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Post by route53 on May 10, 2021 19:06:12 GMT
I will say that SE London in general does have a number of useful inter borough trunk routes, that head to zone 1 or 2, the 53, 89, 177, 180, 208, 261, 286, 321, 472 etc all do a good job at filling the tube sized hole in this part of the world. While the 54, 122, 108, 161 & 202 do a fair job on the linking towns orbitally in a north/south zone 2/3/4 axis I still consider it a real shame that the 54 no longer serves Croydon : in my mind the 54 is one of the very few longish routes in London that could take a reasonable length extension, at either end. I agree and 20 years on and I still hear locals in Woolwich or Blackheath say how the 54 was butchered, it did a great job ferrying passengers from the outer suburbs into the inner suburbs and back out again. Removing the 54 from Croydon only added pressure onto the 75 which meanders through residential streets between Catford and Penge, where as the 54 was probably the more direct route. Some one mentioned earlier that Bexleyheath and Welling could have a bus route to zone 1, along the A2/A207 roads, 89 pretty much stays on this stretch of road as far as Blackheath where it diverges to the Village and Lewisham, though I do think the 89 could have a short extension to New Cross
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Post by southlondonbus on May 10, 2021 19:13:19 GMT
The 54 would be around 90 mins now but it could still provide some useful cross Lewisham and Catford links. In reality Tramlink was going to take away alot of demand for a bus from Beckenham and Elmers End to Croydon.
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Post by Dillon95 on May 10, 2021 19:23:57 GMT
This is how I would improve Bromley’s connections.
I would extend the 199 from Bellingham to Bromley North, giving Bromley new daytime links with Greenwich, Deptford, Surrey Quays & Canada Water. Then cut the Bromley to Catford section of the 320, as the 199 & 208 would be enough between the two.
I would also extend the 126 from Eltham to Woolwich, to give both Bromley & Grove Park links with Woolwich.
I would extend the 227 from Crystal Palace to Streatham, to give Bromley, Beckenham & Penge a link into SW London.
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Post by thesquirrels on May 10, 2021 21:14:31 GMT
The 54 would be around 90 mins now but it could still provide some useful cross Lewisham and Catford links. In reality Tramlink was going to take away alot of demand for a bus from Beckenham and Elmers End to Croydon. Peak and Saturday running times on the 54 were just short of 90 minutes in the 1990s. I wonder if it would have survived in its old form length far into the 2000s, even without tramlink. www.timetablegraveyard.co.uk/Scanned_Timetables/50to99/054_19980905.pdf
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Post by southlondonbus on May 10, 2021 21:25:43 GMT
It was talked about here somewhere that even in 1981 the route was considered for splitting with a new 151 from TL to Woolwich via Hither Green or something and the 54 would have become West Croydon to Lewisham only. So by the 00s it was likely a cut may have happened.
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Post by route53 on May 10, 2021 21:26:33 GMT
The 54 would be around 90 mins now but it could still provide some useful cross Lewisham and Catford links. In reality Tramlink was going to take away alot of demand for a bus from Beckenham and Elmers End to Croydon. Peak and Saturday running times on the 54 were just short of 90 minutes in the 1990s. I wonder if it would have survived in its old form length far into the 2000s, even without tramlink. www.timetablegraveyard.co.uk/Scanned_Timetables/50to99/054_19980905.pdfThe 122 which is a long route by today’s standards has survived into the 2020s, I think the 54 would have done too if it weren’t for the tram, the 140 and 65 which are lengthy orbital routes have survived, the 140 now has an X140
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Post by route53 on May 10, 2021 21:32:23 GMT
It was talked about here somewhere that even in 1981 the route was considered for splitting with a new 151 from TL to Woolwich via Hither Green or something and the 54 would have become West Croydon to Lewisham only. So by the 00s it was likely a cut may have happened. Stupid question but what does TL mean?
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Post by Eastlondoner62 on May 10, 2021 21:33:51 GMT
It was talked about here somewhere that even in 1981 the route was considered for splitting with a new 151 from TL to Woolwich via Hither Green or something and the 54 would have become West Croydon to Lewisham only. So by the 00s it was likely a cut may have happened. Stupid question but what does TL mean? Its the code for Stagecoach Catford
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Post by twobellstogo on May 10, 2021 21:43:04 GMT
Some one mentioned earlier that Bexleyheath and Welling could have a bus route to zone 1, along the A2/A207 roads, 89 pretty much stays on this stretch of road as far as Blackheath where it diverges to the Village and Lewisham, though I do think the 89 could have a short extension to New Cross Blackheath and Deptford would probably scupper such a plan. Even with a direct route along the A2/A207, if you started at Bexleyheath, I think the furthest you could get a route reliably would be either somewhere in the Peckham area or Old Kent Road Tesco. Having said that, I don’t know, as a local, whether such a route would be attractive compared to the trains.
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Post by southlondonbus on May 10, 2021 21:45:40 GMT
The 54 would be around 90 mins now but it could still provide some useful cross Lewisham and Catford links. In reality Tramlink was going to take away alot of demand for a bus from Beckenham and Elmers End to Croydon. Peak and Saturday running times on the 54 were just short of 90 minutes in the 1990s. I wonder if it would have survived in its old form length far into the 2000s, even without tramlink. www.timetablegraveyard.co.uk/Scanned_Timetables/50to99/054_19980905.pdfMay i ask Where did you find that timetable as when I went on the page I couldn't find any before about 2001. Would love to see a 109 timetable from 1998/early 1999 if it's possible on there. Thanks.
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Post by thesquirrels on May 10, 2021 21:49:24 GMT
May i ask Where did you find that timetable as when I went on the page I couldn't find any before about 2001. Would love to see a 109 timetable from 1998/early 1999 if it's possible on there. Thanks. For whatver reason I can't find a way into it from the rest of the website, or via google, but I have a link saved to the site. See here www.timetablegraveyard.co.uk//st_index.html - timetable histories on the 109 back to 1922. Enjoy!
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Post by route53 on May 10, 2021 21:58:49 GMT
Stupid question but what does TL mean? Its the code for Stagecoach Catford Thank you :-)
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Post by southlondonbus on May 10, 2021 22:01:28 GMT
May i ask Where did you find that timetable as when I went on the page I couldn't find any before about 2001. Would love to see a 109 timetable from 1998/early 1999 if it's possible on there. Thanks. For whatver reason I can't find a way into it from the rest of the website, or via google, but I have a link saved to the site. See here www.timetablegraveyard.co.uk//st_index.html - timetable histories on the 109 back to 1922. Enjoy! Thank you
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Post by route53 on May 10, 2021 22:02:30 GMT
Some one mentioned earlier that Bexleyheath and Welling could have a bus route to zone 1, along the A2/A207 roads, 89 pretty much stays on this stretch of road as far as Blackheath where it diverges to the Village and Lewisham, though I do think the 89 could have a short extension to New Cross Blackheath and Deptford would probably scupper such a plan. Even with a direct route along the A2/A207, if you started at Bexleyheath, I think the furthest you could get a route reliably would be either somewhere in the Peckham area or Old Kent Road Tesco. Having said that, I don’t know, as a local, whether such a route would be attractive compared to the trains. I don’t think such a route would be attractive, the 89 already does a good job in being a trunk route, also you’d have to cut out Slade Green if the 89 were to be extended further than Lewisham into Peckham or Elephant and have it as a E&C or Peckham to Bexleyheath route, The 89 also parallels the Bexleyheath line which has services to Peckham and Denmark Hill for Camberwell
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Post by vjaska on May 10, 2021 22:14:43 GMT
The 122 which is a long route by today’s standards has survived into the 2020s, I think the 54 would have done too if it weren’t for the tram, the 140 and 65 which are lengthy orbital routes have survived, the 140 now has an X140 The 122 has a running time of 42-90 minutes currently according to londonbusroutes which would explain why it still exists in that form having done so since 1988. The 122 in the 80's was the longest route in London at that time running from Palace to Bexleyheath via the current 122 & then the current 422 & B11. The 140 was cut back from Heathrow to Hayes & Harlington in order to facilitate the X140 as well as the 278 whilst the 65 was cut back from Leatherhead & then Chessington by 1987 - current running time for the 65 is 33-75 minutes.
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