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Post by WH241 on Sept 25, 2023 16:50:17 GMT
Barking and Dagenham has a very sparse network. In terms of connections, you can’t go further west than Stratford or Canning Town, and you can’t go further east than Rainham. Night services are extremely lacking, especially between the A13 and A124. Literally one bus (287) goes into Havering, but outside Romford. That’s kind of disappointing. I agree, east London’s network, while being quite numerous in terms of the number of routes etc, is a bit sparse in geographical extent. Newham seems to have almost all the routes getting to East Ham by some weird twisty route or the other, 5 manages to get to Canning Town, 115 being the only one which gets anywhere. East of East Ham it’s even worse with same intertwined routes going round and round with no real straight routes getting to central (25 being a notable exception) I have said similar in the past but not convinced the Elizabeth Line changes have worked as well as TfL expected. The 304 for example is well used but its not bring huge numbers of passengers to Custom House station which i think is more used by local passengers and people changing for the DLR. The 474 is not carrying huge numbers on the new section and the same for the 241 but that extension is only a year old.
You hit the nail on the head about East Ham
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Post by WH241 on Sept 25, 2023 16:51:00 GMT
I assume you talking about connections to places only using one bus? It's pretty similar in Newham but depends where you for example some parts of the borough have the 25 towards City Thameslink where as other parts can only get as far as Aldgate.
Barking and Dagenham doesn’t have the 25. That’s Redbridge you’re thinking of. No I was using Newham as a example not having great links.
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Post by britishguy54 on Sept 25, 2023 18:40:41 GMT
I agree, east London’s network, while being quite numerous in terms of the number of routes etc, is a bit sparse in geographical extent. Newham seems to have almost all the routes getting to East Ham by some weird twisty route or the other, 5 manages to get to Canning Town, 115 being the only one which gets anywhere. East of East Ham it’s even worse with same intertwined routes going round and round with no real straight routes getting to central (25 being a notable exception) I have said similar in the past but not convinced the Elizabeth Line changes have worked as well as TfL expected. The 304 for example is well used but its not bring huge numbers of passengers to Custom House station which i think is more used by local passengers and people changing for the DLR. The 474 is not carrying huge numbers on the new section and the same for the 241 but that extension is only a year old.
You hit the nail on the head about East Ham
I feel like it could be helped by having the 115 get re-routed and extended to Barking. That would open up a more opportunities. Yeah, it would parallel the 5, but it would be neat to have. The SL2 might help with connections, especially between Barking and North Woolwich, which feels like a good connection. I’d also have another route going east out of Dagenham and avoiding Romford, but some people complain about that idea.
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Post by Eastlondoner62 on Sept 25, 2023 19:25:14 GMT
I have said similar in the past but not convinced the Elizabeth Line changes have worked as well as TfL expected. The 304 for example is well used but its not bring huge numbers of passengers to Custom House station which i think is more used by local passengers and people changing for the DLR. The 474 is not carrying huge numbers on the new section and the same for the 241 but that extension is only a year old.
You hit the nail on the head about East Ham
I feel like it could be helped by having the 115 get re-routed and extended to Barking. That would open up a more opportunities. Yeah, it would parallel the 5, but it would be neat to have. The SL2 might help with connections, especially between Barking and North Woolwich, which feels like a good connection. I’d also have another route going east out of Dagenham and avoiding Romford, but some people complain about that idea. When you suggest routes, you need to think of a simple question of why they need to exist. The major towns in East London are very clustered apart from Romford which is some distance out. There is no reason to have a route from Dagenham heading out East avoiding Romford because anyone further East than Dagenham will only want to go to Romford. There is no reason why anyone would regularly make a trip from the southern tip of Dagenham Heathway into the depths of Hornchurch. The only reason people would do that is potentially for leisure if they're visiting friends or family and such trips aren't going to be regular enough to justify a bus route. Bus routes need to have stable ridership in order to be viable, not just existing around on the odd chance that you might need to use it. Havering has a network the way it is because that's the sort of network that the area demands. People from Havering's suburbs want to get to Romford or to their nearest station, the bus network in the area already provides both. Another factor is that East London has decent rail connections. Stratford and Barking are two of the busiest stations in the country and Canning Town isn't very far behind. The fact is that these rail lines are very useful and people use them for their purpose which negates the need for a load of bus routes like what South London has. I do think there should be a few more bus routes heading into Central, the 115 going to Barking would be a very quick and easy way to ensure that happens. I might push and say the 339 could be extended to Tower Gateway or the old City Hall but other than that the links in the area are good enough. What East London needs are frequency increases, the network is good enough but to get people out of cars you need to have a turn up and go style service. The ELT network is a prime example where in its 'core' you have a bus every few minutes between Thames View and Barking Station. It persuades people to leave their cars and permits have had to be introduced as people kept driving in from out of London and parking in the Thames View area and using the frequent bus service to Barking Station where they can then get a train service into Central London. I notice you brought up the SL2, what makes you say that Barking to North Woolwich with a sole stop at Gallions Reach Station is a good connection? I can't think of many people flocking to make that journey, the 366 does it by serving the various shopping parks. The SL2 won't be doing that, I've long maintained it should go to Custom House to provide connections, but at North Woolwich it's pretty much a dud. I can see it being a runaway success elsewhere though as it does the job of providing a link between Barking and Ilford, and restoring the once popular link from Barking to Gants Hill to the localised shops in the area.
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Post by WH241 on Sept 25, 2023 19:34:49 GMT
I feel like it could be helped by having the 115 get re-routed and extended to Barking. That would open up a more opportunities. Yeah, it would parallel the 5, but it would be neat to have. The SL2 might help with connections, especially between Barking and North Woolwich, which feels like a good connection. I’d also have another route going east out of Dagenham and avoiding Romford, but some people complain about that idea. When you suggest routes, you need to think of a simple question of why they need to exist. The major towns in East London are very clustered apart from Romford which is some distance out. There is no reason to have a route from Dagenham heading out East avoiding Romford because anyone further East than Dagenham will only want to go to Romford. There is no reason why anyone would regularly make a trip from the southern tip of Dagenham Heathway into the depths of Hornchurch. The only reason people would do that is potentially for leisure if they're visiting friends or family and such trips aren't going to be regular enough to justify a bus route. Bus routes need to have stable ridership in order to be viable, not just existing around on the odd chance that you might need to use it. Havering has a network the way it is because that's the sort of network that the area demands. People from Havering's suburbs want to get to Romford or to their nearest station, the bus network in the area already provides both. Another factor is that East London has decent rail connections. Stratford and Barking are two of the busiest stations in the country and Canning Town isn't very far behind. The fact is that these rail lines are very useful and people use them for their purpose which negates the need for a load of bus routes like what South London has. I do think there should be a few more bus routes heading into Central, the 115 going to Barking would be a very quick and easy way to ensure that happens. I might push and say the 339 could be extended to Tower Gateway or the old City Hall but other than that the links in the area are good enough. What East London needs are frequency increases, the network is good enough but to get people out of cars you need to have a turn up and go style service. The ELT network is a prime example where in its 'core' you have a bus every few minutes between Thames View and Barking Station. It persuades people to leave their cars and permits have had to be introduced as people kept driving in from out of London and parking in the Thames View area and using the frequent bus service to Barking Station where they can then get a train service into Central London. I notice you brought up the SL2, what makes you say that Barking to North Woolwich with a sole stop at Gallions Reach Station is a good connection? I can't think of many people flocking to make that journey, the 366 does it by serving the various shopping parks. The SL2 won't be doing that, I've long maintained it should go to Custom House to provide connections, but at North Woolwich it's pretty much a dud. I can see it being a runaway success elsewhere though as it does the job of providing a link between Barking and Ilford, and restoring the once popular link from Barking to Gants Hill to the localised shops in the area. It's a shame the SL2 can't make a stop via double run in Beckton but that will add more time.
With regards to Custom House there is the 474 linking North Woolwich its not idea but could be useful. It's a shame the SL2 will use Ilford Lane as I imagine even using the 474 and SL 2 to ilford would have been quicker than the 147.
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Post by DT 11 on Sept 25, 2023 19:36:46 GMT
I feel like it could be helped by having the 115 get re-routed and extended to Barking. That would open up a more opportunities. Yeah, it would parallel the 5, but it would be neat to have. The SL2 might help with connections, especially between Barking and North Woolwich, which feels like a good connection. I’d also have another route going east out of Dagenham and avoiding Romford, but some people complain about that idea. tation, the bus network in the area already provides both. Another factor is that East London has decent rail connections. Stratford and Barking are two of the busiest stations in the country and Canning Town isn't very far behind. The fact is that these rail lines are very useful and people use them for their purpose which negates the need for a load of bus routes like what South London has. I do think there should be a few more bus routes heading into Central, the 115 going to Barking would be a very quick and easy way to ensure that happens. I might push and say the 339 could be extended to Tower Gateway or the old City Hall but other than that the links in the area are good enough. In relation to the 339 I am surprised the 100 has remained as it is at Shadwell for so long. Would have thought an extension more into East London like the Bethnal Green one that was proposed last year. Overall do not know how it managed to be such a small bus on such a high demand section for buses between Elephant & Castle & St Paul’s
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Post by northlondon83 on Sept 26, 2023 17:59:56 GMT
Barking and Dagenham has a very sparse network. In terms of connections, you can’t go further west than Stratford or Canning Town, and you can’t go further east than Rainham. Night services are extremely lacking, especially between the A13 and A124. Literally one bus (287) goes into Havering, but outside Romford. That’s kind of disappointing. I agree, east London’s network, while being quite numerous in terms of the number of routes etc, is a bit sparse in geographical extent. Newham seems to have almost all the routes getting to East Ham by some weird twisty route or the other, 5 manages to get to Canning Town, 115 being the only one which gets anywhere. East of East Ham it’s even worse with same intertwined routes going round and round with no real straight routes getting to central (25 being a notable exception) The River Thames prevents most cross River travel, though the 108 and 388 both cross the Thames. There will also be the SL4 and 129 soon vastly improving links
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Post by northlondon83 on Sept 26, 2023 18:04:29 GMT
Another thing I've noticed is a lack of connections in the Woodford area. There are no links from anywhere in IG8 or E18 to the boroughs of Havering, Barking and Dagenham or Newham. Even parts of Woodford have no links to Ilford which is a little strange
Whereas Chingford has links to Enfield, Potters Bar, Turnpike Lane, Edmonton, Woodford, Ilford, Stratford, Debden. Much better links
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Post by abellion on Sept 26, 2023 18:16:24 GMT
Another thing I've noticed is a lack of connections in the Woodford area. There are no links from anywhere in IG8 or E18 to the boroughs of Havering, Barking and Dagenham or Newham. Even parts of Woodford have no links to Ilford which is a little strange Whereas Chingford has links to Enfield, Potters Bar, Turnpike Lane, Edmonton, Woodford, Ilford, Stratford, Debden. Much better links Keeping in mind that Woodford and the surrounding areas have the Central Line
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Post by northlondon83 on Sept 26, 2023 18:19:02 GMT
Another thing I've noticed is a lack of connections in the Woodford area. There are no links from anywhere in IG8 or E18 to the boroughs of Havering, Barking and Dagenham or Newham. Even parts of Woodford have no links to Ilford which is a little strange Whereas Chingford has links to Enfield, Potters Bar, Turnpike Lane, Edmonton, Woodford, Ilford, Stratford, Debden. Much better links Keeping in mind that Woodford and the surrounding areas have the Central Line Many places have decent tube or rail links though
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Post by uakari on Sept 26, 2023 18:39:46 GMT
Another thing I've noticed is a lack of connections in the Woodford area. There are no links from anywhere in IG8 or E18 to the boroughs of Havering, Barking and Dagenham or Newham. Even parts of Woodford have no links to Ilford which is a little strange Whereas Chingford has links to Enfield, Potters Bar, Turnpike Lane, Edmonton, Woodford, Ilford, Stratford, Debden. Much better links This is another thing that could have been improved with the 'superloop' if it wasn't practically in inner London in the east and north.
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Post by londonboy71 on Sept 26, 2023 18:55:18 GMT
Ealing must be one of the best connected. Kingston Uxbridge Harrow Ruislip Finchley Hounslow White City Willesden Northolt. And that's just from Ealing Broadway. Not forgetting the rail and tube lines. And yes I DO live there!!
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