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Post by LondonNorthern on Oct 13, 2021 20:13:06 GMT
I would suspect the 333 would go, there are a few other options from E&C to Brixton, Streatham and Tooting plus the hopper ticket would make the current journey easy enough through current connections. As much as I hate the concept of the hopper ticket no doubt it will form the basis of larger bus decisions by TfL for years to come. Im not sure the 57 could cope without the 333 thou. There has always been 2 routes along that stretch (57/77/95/133/181). Agreed, Tooting to Brixton Hill/Brixton then loses a direct link and since the LTNs I doubt the 355 is much help.
It also had 6+ million journeys in 2019-20, so I think the 333 is still very much needed in the wider perspective, especially with the reduction in frequencies on the 59/133, which inevitably reduces frequency down the Brixton Hill.
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Post by southlondonbus on Oct 13, 2021 20:44:29 GMT
Sorry if I'm being pessimistic but I can't help feeling the whole review with a panel of different people was a bit of a whitewash and decisions had already been made of the way forward. I may be wrong but it almost could be used as a way of validating things in the future.
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Post by LondonNorthern on Oct 13, 2021 20:57:36 GMT
Sorry if I'm being pessimistic but I can't help feeling the whole review with a panel of different people was a bit of a whitewash and decisions had already been made of the way forward. I may be wrong but it almost could be used as a way of validating things in the future. Maybe I'm being optimistic but I don't actually think a lot of what was in that document was particularly true especially as it wasn't found through a leaked document like the 48 withdrawal was and it hasn't been publicly announced over 6 months after all the rumours came about.
I wouldn't doubt some were thought about, especially as the 148 was thought about regarding a merger with the 45 but it was swiftly pushed under the rug after considerations. The 168 I think we are still waiting to hear from regarding it's future.
Also, I don't think Twitter is exactly a reliable source of information?
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Post by vjaska on Oct 13, 2021 22:41:57 GMT
If one of the four routes between E&C and Kennington has to go I would think it's between the 333 and 415. The round the corner OKR link is probably nice to have but it's a fairly easy change of bus at E&C without it. I would suspect the 333 would go, there are a few other options from E&C to Brixton, Streatham and Tooting plus the hopper ticket would make the current journey easy enough through current connections. As much as I hate the concept of the hopper ticket no doubt it will form the basis of larger bus decisions by TfL for years to come. There are good reasons why multiple options to Elephant exist, same with Streatham to Tooting. Neither the 333 or 415 should be up for consideration as both are very useful but if one is, the 415 would likely go. The 201 is not able enough to support the 57 on its own whether you bump up the 57 or not hence why 333 loads are usually heavy at the first stop
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Post by Unorm on Oct 13, 2021 23:27:48 GMT
The 415 shouldn't be fully axed, I think it was a sensible idea introducing a third route back in 2008 down the Tulse Hill with the 432 reduced because loadings were clearly quite high down there, however the 432 has now been re-increased and I imagine the Southern Rail strikes changed people's travel patterns (which is probably what caused the 432 to be re-increased)
It was actually the 2019 outer London frequency increases which saw the 249, 289 along with some other routes have a frequency increase, seeing both 249 and 432 revert to their original frequencies. As for Kennington to Elephant there may be a thinning if only for the reason to free up stand space at Elephant. Either the 155 or 333 become more local routes and terminate at Stockwell Station? The 333 wouldn't go well with a cutback to Stockwell given it's handy Clapham Road to Brixton round-the-corner link it's established. As for 155 it would defeat it's purpose given Elephant & Castle is a major traffic objective even in spite of paralleling the Northern Line but I digress. The 2 has now cut thou so had probably balanced out the 432 increase. The only other option would be to send something else to Tulse Hill (bit loopy but a DD 355 could maintain capacity between Brixton and Tulse Hill Station. A 355 diverted away from Brixton Station might not be much considering the 37 is also a stone's throw from it but I would argue that a 355 that goes Tulse Hill doing the function of both Tulse Hill flow to Brixton in addition to the flow built up west of Clapham Park heading to Brixton that doesn't stop outside Brixton Station as both 355 and say the 415 do (except only northbound still) to be a little off-putting to say the least. Whilst the 37 does that cross-Brixton pattern it is somewhat assisted. I admit my argument is also a bit flawed by the current stop arrangement of southbound Effra Road routes not stopping outside the station but 35/355 still do. There would still be the 201 to Southcroft Road to support the 57 and then the 127 on Southcroft Road itself to slop up any passengers to Tooting. A minor frequency increase on the 57 would solve any problems though and also support usage on the Raynes Park to Kingston section. Even if the 201 was made double deck with a frequency increase tomorrow it wouldn't be enough to support the removal of the 333 (nor the 57 whom shares the same frequency) from the corridor since the 201 largely has to deal with the popular Mitcham-Streatham demand not exactly satiated by a low frequency 201 as it is. Not to mention two 6bph routes to Tooting which are regularly full up at Tooting heading eastwards and likewise become full up at Streatham heading to Tooting. To make matters worse for the corridor the 57 did have a frequency decrease a while back dropping from every 8 to every 10. So if we're being optimal an every 6-7 mins 57 might be fine on-paper but doesn't count for the lack of a Brixton link (I guess Hopper fare exists, change at Streatham) nor lack of capacity on Brixton Hill (which Hopper fare won't solve). That would be catastrophic in tandem with 133's peak frequency nearly halving in the coming days compared to the start of the year. Long story short the 57/333 being separate provides a good function
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Post by M1104 on Oct 15, 2021 11:26:42 GMT
If one of the four routes between E&C and Kennington has to go I would think it's between the 333 and 415. The round the corner OKR link is probably nice to have but it's a fairly easy change of bus at E&C without it. I would suspect the 333 would go, there are a few other options from E&C to Brixton, Streatham and Tooting plus the hopper ticket would make the current journey easy enough through current connections. As much as I hate the concept of the hopper ticket no doubt it will form the basis of larger bus decisions by TfL for years to come. Do you mean withdraw the 333 entirely or just between Elephant & Castle and Kennington?
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Post by BE37054 (quoll662) on Oct 22, 2021 14:25:53 GMT
If anyone has any information regarding PVR cuts that have happened this month or are due to happen next month, I would really appreciate it if you could share it here with me.
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Post by VMH2537 on Oct 22, 2021 14:27:36 GMT
If anyone has any information regarding PVR cuts that have happened this month or are due to happen next month, I would really appreciate it if you could share it here with me. Would be best to do a FOI to TFL, they may hold a document of the overall service review
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Post by BE37054 (quoll662) on Oct 22, 2021 14:57:15 GMT
If anyone has any information regarding PVR cuts that have happened this month or are due to happen next month, I would really appreciate it if you could share it here with me. Would be best to do a FOI to TFL, they may hold a document of the overall service review I have done so. Thank you for your suggestion.
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Post by capitalomnibus on Oct 22, 2021 23:50:55 GMT
If anyone has any information regarding PVR cuts that have happened this month or are due to happen next month, I would really appreciate it if you could share it here with me. Just look at the upcoming changes thread
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Post by snowman on Oct 23, 2021 5:45:23 GMT
If anyone has any information regarding PVR cuts that have happened this month or are due to happen next month, I would really appreciate it if you could share it here with me. Just look at the upcoming changes thread Frequency cuts from today on 19, 42, 68, 88, 133, 149 Next weekend sees cut on A10 13 is due to be cut on 13 November from 10 buses per hour to 7 per hour
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Post by MetrolineGA1511 on Oct 23, 2021 21:40:41 GMT
I still wouldn't be surprised if there were schemes going back to 2019 where TFL were planning another round of changes similar to the 2018 central London changes. As for people funding alternatives I'm sure that is what they want. Cheaper in the long run to pit people on the tube with its capacity levels already and effectively could save between now and 2030-34 as much as 1000 less zero emission buses. I think you may be right. Routes in Central London and parts of Inner London that parallel Underground or frequent train services for long distances I see as very vulnerable to cuts/withdrawal - routes like the 155, for example. In particular, while Underground usage is only around 70% of pre-pandemic levels, there is capacity for quite a few passengers to transfer from parellel bus routes to the Underground. Admittedly buses have the advantage of sometimes being direct when the Underground is not, and avoid the need to go down then up log escalators.
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Post by danorak on Oct 25, 2021 18:44:44 GMT
This is an interesting tweet from the Lead Member for Planning, Place and The Environment for the Royal Borough of Kensington and Chelsea.
The separate reference to 'planned changes to route 19' make me wonder whether the earlier proposals are being revived in some form.
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Post by greenboy on Oct 25, 2021 19:05:57 GMT
This is an interesting tweet from the Lead Member for Planning, Place and The Environment for the Royal Borough of Kensington and Chelsea. The separate reference to 'planned changes to route 19' make me wonder whether the earlier proposals are being revived in some form. There is an acknowledgement that decisions must be taken urgently. I wouldn't be surprised if the 19 proposal is revisited although both the 19 and 22 have had reductions since.
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Post by TB123 on Oct 25, 2021 19:07:26 GMT
This is an interesting tweet from the Lead Member for Planning, Place and The Environment for the Royal Borough of Kensington and Chelsea. The separate reference to 'planned changes to route 19' make me wonder whether the earlier proposals are being revived in some form. He best CC in his own Tory Transport Secretary who has mandated such draconian cuts at TfL as a condition of funding deals. But hey, gotta disregard facts to score that goal. The changes he's referencing to are a cut in frequency on the 19 from every 8 to every 10 mins
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