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Post by greenboy on Feb 28, 2022 15:10:47 GMT
There was the headline earlier in the week about bus route cuts with the picture of the LT on route 453. Maybe route 453 could be replaced by extensions of route 12 to Marylebone (suggested by other people before) and route 321 to Elephant & Castle (and maybe route 343 or P13 to Deptford). Neither route 12 nor 321 would be much if any longer than route 468 for example. 453 is a very busy route, shouldn't be withdrawn. Don't tell me it's because a 4xx route "shouldn't" be serving Central London or that because it got split by the 53. Yes some route might duplicate it but that doesn't undermine it's importance. The 4xx route number is irrelevant but we'll just have to wait and see what future it has. The idea suggested of extending the 321 to Elephant & Castle certainly isn't beyond the realms of possibility and maybe the 53 would be returned to Trafalgar Square at least?
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Post by vjaska on Feb 28, 2022 15:35:58 GMT
453 is a very busy route, shouldn't be withdrawn. Don't tell me it's because a 4xx route "shouldn't" be serving Central London or that because it got split by the 53. Yes some route might duplicate it but that doesn't undermine it's importance. The 4xx route number is irrelevant but we'll just have to wait and see what future it has. The idea suggested of extending the 321 to Elephant & Castle certainly isn't beyond the realms of possibility and maybe the 53 would be returned to Trafalgar Square at least? The 321 & 53 extensions are not feasible in the slightest - why should 321 passengers suffer a less reliable service in return for a no benefit withdrawal of the 453. You don’t seem to grab the concept that people are leaving the network because buses take too long yet once again, it’s 1970 & 80’s policies your proposing
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Post by southlondonbus on Feb 28, 2022 17:13:09 GMT
The 4xx route number is irrelevant but we'll just have to wait and see what future it has. The idea suggested of extending the 321 to Elephant & Castle certainly isn't beyond the realms of possibility and maybe the 53 would be returned to Trafalgar Square at least? The 321 & 53 extensions are not feasible in the slightest - why should 321 passengers suffer a less reliable service in return for a no benefit withdrawal of the 453. You don’t seem to grab the concept that people are leaving the network because buses take too long yet once again, it’s 1970 & 80’s policies your proposing The 53 managed for years up to Whitehall so I think it could survive again up to there and certainly would be welcome by the people of Charlton and Blackheath.
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Post by WH241 on Feb 28, 2022 17:18:07 GMT
The 321 & 53 extensions are not feasible in the slightest - why should 321 passengers suffer a less reliable service in return for a no benefit withdrawal of the 453. You don’t seem to grab the concept that people are leaving the network because buses take too long yet once again, it’s 1970 & 80’s policies your proposing The 53 managed for years up to Whitehall so I think it could survive again up to there and certainly would be welcome by the people of Charlton and Blackheath. The 53 had the support of the 453 where as here it’s being suggested the 453 is withdrawn so how do we know for sure the 53 would cope alone?
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Post by abellion on Feb 28, 2022 17:54:19 GMT
The 53 managed for years up to Whitehall so I think it could survive again up to there and certainly would be welcome by the people of Charlton and Blackheath. The 53 had the support of the 453 where as here it’s being suggested the 453 is withdrawn so how do we know for sure the 53 would cope alone? There is really no way the 53 could cope without the 453. Even if it got increased that could possibly overbus the far southern end and that doesn't account for the bit between Whitehall and Oxford Circus
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Post by greenboy on Feb 28, 2022 17:55:51 GMT
The 321 & 53 extensions are not feasible in the slightest - why should 321 passengers suffer a less reliable service in return for a no benefit withdrawal of the 453. You don’t seem to grab the concept that people are leaving the network because buses take too long yet once again, it’s 1970 & 80’s policies your proposing The 53 managed for years up to Whitehall so I think it could survive again up to there and certainly would be welcome by the people of Charlton and Blackheath. Indeed and another possible option would be to reroute the 53 to Aldwych and the 172 to Oxford Circus. In the long term I'd rather money was spent on the Bakerloo Line extension to Lewisham.
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Post by southlondonbus on Feb 28, 2022 18:09:05 GMT
The 53 managed for years up to Whitehall so I think it could survive again up to there and certainly would be welcome by the people of Charlton and Blackheath. Indeed and another possible option would be to reroute the 53 to Aldwych and the 172 to Oxford Circus. In the long term I'd rather money was spent on the Bakerloo Line extension to Lewisham. I definitely think the 172 could do more. The Aldwych end doesn't seem to attract much custom along that stretch. Quite understandable when all the other routes along that stretch head up to Holborn, Euston and beyond so a diversion back into the City replacing maybe the 40 or over the 453.
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Post by twobellstogo on Feb 28, 2022 19:08:30 GMT
The 4xx route number is irrelevant but we'll just have to wait and see what future it has. The idea suggested of extending the 321 to Elephant & Castle certainly isn't beyond the realms of possibility and maybe the 53 would be returned to Trafalgar Square at least? The 321 & 53 extensions are not feasible in the slightest - why should 321 passengers suffer a less reliable service in return for a no benefit withdrawal of the 453. You don’t seem to grab the concept that people are leaving the network because buses take too long yet once again, it’s 1970 & 80’s policies your proposing The upcoming loss of the 168 on the Old Kent Road should ensure the 453’s survival. One thing I can see happening though is an extension to Lewisham from New Cross (with maybe the 21 falling back to NX). Am thinking that if Greenwich has to lose all its terminating routes that the Deptford Bridge terminal might be quite useful for the 286.
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Post by vjaska on Feb 28, 2022 19:09:56 GMT
The 321 & 53 extensions are not feasible in the slightest - why should 321 passengers suffer a less reliable service in return for a no benefit withdrawal of the 453. You don’t seem to grab the concept that people are leaving the network because buses take too long yet once again, it’s 1970 & 80’s policies your proposing The 53 managed for years up to Whitehall so I think it could survive again up to there and certainly would be welcome by the people of Charlton and Blackheath. Traffic has been increasing all the time and especially since the pandemic and couple that with no 453 and a longer and less reliable 321, I don’t see it working at all. The other member seems very confused given he was suggesting the 53 should be cut to Elephant but all of a sudden now it should be extended to Trafalgar Square. What people of Charlton & Blackheath might appreciate is the 53 diverting to Lambeth Palace for a better link to Tommies
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Post by southlondonbus on Feb 28, 2022 19:59:51 GMT
The 53 managed for years up to Whitehall so I think it could survive again up to there and certainly would be welcome by the people of Charlton and Blackheath. Traffic has been increasing all the time and especially since the pandemic and couple that with no 453 and a longer and less reliable 321, I don’t see it working at all. The other member seems very confused given he was suggesting the 53 should be cut to Elephant but all of a sudden now it should be extended to Trafalgar Square. What people of Charlton & Blackheath might appreciate is the 53 diverting to Lambeth Palace for a better link to Tommies I think the 53 and 453 will survive as they are as the current structure was arguably thought up as far back as 1999 except the numbers were round the other way then. The only change I can see is if the 453 remains every 6-7 mins and the 12 drops to every 10 mins then the Oxo to Marylebone section may swap to save a bit of money.
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Post by DT 11 on Feb 28, 2022 22:45:23 GMT
The 321 & 53 extensions are not feasible in the slightest - why should 321 passengers suffer a less reliable service in return for a no benefit withdrawal of the 453. You don’t seem to grab the concept that people are leaving the network because buses take too long yet once again, it’s 1970 & 80’s policies your proposing The 53 managed for years up to Whitehall so I think it could survive again up to there and certainly would be welcome by the people of Charlton and Blackheath. 53 is more reliable at the County Hall terminus. I remember using the 53 in the past and it was not uncommon for buses on return from Whitehall to be curtailed to Woolwich then run light to PD. Nothing stopping people from changing at Deptford or Lambeth North to continue journey. In addition the amount of 20 Zones in London doesn’t help either.
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Post by DT 11 on Feb 28, 2022 22:52:40 GMT
The 321 & 53 extensions are not feasible in the slightest - why should 321 passengers suffer a less reliable service in return for a no benefit withdrawal of the 453. You don’t seem to grab the concept that people are leaving the network because buses take too long yet once again, it’s 1970 & 80’s policies your proposing The upcoming loss of the 168 on the Old Kent Road should ensure the 453’s survival. One thing I can see happening though is an extension to Lewisham from New Cross (with maybe the 21 falling back to NX). Am thinking that if Greenwich has to lose all its terminating routes that the Deptford Bridge terminal might be quite useful for the 286. I can’t see the 21 getting cut to New Cross to be honest. If anything I would expect the 436 to go, pretty much duplicates other, diverting the 453 to Lewisham was suggested in the past too. Only thing about the 436 is the direct link between Lewisham and Vauxhall going back as far as when the 36 operated over two overlapping sections between Lewisham and Queens Park
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Post by redbus on Mar 1, 2022 22:22:39 GMT
Tube strike today - buses absolutely rammed full. Passengers left at stops. Seems much worse than on previous tube strike of the past and many worked at home today. I suspect that the 300 PVR bus cuts have made today as much of misery for many as the tube strike itself.
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Post by vjaska on Mar 1, 2022 22:39:30 GMT
Tube strike today - buses absolutely rammed full. Passengers left at stops. Seems much worse than on previous tube strike of the past and many worked at home today. I suspect that the 300 PVR bus cuts have made today as much of misery for many as the tube strike itself. I have to admit, I was quite surprised there was more disruption this time compared to previously so I’m happy to say I was very wrong this time 😉 Finsbury Park was quite badly hit from what I’ve heard
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Post by thesquirrels on Mar 1, 2022 22:41:55 GMT
Tube strike today - buses absolutely rammed full. Passengers left at stops. Seems much worse than on previous tube strike of the past and many worked at home today. I suspect that the 300 PVR bus cuts have made today as much of misery for many as the tube strike itself. It has been really noticeable. With the spare capacity stripped out the buses have been absolutely hammered today. Extras have been laid on but not to the same extent as in the past. I assume spare drivers are harder to come by now. Went out on a lunchtime walk around Holborn and even in the middle of the day buses were absolutely stuffed and sitting in gridlocked traffic. It has felt more like the strikes of the 1990s and early 2000s, pre con charge, when information on alternative/still running services were not readily available, and everyone surged for the buses and brought their cars in. With the various road closures in Central London today and associated spillover traffic today has easily the highest level of disruption I've seen on a strike day in 20 years. Not looking forward to Thursday at all.
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