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Post by vjaska on Oct 5, 2021 21:12:01 GMT
The issue with freq reductions is longer gaps between buses causes more crowds to build up leading to longer loading and unloading times and more overcrowded buses. Sure it's not a hardship a route going from 8 to 10 mins but for a service like the 42 especially with the frequency it currently has at the moment if reduced to 15 minutes it could be a difference between a turn up and go service and a more infrequent service. But what else can be done to make savings? The good days are over. People say how busy the tube is now me included so less and less are using buses! I last used a bus in July or August! Can't have half empty buses running around. The problem with that though is you can only cut frequencies so far before you simply increase the decline itself - the 42 turning to a low frequency increase will probably simply put further people off who will look for other means outside of TfL meaning less revenue overall and potentially more cuts to other routes, including ones you may rely on.
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Post by WH241 on Oct 5, 2021 21:43:52 GMT
But what else can be done to make savings? The good days are over. People say how busy the tube is now me included so less and less are using buses! I last used a bus in July or August! Can't have half empty buses running around. The problem with that though is you can only cut frequencies so far before you simply increase the decline itself - the 42 turning to a low frequency increase will probably simply put further people off who will look for other means outside of TfL meaning less revenue overall and potentially more cuts to other routes, including ones you may rely on. Already going to happen in the next few months when they make cuts to the Newham routes. I don't think people are too bothered about timetables now days especially with apps. With London traffic you can't guarantee a bus will turn up the same time everyday. TfL is broke the cuts have been a long time coming unless a money tree can be found we just have to accept them.
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Post by southlondon413 on Oct 5, 2021 21:58:43 GMT
The problem with that though is you can only cut frequencies so far before you simply increase the decline itself - the 42 turning to a low frequency increase will probably simply put further people off who will look for other means outside of TfL meaning less revenue overall and potentially more cuts to other routes, including ones you may rely on. Already going to happen in the next few months when they make cuts to the Newham routes. I don't think people are too bothered about timetables now days especially with apps. With London traffic you can't guarantee a bus will turn up the same time everyday. TfL is broke the cuts have been a long time coming unless a money tree can be found we just have to accept them. Cuts are inevitable, yes, but ultimately we need buses to feed passengers to higher revenue earning tube and rail lines. Cutting too much means that passengers will just give up on buses and rather than wait a few minutes more will just Uber it to their feeder destination. TfL is asking for billions for another bailout but how much will realistically go into maintaining or improving bus services, virtually nothing. It’s only a matter of time before TfL begin cutting buses in the suburbs and it will hurt their bottom line at stations in the outer zones.
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Post by LondonNorthern on Oct 5, 2021 22:08:25 GMT
Already going to happen in the next few months when they make cuts to the Newham routes. I don't think people are too bothered about timetables now days especially with apps. With London traffic you can't guarantee a bus will turn up the same time everyday. TfL is broke the cuts have been a long time coming unless a money tree can be found we just have to accept them. Cuts are inevitable, yes, but ultimately we need buses to feed passengers to higher revenue earning tube and rail lines. Cutting too much means that passengers will just give up on buses and rather than wait a few minutes more will just Uber it to their feeder destination. TfL is asking for billions for another bailout but how much will realistically go into maintaining or improving bus services, virtually nothing. It’s only a matter of time before TfL begin cutting buses in the suburbs and it will hurt their bottom line at stations in the outer zones. Someone like Roger French would make a great leader for TFL leaving the pandemic! Under B&H he clearly knew his stuff and his knowledge is extensive
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Post by vjaska on Oct 5, 2021 22:54:35 GMT
The problem with that though is you can only cut frequencies so far before you simply increase the decline itself - the 42 turning to a low frequency increase will probably simply put further people off who will look for other means outside of TfL meaning less revenue overall and potentially more cuts to other routes, including ones you may rely on. Already going to happen in the next few months when they make cuts to the Newham routes. I don't think people are too bothered about timetables now days especially with apps. With London traffic you can't guarantee a bus will turn up the same time everyday. TfL is broke the cuts have been a long time coming unless a money tree can be found we just have to accept them. Regardless of whether people use a timetable or not, your bus will take longer to arrive because the frequency has decreased and in that time, you could potentially call a minicab or book an Uber for instance or if a local journey, potentially ride a cycle or scooter to the destination which brings no revenue to TfL so will continue to be broke or not far off.
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Post by benbldn on Oct 6, 2021 1:42:48 GMT
People seem surprised by the cuts when they are announced but we knew they were coming and will be lots more. In the scheme of things they could be a lot worse a route going from 8 mins to 10 mins is not that much of a hardship and makes some decent savings! even the 42 going 15 mins from 12 mins is only 3 mins difference. The issue with freq reductions is longer gaps between buses causes more crowds to build up leading to longer loading and unloading times and more overcrowded buses. Sure it's not a hardship a route going from 8 to 10 mins but for a service like the 42 especially with the frequency it currently has at the moment if reduced to 15 minutes it could be a difference between a turn up and go service and a more infrequent service. Yeah The busiest sections of the 42 are between Old Kent Road and Camberwell Green from what I've seen - and that's the only link you can really get between those 2 spots so esp in the peaks buses may get rammed.
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Post by benbldn on Oct 6, 2021 1:45:40 GMT
Already going to happen in the next few months when they make cuts to the Newham routes. I don't think people are too bothered about timetables now days especially with apps. With London traffic you can't guarantee a bus will turn up the same time everyday. TfL is broke the cuts have been a long time coming unless a money tree can be found we just have to accept them. Regardless of whether people use a timetable or not, your bus will take longer to arrive because the frequency has decreased and in that time, you could potentially call a minicab or book an Uber for instance or if a local journey, potentially ride a cycle or scooter to the destination which brings no revenue to TfL so will continue to be broke or not far off. And that's the problem - This is TfL's competition rn and I think it'll get more intense in the coming years as people look for convenience with more travel choices.
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Post by LondonNorthern on Oct 6, 2021 6:20:44 GMT
Regardless of whether people use a timetable or not, your bus will take longer to arrive because the frequency has decreased and in that time, you could potentially call a minicab or book an Uber for instance or if a local journey, potentially ride a cycle or scooter to the destination which brings no revenue to TfL so will continue to be broke or not far off. And that's the problem - This is TfL's competition rn and I think it'll get more intense in the coming years as people look for convenience with more travel choices. Agreed, some frequency on services were peepoor even long before COVID.
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Post by LondonNorthern on Oct 6, 2021 18:26:52 GMT
I'm not sure that the 42 needed double deckers and from what I've seen the East Dulwich extension has never been particularly well used. Maybe if the 42 swapped allocation with the 355 it could continue at the current frequency? Yeah The busiest sections of the 42 are between Old Kent Road and Camberwell Green from what I've seen - and that's the only link you can really get between those 2 spots so esp in the peaks buses may get rammed. How about this: 45 rerouted at Camberwell to run to Liverpool Street via route 42. 42 rerouted to run to Limehouse, Burdett Road via the route shown in the map. 42 single decked using MEC's off the 358 and/or a decking of the 355. Nothing attached and I doubt none of that needs to happen
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Post by WH241 on Oct 6, 2021 19:09:52 GMT
I'm not sure that the 42 needed double deckers and from what I've seen the East Dulwich extension has never been particularly well used. Maybe if the 42 swapped allocation with the 355 it could continue at the current frequency? Yeah The busiest sections of the 42 are between Old Kent Road and Camberwell Green from what I've seen - and that's the only link you can really get between those 2 spots so esp in the peaks buses may get rammed. How about this: 45 rerouted at Camberwell to run to Liverpool Street via route 42. 42 rerouted to run to Limehouse, Burdett Road via the route shown in the map. 42 single decked using MEC's off the 358 and/or a decking of the 355. If a bus route is being reduced in frequency where is the money coming from to extend it? What benefit is there to another route from Limehouse to Aldgate when we already have the 15,115 and 135? Anyone wanting to head further south can change buses using the hopper fare at Aldgate.
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Post by capitalomnibus on Oct 6, 2021 20:09:45 GMT
The issue with freq reductions is longer gaps between buses causes more crowds to build up leading to longer loading and unloading times and more overcrowded buses. Sure it's not a hardship a route going from 8 to 10 mins but for a service like the 42 especially with the frequency it currently has at the moment if reduced to 15 minutes it could be a difference between a turn up and go service and a more infrequent service. But what else can be done to make savings? The good days are over. People say how busy the tube is now me included so less and less are using buses! I last used a bus in July or August! Can't have half empty buses running around. But then we also have half empty tubes and trains and they are not being cut. During the pandemic was worst, I rode underground trains with me being the only person in the carriage, even in zone 1. Even now since the recovery I have been on the Victoria line, Hammersmith & City, Metropolitan, Circle, TfL Rail, with virtually empty carriages. But they would never have the balls to cut these services. I would say a lot of routes need to have the evening services scaled down. This is where the problem is, with plenty of empty buses and too high a frequency. Some of them are also running past 1am when they do not need to. The evening duties pay at a higher rate and would also cost more money. I remember when the cuts started about 4 years ago with the W12 dropping from a 20 min headway to 30 mins. That to me is an ultimate turn off and I stopped using the route. I would rather use the 257 and W14/W13 or 123 and W13/W14. I simply do not have the time to wait that long for a bus, and even worse if it broke down involved in RTC etc. then automatically that is 1 hour.
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Post by capitalomnibus on Oct 6, 2021 20:10:12 GMT
Some of the recent ones with 149, 19, I think I may have posted in the Arriva thread. If not I would repost. It is not suprise, there are more routes up for reductions and to be honest, some just do not seem to be thought through properly at all. Have only located N149 change details, nothing about day time 149 or 19 .... unless not in upcoming changes thread. Always find those posts informative and useful. Oh, I would post it then
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Post by capitalomnibus on Oct 6, 2021 20:12:32 GMT
I'm not sure that the 42 needed double deckers and from what I've seen the East Dulwich extension has never been particularly well used. Maybe if the 42 swapped allocation with the 355 it could continue at the current frequency? The 42 was getting very busy before it got converted to deckers. I remember seeing people being left behind on Old Kent Rd and on Tower Bridge rd unable to get on. it has lost a lot of patronage, but this is also down to never ending roadworks and cycle warfare in Central London. The 78 has also had the same problem where people have deserted it.
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Post by greenboy on Oct 6, 2021 20:44:40 GMT
I'm not sure that the 42 needed double deckers and from what I've seen the East Dulwich extension has never been particularly well used. Maybe if the 42 swapped allocation with the 355 it could continue at the current frequency? The 42 was getting very busy before it got converted to deckers. I remember seeing people being left behind on Old Kent Rd and on Tower Bridge rd unable to get on. it has lost a lot of patronage, but this is also down to never ending roadworks and cycle warfare in Central London. The 78 has also had the same problem where people have deserted it. I suspect London Overground took a lot of custom from the 42, Shoreditch to Denmark Hill in about half the time. I can't help thinking that the 42 would be better to keep the current frequency with single deckers, swap allocation with the 286 or 355, than a reduction to 4bph. Or maybe the East Dulwich section should be reduced or even withdrawn?
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Post by LondonNorthern on Oct 6, 2021 21:03:43 GMT
The 42 was getting very busy before it got converted to deckers. I remember seeing people being left behind on Old Kent Rd and on Tower Bridge rd unable to get on. it has lost a lot of patronage, but this is also down to never ending roadworks and cycle warfare in Central London. The 78 has also had the same problem where people have deserted it. I suspect London Overground took a lot of custom from the 42, Shoreditch to Denmark Hill in about half the time. I can't help thinking that the 42 would be better to keep the current frequency with single deckers, swap allocation with the 286 or 355, than a reduction to 4bph. Or maybe the East Dulwich section should be reduced or even withdrawn? Sorry if I'm wrong but isn't Liverpool Street/Tower Bridge in the Central London ULEZ?
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