previously with for example the Victoria Line being pretty much tolerable now which would've also reduced use on the Victoria <-> Oxford Circus corridor (73, now 390). There's always a contingent of people who will prefer the bus (for cost, simple preference) but in some parts of (especially Central) London they aren't as prevalent as others (25 corridor still doing admirably well in terms of passenger numbers) which explains some of the decline especially with Tube/Overground travel being more pleasant now than previously. Absolutely, it is not just the tube that has killed off buses in central / Inner London, but lengthening bus journey times, alternatives such as private hire, scooters, bikes, e-bikes etc. Routes such as the 25 and 73 used to have PVRs in excess of 80, and if you go back to 1937 the 73 had a PVR of over 100!!
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